What's new

Match-Up Discussion - Cyber Sub-Zero Make Em Block Til They Stop, Official Cyber Sub-Zero Matchup Discussion Thread

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
Smoke is also the one character that has 0 problems in the corner against Cyber Sub since EX Phase for him is free get out of jail free card
This is actually really easy to punish, just do a slightly delayed 111xxiceball and you'll catch him before he recovers on the other side.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
@SaltShaker can you possibly add "spoiler" tabs for all the characters and add match up info as you receive it? I'd hate to hunt through 60 pages to learn MU specific knowledge like "21 breaks Predators armor on wake-up, also leads to +2 tic throw into bomb," or something like that.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
@SaltShaker can you possibly add "spoiler" tabs for all the characters and add match up info as you receive it? I'd hate to hunt through 60 pages to learn MU specific knowledge like "21 breaks Predators armor on wake-up, also leads to +2 tic throw into bomb," or something like that.
Great idea. Will do later tonight!
 

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
I wasn't a big fan of the Smoke matchup personally. Ice Ball wins trade with smoke bomb big time, so thats awesome.. But he can react to any attempt at zoning with EX teleport. Smoke is also the one character that has 0 problems in the corner against Cyber Sub since EX Phase for him is free get out of jail free card, and I was finding Cyber Sub's NJP will whiff on him if you try to make that read too. What I ended up doing was going for bomb, then grab on reaction to EX phase and put him back into the bomb. It seemed like the one way to keep up corner pressure so I didn't need to go back to a neutral situation where I felt like Smoke won in.

Also, side note, I know Cyber Sub's midscreen neutral may be lacking, but I would not trade his F2 for anything besides Mileena prepatch B12 lol. Cyber Subs F2 is so awesomely dirty for keepaway its amazing. In my opinion it single handedly wins matchups like Bo Rai Cho and Leatherface where they have trouble getting in. Proper bomb, F2, IADK, ice ball, ice ball ex and ex bomb usage makes characters that NEED to get in have so many problems.
Actually on a good read if you do exIceBeam it'll trade and catch smoke mid tp and open for a full combo. Kept happening to me as I tried to extp punish a training partner's zoning. Same can be said for ex close iceball. Shuts down any attempt for smoke to get close.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Actually on a good read if you do exIceBeam it'll trade and catch smoke mid tp and open for a full combo. Kept happening to me as I tried to extp punish a training partner's zoning. Same can be said for ex close iceball. Shuts down any attempt for smoke to get close.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Smoke players tend to go for (starter) xx smoke bomb. Smoke bomb is hard to punish, and EX smoke bomb is +. But there's a decent sized gap before smoke bomb. Is it possible to read say, f13 xx smoke bomb and jump out after the f13? We'd get a pretty heavy punish with a jip starter.
 
He is the best robo ninja variation! From his moves, combos, specials, and brutalities! I love the metal noise when he gets hit, which is more often then I would like to admit.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
We can NJP or b2 out of every (starter) xx smoke cloud attempt Smoke makes. He can burn meter to catch us trying, but we can still back dash out or armor.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Tempest Kung Lao is free to our corner game. F4/ b3 will occupy ex spin armor, while bomb will freeze him.

B2 blows up any teleport attempt in any variation. If CSZ doesn't have stamina, instant NJP will do the trick as well. This match-up is heavily in the Fridge's favor.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
ok, when you make your oponent respect the ice ball, f2 and they start to block everything. what are you guys going for?
Zone with bombs and build drone army. A buffed freeze turns a midscreen 30% combo into 35%, basically for free. Other characters have to use meter for this kind of damage, and the chip is great too.

Any bomb that's likely to connect (block or hit) means you can slide, dive kick, or jump in to start pressure. Bomb should jail into your preferred follow-up, but if you're late going in, poke with d3 (8f, +17 on hit).
 
Zone with bombs and build drone army. A buffed freeze turns a midscreen 30% combo into 35%, basically for free. Other characters have to use meter for this kind of damage, and the chip is great too.

