Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[kabelfritz]

With discharge? anything. Otherwise you're going to have to rely on 21

sorry i dont understand how you would do that, can you give an example?

 

[buyacushun]

I've been using mostly Raijin and finding success against some good players. Just takes some lab time so you can properly utilize the tools during a match. If I had to change something I'd say make DB4 be able to be spaced safely and make BF1 safe from midscreen and shorten the startup a bit so it's like a long range poke. IDK what the purpose of DF2. Why wouldn't you use BF3 to reach the corner and then use DB2 for damage and knockdown.

Important to note that B12 jails. Tested with a few characters and if they block the first hit, they were NOT able to duck or otherwise make the 2 whiff.

This took way too long to find.

 

[DarksydeDash]

sorry i dont understand how you would do that, can you give an example?

Discharge lets you get a restand into a combo as long as the opponent is airborne. So from there you can do b2 raw or 21, B2. for example.

 

[kabelfritz]

Discharge lets you get a restand into a combo as long as the opponent is airborne. So from there you can do b2 raw or 21, B2. for example.

hell no, you cant get a b2 off of that. s2 is just quick enough but still a tough link. if you can b2 from 21 thatd be differnet, havent tested that.

 

[Playpal]

Raiden's got excellent mobility, wall carry, range on his normals, and a good 50/50. 7f jab that can be combo'd with meter or krushing blow punish. Can also combo off jik and block confirm into a mixup. Ending combos with superman or 121 krushing blow gives enough advantage that you can follow up with teleport and still be +. Ex electric cell guarantees good damage off of anything.

Problem is, everything's unsafe.

B12 is -9
B2 is -18, with terrible range and whiff recovery
B31 doesn't jail and can be flawless blocked to be -16 with no pushback.
Storm cell third hit can be ducked and punished.
D4 got a 14f startup.
Projectiles have huge recovery.
String staggering feels pretty gimmicky.

Not feeling great about Raiden. Still gonna play him tho.

 

[AbeW]

Raiden's got excellent mobility, wall carry, range on his normals, and a good 50/50. 7f jab that can be combo'd with meter or krushing blow punish. Can also combo off jik and block confirm into a mixup. Ending combos with superman or 121 krushing blow gives enough advantage that you can follow up with teleport and still be +. Ex electric cell guarantees good damage off of anything.

Problem is, everything's unsafe.

B12 is -9
B2 is -18, with terrible range and whiff recovery
B31 doesn't jail and can be flawless blocked to be -16 with no pushback.
Storm cell third hit can be ducked and punished.
D4 got a 14f startup.
Projectiles have huge recovery.
String staggering feels pretty gimmicky.

Not feeling great about Raiden. Still gonna play him tho.

Its awful against anyone who's labbed the matchup. b31 is so easy to flawless block. Going back to MKX and playing some MoS/displacer is saving my sanity for now.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Its awful against anyone who's labbed the matchup. b31 is so easy to flawless block. Going back to MKX and playing some MoS/displacer is saving my sanity for now.

Try B3 staggers? Or B3~ storm cell to catch them not blocking. That might deter them and they try to punish storm cell, then you can start doing B31 again??

 

[AK Harold]

Raijin is very fun. He becomes a stagger good with it. His buff is near unpunishable and allows you to win chip trades. His whole design when played well is ultra lame which I enjoy. The better you play up close the better raijin helps you. Punishing d1s feels great and let's you walk all over people.

Plus you get to use his db2, it's just satisfying to watch.

Discharge combos are more frequent if you end mid screens with Superman and delay the amps. The carry is pretty nnic and keeps you close enough. I wouldn't hold onto discharge for that purpose though. Take the 140 free damage up front. You should be landing like 4 a round which is half a life bar. I understand the less potential damage raijin has, but the usable damage ramps up the higher tier players you play.

 

[AK Harold]

Oh also practice flawless on projectiles, it count towards your buff.
I'd love if they buff raiden but honestly just rather have 6f D1 removed. Maybe give raijin a specific crushing blow since he literally has 4 unique moves that don't have much use aside from discharge. Or have discharge buff affect his df2 and db 2 somehow. Overall though raijin is kinda nice.

 

[DDutchguy]

How long does discharge last? Is there a time limit to how long the buff is active? If not then discharge would be a constant threat since I remember you said you can set it up immediately after you perform the 4f reversal?

I can confirm the duration is 15 seconds. I tested it in the lab last week.

 

[f24]

Raiden's got excellent mobility, wall carry, range on his normals, and a good 50/50. 7f jab that can be combo'd with meter or krushing blow punish. Can also combo off jik and block confirm into a mixup. Ending combos with superman or 121 krushing blow gives enough advantage that you can follow up with teleport and still be +. Ex electric cell guarantees good damage off of anything.

