What's new

Match-Up Discussion - Cyber Sub-Zero Make Em Block Til They Stop, Official Cyber Sub-Zero Matchup Discussion Thread

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Piercing mileena feels rough. B12 checks all your close options and only a perfectly timed b2 seems to get you out. At midrange she can just roll under f2 for free and at far rangeshe can just low sai underneath iceball and tele on reaction. Am I missing something to this mu?
i don't know the MU for this one either yet, but i'd imagine you need to make good reads with dive kicks and slides to get some respect. Definitely seems like she would outzone csz. make good use of ex slide to get in.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Piercing mileena feels rough. B12 checks all your close options and only a perfectly timed b2 seems to get you out. At midrange she can just roll under f2 for free and at far rangeshe can just low sai underneath iceball and tele on reaction. Am I missing something to this mu?
you always have to respect her roll, and bait it. then let her kill her self
 
you always have to respect her roll, and bait it. then let her kill her self
that seems fine against lower level players, but against good mileenas, they're not gonna throw that out. I'm talking about her just neutral ducking the f2 and using the recovery frames to punish with roll.
 
i don't know the MU for this one either yet, but i'd imagine you need to make good reads with dive kicks and slides to get some respect. Definitely seems like she would outzone csz. make good use of ex slide to get in.
unfortunately unless divekicks are perfectly placed she gets a free punish, same for slide. The risk reward does not seem to be in his favor.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
that seems fine against lower level players, but against good mileenas, they're not gonna throw that out. I'm talking about her just neutral ducking the f2 and using the recovery frames to punish with roll.
thats what i was saying Bait... you can bait High level players to step out of turn, i do it all the time. just look through her move list and find the few unsafe moves she uses in gamne , and bait them out.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Cyber Sub-Zero vs. GM Sub-Zero MU, f2 shuts clone down crippling GM's neutral and space control. Fridge has the better ice ball and overall zoning, but will eventually have to deal with GM getting in using slide. No doubt GM's d4 will shit on Triborg.

Good news is CSZ has an answer for GM's corner game. Wake up bomb/ ex bomb will ruin his set play if he hesitates for even a moment. If GM continues his combo, he'll be frozen. At best he's forced to back off and thus, doesn't get f12~ clone.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
CSZ vs Possessed Kenshi
- b2 on reaction to teleport punishes clean
- heavy zoning can be hard countered with ex ice beam
Gonna add this and a few other character things to the OP tomorrow with spoiler tags per MU. Was a crazy weekend so I got sidetracked.
 

DanableLector

UPR DanableLector
Mileena seems to be a tough match up. It could be 5-5 and just feel bad because she's a really good character, but after playing a handful of high level Mileenas I can see where her movesets presents issues. Ethereal, and piercing are real assholes. Looking at a possible 6-4.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Might as well post this here, too. Smoke cloud isn't punishable, but Smoke can't safely string into it. You can jump out of any (starter) xx cloud and NJP for an easy midscreen set up (~50%). This forces him to either use meter for ex smoke bomb, which we cannot jump out of, or opt for (starter) xx trident, which will catch our jump out attempt, but also disable his ability to standing reset. That and trident is crazy unsafe.

 

TyCarter35

Bonafide Jax scrub
Ninjitsu Scorpion vs CSZ seems to be one of CSZ's tougher matchups because ninjitsu can actually punish CSZ's dive kick with f2 and b2 and CSZ has a horrible neutral game which Ninjitsu excels at, however, should Ninjitsu be cornered his only option is Ex teleport to get out and hope the player doesn't expect it. Looks like a 6-4 and MAYBE a 5-5 matchup
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Ninjitsu Scorpion vs CSZ seems to be one of CSZ's tougher matchups because ninjitsu can actually punish CSZ's dive kick with f2 and b2 and CSZ has a horrible neutral game which Ninjitsu excels at, however, should Ninjitsu be cornered his only option is Ex teleport to get out and hope the player doesn't expect it. Looks like a 6-4 and MAYBE a 5-5 matchup
Use MB bomb in the corner and you won't have to guess! His combo will land his feets in the puddle.
 

babalook

Noob
Use MB bomb in the corner and you won't have to guess! His combo will land his feets in the puddle.
this will only work once on a good player, though, if they know the matchups, not to mention they could alter the combo to avoid the puddle or just back off after it hits. I've found that doing a jump in punch after the close bomb corner setup will cause the first hit of EX tele to whiff and the jip will hit them out of the second hit, also, if they try EX takedown it will whiff and you can run up and punish. Additionally, if you use EX bomb and do a jip expecting a wake-up but they don't wake-up, b1 2+3, b3d4u3, and throw will all put them into the ice puddle, so you can still enforce a mixup even though you guessed wrong.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
this will only work once on a good player, though, if they know the matchups, not to mention they could alter the combo to avoid the puddle or just back off after it hits. I've found that doing a jump in punch after the close bomb corner setup will cause the first hit of EX tele to whiff and the jip will hit them out of the second hit, also, if they try EX takedown it will whiff and you can run up and punish. Additionally, if you use EX bomb and do a jip expecting a wake-up but they don't wake-up, b1 2+3, b3d4u3, and throw will all put them into the ice puddle, so you can still enforce a mixup even though you guessed wrong.
I really like the jip, b3d4u3 into the puddle. That sounds like a great option.
 