Any bomb that's likely to connect (block or hit) means you can slide, dive kick, or jump in to start pressure. Bomb should jail into your preferred follow-up, but if you're late going in, poke with d3 (8f, +17 on hit).
i ll try that... i didnt know csz could even slide on block and not get punished! so cool!
im using f12 ( whiffing 1) and being +2 frame trap
i have to use the drones better aswell
thank you for the reply
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
i ll try that... i didnt know csz could even slide on block and not get punished! so cool!
im using f12 ( whiffing 1) and being +2 frame trap
i have to use the drones better aswell
thank you for the reply
The intent of the previous post is for slide to whiff. Sorry for not being clear. Incidentally, if you slide early enough, the bomb will protect you from a punish.

Also, on the subject of Smoke, he can teleport out of set-ups on wake up. However, he can be grabbed out of even his ex teleport and put right back on top of the bomb. This grab is a legit punish, thus it's untechable.
 
Last edited:

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Need help in the Hellfire Scorpion MU.

Scorp D4 feels like an anti-everything tool in the neutral, I can't zone him, he can EX tele on WU out the corner if he reads I'm going for the setup, I can't jump, and the usually stuff like getting blender'd. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Didn't have much of a Prob with this MU using D'Vorah but it's beating me up with CSZ for some reason. Any advice or tips is appreciated. I feel I shouldn't be playing this as bad as I am at the moment.

@RM Ree
@themilkman014
@RYX
@Pig Of The Hut
@GiM | ZigZag
@Any CSZ users with advice
 

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
If there is anyone here on an I would love to lab the lasher match up with you to benefit both of us.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Need help in the Hellfire Scorpion MU.

Scorp D4 feels like an anti-everything tool in the neutral, I can't zone him, he can EX tele on WU out the corner if he reads I'm going for the setup, I can't jump, and the usually stuff like getting blender'd. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Didn't have much of a Prob with this MU using D'Vorah but it's beating me up with CSZ for some reason. Any advice or tips is appreciated. I feel I shouldn't be playing this as bad as I am at the moment.

@RM Ree
@themilkman014
@RYX
@Pig Of The Hut
@GiM | ZigZag
@Any CSZ users with advice
He's gonna be a tough MU any way you slice it. His footsies are strong and he's going to stay in CSZ's face. I think we have a few tools that'll keep some of his stronger options at bay though.

NJP and b2 beat most pokes after + strings. Scorpions d4 shouldn't be much different. I hope not anyway.

Use MB bomb when going for your corner set ups. If he tries to MB flameport, his combo route will land him on top of the puddle.

Stay on the ground. Scorpion players want to jump in, especially with ji3. Bait and antiair with s4 or trip guard with b2.

Keep checking him with f2 in neutral, f3 if he's going to neutral duck, and ultimately wait for him to hang himself.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
He's gonna be a tough MU any way you slice it. His footsies are strong and he's going to stay in CSZ's face. I think we have a few tools that'll keep some of his stronger options at bay though.

NJP and b2 beat most pokes after + strings. Scorpions d4 shouldn't be much different. I hope not anyway.

Use MB bomb when going for your corner set ups. If he tries to MB flameport, his combo route will land him on top of the puddle.

Stay on the ground. Scorpion players want to jump in, especially with ji3. Bait and antiair with s4 or trip guard with b2.

Keep checking him with f2 in neutral, f3 if he's going to neutral duck, and ultimately wait for him to hang himself.
Ah ok, thanks!!! Yea I think this is a MU that isn't gonna be as smooth as some of the others. Hellfire for sure.

NJP was working really good. I used it a lot. B2 wasn't working nearly as good though. Got D4'd quite a few times trying B2 and B2~cancel, but other times it worked and I got some B2~Freeze and such going. Might be a timing or range thing. F2 worked really good too.

I didn't think to use MB Bomb. Definitely gonna use that next time. Sitting on meter too much at times so that'll work. Once he gets hit with those he'll rethink his approach at least.

Yea Jumping was deathly. Between his J3 and Flame Aura there was no more jumping to be had. I got comfortable with so much air control but not in this MU.

