Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Swoops]

Yeah just a shame his B2 doesn't juggle you for one and have better safer range, it's crazy punishable on block which sucks since it's one of his KB good luck getting that out in a competitive match.

I mean sub's overhead is the same 19 frame start up and just as punishable but you still see it plenty within competitive play and it still hits people. Not going to say a player cant react to 19 frame start up, but even the best players can have difficulty reacting to that in a high pressure tournament match. It's definitely high risk high reward though.

 

[MKF30]

I mean sub's overhead is the same 19 frame start up and just as punishable but you still see it plenty within competitive play and it still hits people. Not going to say a player cant react to 19 frame start up, but even the best players can have difficulty reacting to that in a high pressure tournament match. It's definitely high risk high reward though.

Yeah, I mean everyone has safe and nor safe moves. It's just unfortunate Raidens b2 was changed in mk11.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Honestly, Raiden’s d2 is pretty good I think. 9f startup and has a lot of forward and upward hitbox. S1, s3 and s4 are also good, you can get 298 damage on s3~db2AMP, ji2, ji3~bf3

 

[DDutchguy]

What I like to do is end combos with B2 in the corner so when they get up they have to be afraid of the B2 KB or B31 low. You sacrifice damage for a scary setup but if they can't break away, it's worth it imo.

That setup to me seems like a really good one, because the B2 KB mindgame has a lot of things to it in theory. Say you end a corner combo in B2:

• B2 KB gives you roughly 50% for a bar, makes them want to block high.
• B31 is much more likely to hit due to the B2 KB threat, giving you a free 30-something% in the corner.
• You can get a grab into whatever you wish afterwards. Also works against wakeup rolls.

Of course there opponent still has a bunch of options with delayed wakeups, wakeup attacks, etc., but the B2/B31 mix alone makes this setup worth it.

 

[Raidenwins]

Raijin is very fun. He becomes a stagger good with it. His buff is near unpunishable and allows you to win chip trades. His whole design when played well is ultra lame which I enjoy. The better you play up close the better raijin helps you. Punishing d1s feels great and let's you walk all over people.

Plus you get to use his db2, it's just satisfying to watch.

Discharge combos are more frequent if you end mid screens with Superman and delay the amps. The carry is pretty nnic and keeps you close enough. I wouldn't hold onto discharge for that purpose though. Take the 140 free damage up front. You should be landing like 4 a round which is half a life bar. I understand the less potential damage raijin has, but the usable damage ramps up the higher tier players you play.

You and others here are making Raijin sound really good. Can you post a match video so those of us who mostly play Thunder Wave (or a custom variation with the specials of Thunder Wave) can see what that variation is all about? All videos I've seen so far are Thunder Wave.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Oh snap!

You can get a combo off AMP db4 in the corner by using discharge. Timing is tight but now this makes any string of his a combo starter.

 

[Ehndur]

Oh snap!

You can get a combo off AMP db4 in the corner by using discharge. Timing is tight but now this makes any string of his a combo starter.

Wait, what ? Could show some footage ?

Edit : Ok I tried it and you're right, you can combo off of that tight link. But you still need to have discharge available tho, which is kinda annoying.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Wait, what ? Could show some footage ?

Edit : Ok I tried it and you're right, you can combo off of that tight link. But you still need to have discharge available tho, which is kinda annoying.

Well.. it's something ^^;

 

[AK Harold]

@Raidenwins my raijin sucks a bit. Still deciding on mains right now. If I come back to him I'll definitely try it. His buff is hard to punish on reaction so use it if you are far away. End combos in Superman to corner carry. I think his primary goal as raijin is to suffocate them near the corner to force them to attack. Then his buff becomes more valuable and you start punishing with discharge.

His buff reduces chip, so don't get anxious getting in. Just flawless projectiles till mid range and get into f4 range. Even if you fail a couple flawless blocks the buff will still reduce damage. Don't f4 every time there just have the threat so they are wanting to back Walk. He is a very lame character. Use discharge often, if they get wise to being punished and stop pressing buttons, use it as a poke too. It's safe with amp. Like f4 link to discharge will beat out pokes etc. Use it as part of your staggers when you have amp.