babalook

Noob
i would just like to say fuck erron black. If you get him to the corner and he has meter, not only do you have to read if he'll wake up or not, you also have to guess which wake up he'll use (slide or sand grab). Has anyone found a way to counter both aside from d3/1 EX slide which is kinda shit since it doesn't always refreeze? He can also punish ice ball from almost full screen with slide and, like most characters, his normals aren't shit so when he gets in you're fucked.
 

xXxNasHxXx

Mighty Champion of EarthRealm
Might as well post this here, too. Smoke cloud isn't punishable, but Smoke can't safely string into it. You can jump out of any (starter) xx cloud and NJP for an easy midscreen set up (~50%). This forces him to either use meter for ex smoke bomb, which we cannot jump out of, or opt for (starter) xx trident, which will catch our jump out attempt, but also disable his ability to standing reset. That and trident is crazy unsafe.

Thanks for the tips bro. I was having a tough time dealing with the Smoke cloud but now I can deal with it easily. Thanks.
 

Bender

Product Manager. xBone tag: I3end3r.
I think Wargod Koto is the toughest MU thus far. He controls the neutral game better close up and mid screen, and is always in CS0's face who has underwhelming wakeup options.

Imposter is tough once you get caught, but B2 (reversed inputs) blows up his teleport every time, which limits his mobility.

Other than that, some of the rushdown characters have been giving me trouble (Cage in particular), but I'm not sure they're bad MU's.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
i would just like to say fuck erron black. If you get him to the corner and he has meter, not only do you have to read if he'll wake up or not, you also have to guess which wake up he'll use (slide or sand grab). Has anyone found a way to counter both aside from d3/1 EX slide which is kinda shit since it doesn't always refreeze? He can also punish ice ball from almost full screen with slide and, like most characters, his normals aren't shit so when he gets in you're fucked.
I experienced this MU yesterday. It's a really tough one. In a zoning war, my EX ice beam was actually stopped mid air instead of trading... Is that how beams work NRS? They just fade away...

EDIT: I hit the lab vs Gunslinger. Corner game is altered slightly, and awkwardly. Normal corner set up > bomb, instant NJK is a cover all option.

  • Wake up mb slide shots/ mb quick sand - NJK hits for unscaled 7%, leaving enough time to whiff punish and set up again.
  • Wake up to block - NJK will jail to bomb, which will jail to an honest 50/50.
  • If NJK whiffs due to delayed WU, land and throw into bomb. Timing is tight, but possible.
The only option "out" really, is delayed WU > jump. But using delayed WU is basically what we want from them. Using mb cryo bomb here really seals the corner trap since it'll catch poorly timed jump outs to stray hits.
 
Last edited:

babalook

Noob
Hish qu predator is an odd MU too, he rapes you at ever range and plasma blasts recover too fast for a iceball trade. But if you get him in the corner you basically win the round because 21 stuffs his only wake-up.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Hish qu predator is an odd MU too, he rapes you at ever range and plasma blasts recover too fast for a iceball trade. But if you get him in the corner you basically win the round because 21 stuffs his only wake-up.
I feel like his MB plasma shots are pretty fast. I wonder if it's possible for him to reliably wake-up with that just to trade.

I'm also curious about MB ice beam vs Grandmaster's clone. Would ice beam blow through it, or simply stop in front of it?
 

babalook

Noob
I feel like his MB plasma shots are pretty fast. I wonder if it's possible for him to reliably wake-up with that just to trade.

I'm also curious about MB ice beam vs Grandmaster's clone. Would ice beam blow through it, or simply stop in front of it?
Ice beam breaks the clone, but does not go through it.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
I think Wargod Koto is the toughest MU thus far. He controls the neutral game better close up and mid screen, and is always in CS0's face who has underwhelming wakeup options.
I agree that his neutral is pretty effective. But CSZ has some strats/ gimmicks here.

The breaker bomb gimmick and typical corner set-up both beat Kotals MB OH Sword (ice bomb will freeze this WU post armor frames if CSZ performs advancing normals/ strings like f13).

Also, Kotal's 114 xx whiff grab > follow-up loses to b2's options (raw b2 beats pokes, b2 xx slide beats Kotal's b1 series) in many cases.
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
Premium Supporter
How are you guys dealing with pyro Tanya? I'm a former Tanya main and new to CSZ (still in a bit of a crisis between him, smoke and sektor as I don't know who's the most well rounded out of the three and who to stick with) but she seems to avoid a lot of his attacks at full and mid screen. I got blown up or interrupted/evaded a lot for doing much of anything.
Also is there some sort of mini tier chart for triborg? What order are his variants in?
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
How are you guys dealing with pyro Tanya? I'm a former Tanya main and new to CSZ (still in a bit of a crisis between him, smoke and sektor as I don't know who's the most well rounded out of the three and who to stick with) but she seems to avoid a lot of his attacks at full and mid screen. I got blown up or interrupted/evaded a lot for doing much of anything.
Also is there some sort of mini tier chart for triborg? What order are his variants in?
If you're on PSN, I'll flesh out the Tanya MU with you, if you'll play Tanya.