Thanks again, gonna try to make some adjustments for next time.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
CSZ is FREE to imposter shinnok. Then again who isn't.

Imposter shinnok maybe the best character in this game. Please wait until DR, Wound Cowboy, and Calf start using these buffs in tournament.
My earlier post a while back was about Shinnok lol. Worst MU for CSZ imo in the early going.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
you think you can give some MU numbers for Cyrax and CSZ in general, and what would be the numbers for Cyrax vs CSZ


@SaltShaker @JDM

if thats at all possible on day 10
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
you think you can give some MU numbers for Cyrax and CSZ in general, and what would be the numbers for Cyrax vs CSZ


@SaltShaker @JDM

if thats at all possible on day 10
Definitely too early for MU numbers lol. Only thing I would guess on is-

Cryo Sub- adv CSZ
Cyrax- adv CSZ ( I can block the HTBs consistently, making the MU easier)
HW/Brawler Cassie- adv CSZ
Summoner Quan Chi- adv CSZ
Marksman Erron- even (fought this for hours against Raptor)
Butcher LF- even
Reptile- even
BS/Imposter Shinnok- possible worst MU
Hellfire Scorpion- possibly dis adv


Those are the MUs I've at least put in a few hours each against competent players so they're my veryyy early impressions so far.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Definitely too early for MU numbers lol. Only thing I would guess on is-

Cryo Sub- adv CSZ
Cyrax- adv CSZ ( I can block the HTBs consistently, making the MU easier)
HW/Brawler Cassie- adv CSZ
Summoner Quan Chi- adv CSZ
Marksman Erron- even (fought this for hours against Raptor)
Butcher LF- even
Reptile- even
BS/Imposter Shinnok- possible worst MU
Hellfire Scorpion- possibly dis adv


Those are the MUs I've at least put in a few hours each against competent players so they're my veryyy early impressions so far.
my Cyrax matchups (this has just been my online experience and is probably not acurate since its online)

W=wins
L= loses
E= even

Leatherface = W - ( fuck his mixups pressure and restands into unblockables)
CSZ = W - ( dominates Cyrax with his mobility)
Sektor = E - ( Sektors zoning and B2 puts cyrax in check)
Shinnok BS/Imposter = W - (Dominates cyrax)
Reptile [Noxious]= E ( but it is hard for Cyrax)
Subzero GM = L - ( cyrax takes this since the bombs go through his clone)
Erron gunslinger = E
Mileena Peircing= W- (by a slight margin)
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
I didn't imagine myself saying this but, I kinda miss normie Sub-Zero's footsie games. F4 was godlike and we have almost nothing to show for it now. F2 is great option when spaced correctly, and I've been relying on F12 (safe) for my advancing approach. Without drone you can link slide for some simple damage and decent carry.

His pokes in general are booty though. B2 is still his best normal in my opinion. Godlike anti-air (except cross-up). KL and KJ don't give me much trouble anymore. I actually haven't been able to punish many string gaps unless they're the blatantly obvious ones. That tech might be more for the lab monsters than actual practice. I'll keep trying to nail it though.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
I didn't imagine myself saying this but, I kinda miss normie Sub-Zero's footsie games. F4 was godlike and we have almost nothing to show for it now. F2 is great option when spaced correctly, and I've been relying on F12 (safe) for my advancing approach. Without drone you can link slide for some simple damage and decent carry.

His pokes in general are booty though. B2 is still his best normal in my opinion. Godlike anti-air (except cross-up). KL and KJ don't give me much trouble anymore. I actually haven't been able to punish many string gaps unless they're the blatantly obvious ones. That tech might be more for the lab monsters than actual practice. I'll keep trying to nail it though.
at least he has a 7 frame poke, unlike tremor. lol.
 
Piercing mileena feels rough. B12 checks all your close options and only a perfectly timed b2 seems to get you out. At midrange she can just roll under f2 for free and at far rangeshe can just low sai underneath iceball and tele on reaction. Am I missing something to this mu?