Go yolo on your 50 50 when they start being passive. His throw game is pretty strong already with f3. I have no use yet for his other two variation moves. I sometimes use df2 at the end of a poke just to keep frames dishonest. Db4 once in a blu moon during footsies.

 

[HiddenSelectCounterPick]

I need help what are the input control settings that you all are using. I cant land bf3 after a jump in. I can only land the second combo in the video about 4 out of 10 times.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I need help what are the input control settings that you all are using. I cant land bf3 after a jump in. I can only land the second combo in the video about 4 out of 10 times.

Which jump in are you referring to? It’s harder to hitconfirm superman from a jump kick imo since it’s slower now I think. And those combos in the vid don’t seem very practical. Raiden gets 28%-30% midscreen with one bar unoptimally. I usually just do b12~db2AMP, du, b12~bf3 if I’m close to the corner to side switch.

 

[DarksydeDash]

@Raidenwins my raijin sucks a bit. Still deciding on mains right now. If I come back to him I'll definitely try it. His buff is hard to punish on reaction so use it if you are far away. End combos in Superman to corner carry. I think his primary goal as raijin is to suffocate them near the corner to force them to attack. Then his buff becomes more valuable and you start punishing with discharge.

His buff reduces chip, so don't get anxious getting in. Just flawless projectiles till mid range and get into f4 range. Even if you fail a couple flawless blocks the buff will still reduce damage. Don't f4 every time there just have the threat so they are wanting to back Walk. He is a very lame character. Use discharge often, if they get wise to being punished and stop pressing buttons, use it as a poke too. It's safe with amp. Like f4 link to discharge will beat out pokes etc. Use it as part of your staggers when you have amp.

Go yolo on your 50 50 when they start being passive. His throw game is pretty strong already with f3. I have no use yet for his other two variation moves. I sometimes use df2 at the end of a poke just to keep frames dishonest. Db4 once in a blu moon during footsies.

his df2 move where he slams the staff on the ground seems like a spacing tool. If you do d4 into it, it's pretty safe with lots of pushback. Unless your name is Sub Zero or Yaas Queen Cassie Cage

 

[DixieFlatline78]

I need help what are the input control settings that you all are using. I cant land bf3 after a jump in. I can only land the second combo in the video about 4 out of 10 times.

Oh my goodness, what is that combo? Three bars for 32%?

Starter xx db2AMP, j2, j3 xx bf3

That's an easy one bar 28-31% combo. You wanna hit the when you're close to landing on the ground, then hit j3 on the way up.

Starter xx db2AMP, j2, f2, 12 xx bf3

That's a bit more challenging, but it's 31-34% I believe. The J2 you wanna hit just before coming back down to the ground, the f2 immediately thereafter. It's can be easy to drop in match.

For canceling into Superman, I usually hold up-forward when I'm doing the jump-in to give a cleaner bf for the Superman. It also helps to hold the 3 down while you're canceling it.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Does anyone know if Raiden’s outfit in the story can be obtained from chests in the Krypt? Or is it a Kollector’s item?

 

[kabelfritz]

just noticed that you can juggle off a close anti-air amplified lightning strike. its really situational though, usually other tools are better in that distance. it might only happen if you did LS midscreen and they jump toward you, so you correct to close.

 

[Marinjuana]

This character is fun and seems solid to me in both variations. Good job NRS

 

[FlawlessVictory127]

SonicFox discusses Raiden in his tier placement at the 3:15:42 mark. He focuses almost entirely on the Raijin variation and how strong he believes that variation is:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/428042249

 

[ogrimtitan]

Yeah, I found his talk super sketchy. Like I get that on paper the 4-frame counter is good, but if it was THAT game-breakingly good, Fox would've been using it in tourney already. He did saw he was gonna try to learn it. Guess we'll find out.

 

[Commiekaze]

Yeah, I found his talk super sketchy. Like I get that on paper the 4-frame counter is good, but if it was THAT game-breakingly good, Fox would've been using it in tourney already. He did saw he was gonna try to learn it. Guess we'll find out.

It's entirely possible that he just finds Erron or Jacqui easier to pick up and operate at efficiency by Combo Breaker. He could also be up-playing Raijin to troll people into spending time on it while he wins money. WHO KNOWS!

 

[HiddenSelectCounterPick]

I've been using f3 for awhile now not so godlike as he's saying maybe itd be useful in Rajin

 

[ogrimtitan]

So there’s no way at all to convert off of discharge midscreen? What do you have to use in the corner?

 

[HiddenSelectCounterPick]

So there’s no way at all to convert off of discharge midscreen? What do you have to use in the corner?

Db4amp

 

[kabelfritz]

so whats your take on string into teleport?

tbh i find it rarely of much use, and when it is, its really hard to execute. of course you can hitconfirm from b12 or the likes, but i personally am too slow to input tele on block and db2 on hit, i always only have one option ready in mind which i will do or not.

that said, the best uses i have found for normal~tele is from pokes, d1 and d3. the timing is really strict though, you gotta press d and1/3 at the exact same moment, and also the up has a certain timing to it - if you do it right it will come out on block and hit though, which is not the case with any other timing (only on hit timing is easier).

f3 into tele is good because it doesnt require any specific timing, just dial it in and you will naturally get it right.

f2, d1 and d3 ~ tele are the only cancels after which the opponent will not switch direction for a reversal but execute it into the initial direction while you appear behind him, so this can be really strong. a slightly delayed poke, maybe just one or 2 frames late might still turn around though and be quick enough to punish you.

 

[Marinjuana]

so whats your take on string into teleport?

tbh i find it rarely of much use, and when it is, its really hard to execute. of course you can hitconfirm from b12 or the likes, but i personally am too slow to input tele on block and db2 on hit, i always only have one option ready in mind which i will do or not.

that said, the best uses i have found for normal~tele is from pokes, d1 and d3. the timing is really strict though, you gotta press d and1/3 at the exact same moment, and also the up has a certain timing to it - if you do it right it will come out on block and hit though, which is not the case with any other timing (only on hit timing is easier).

f3 into tele is good because it doesnt require any specific timing, just dial it in and you will naturally get it right.

f2, d1 and d3 ~ tele are the only cancels after which the opponent will not switch direction for a reversal but execute it into the initial direction while you appear behind him, so this can be really strong. a slightly delayed poke, maybe just one or 2 frames late might still turn around though and be quick enough to punish you.

Whether it's because of design or errant inputs, it seems best to wait until the exact moment you need to input teleport rather the buffering it. I think it's really good, I use a bit of B31~teleport which is -9. If you do the far teleport, it can be very useful at the end of block strings and if you can get some mindgames going with teleporting in place and the other options.

 

[Marinjuana]

Raijen Quick-Charge/Discharge stuff:

Against Liu Kang's Wu Shi Legend variation, Discharge will punish F43 which is -7.(Which is three hits, conveniently.) Without low fireball or parry, Liu's only way to punish a discharge reversal in this situation is to commit to an unsafe high special, in which case the fireball/bicycle kicks are duckable and the flying kick will jail but is heavily punishable. This should really be a struggle for Wu Shi with this string, but Luohan Quan has better options.

Against Johnny Cage's Shock Jock variation, Discharge will punish B34 which is also -7. But if Johnny does his unsafe nutpunch after B34, it can punish your reversal attempt. But if you delay the reversal a frame or two and keep blocking, you can block all of his specials and still punish B34 with Discharge. You may have to commit to the Discharge reversal on nutpunch for it to work. So if you do this correctly and have Discharge ready to go, the only option Shock Jock has to not get punished for using B34 is to do B34~Mime Parry which is a guessing game that is heavily in Raiden's favor. Show-Stopper has even less merit here.

These are two examples of how this move can really throw a wrench into the normal gameplan of characters and it's just a couple of many.