Problem is, everything's unsafe.

B12 is -9
B2 is -18, with terrible range and whiff recovery
B31 doesn't jail and can be flawless blocked to be -16 with no pushback.
Storm cell third hit can be ducked and punished.
D4 got a 14f startup.
Projectiles have huge recovery.
String staggering feels pretty gimmicky.

Not feeling great about Raiden. Still gonna play him tho.

Honestly, I think he's great. He could maybe use a few buffs to frames to be on par with the top tiers (Erron, Sonya, Geras, Sub, etc), but I think Raiden seems to be one of the most well balanced and honest characters in the game. I would pretty much take Raiden as the template for how the rest of the characters should be balanced. Raiden doesn't have any crazy dirt, but you can make shit happen with him as well.

 

[f24]

Updated Buff Wishlist (from me):

• Better frames on lightning strike - safe on block midscreen to full screen, safe on whiff full screen - obviously dash punch characters will ahve good answers to this ability
• Better EF Krushing Blow trigger. I currently never use amplified Electric Fly as it's pretty much never worth it in a combo due to scaling. And hard EF reads are usually rare to come by and less optimal than a normal punish combo. Give me a reason to amplify EF - maybe make the requirement 3 successful amplified electric fly in a match, or maybe trigger on punish/counter hit.

Also, does anyone use f1 and f11 effectively?

The f1 being a high means I pretty much never use it because it's so easy to punish and really only has one range where it's good from. Sometimes i throw out f11 or f112 in footsies, but it seems like a weak option.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Updated Buff Wishlist (from me):

• Better frames on lightning strike - safe on block midscreen to full screen, safe on whiff full screen - obviously dash punch characters will ahve good answers to this ability
• Better EF Krushing Blow trigger. I currently never use amplified Electric Fly as it's pretty much never worth it in a combo due to scaling. And hard EF reads are usually rare to come by and less optimal than a normal punish combo. Give me a reason to amplify EF - maybe make the requirement 3 successful amplified electric fly in a match, or maybe trigger on punish/counter hit.

Also, does anyone use f1 and f11 effectively?

The f1 being a high means I pretty much never use it because it's so easy to punish and really only has one range where it's good from. Sometimes i throw out f11 or f112 in footsies, but it seems like a weak option.

Longer ranged whiff punisher than B12 and F3, using F11 from a little bit beyond sweep range can sometimes catch people not blocking low. For me it’s also easier to block confirm into superman cancels. I use it quite a lot. Granted not as much as B12 or Raiden’s amazing F32, but it’s useful. It’s like the middle ground between the long range but slow max damage F4, and the faster but shorter and lower damage B12

 

[Mandolore1123]

Updated Buff Wishlist (from me):

• Better frames on lightning strike - safe on block midscreen to full screen, safe on whiff full screen - obviously dash punch characters will ahve good answers to this ability
• Better EF Krushing Blow trigger. I currently never use amplified Electric Fly as it's pretty much never worth it in a combo due to scaling. And hard EF reads are usually rare to come by and less optimal than a normal punish combo. Give me a reason to amplify EF - maybe make the requirement 3 successful amplified electric fly in a match, or maybe trigger on punish/counter hit.

I’d only add F3 being safer on block, say -4/-3 or even just -5. Something that gives up your turn but once you command respect then it’s always your turn. Which is what Raiden thrives on in my opinion. Make them respect the Thunder God, and they will share the fate of Shinnok

 

[haketh]

Longer ranged whiff punisher than B12 and F3, using F11 from a little bit beyond sweep range can sometimes catch people not blocking low. For me it’s also easier to block confirm into superman cancels. I use it quite a lot. Granted not as much as B12 or Raiden’s amazing F32, but it’s useful. It’s like the middle ground between the long range but slow max damage F4, and the faster but shorter and lower damage B12

F1 is also pretty good at catching people wanting to jump & people love to jump around F1 Tip range so you can catch people a lot & force them to begin walking in

 

[kabelfritz]

Updated Buff Wishlist (from me):

• Better frames on lightning strike - safe on block midscreen to full screen, safe on whiff full screen - obviously dash punch characters will ahve good answers to this ability
• Better EF Krushing Blow trigger. I currently never use amplified Electric Fly as it's pretty much never worth it in a combo due to scaling. And hard EF reads are usually rare to come by and less optimal than a normal punish combo. Give me a reason to amplify EF - maybe make the requirement 3 successful amplified electric fly in a match, or maybe trigger on punish/counter hit.

Also, does anyone use f1 and f11 effectively?

The f1 being a high means I pretty much never use it because it's so easy to punish and really only has one range where it's good from. Sometimes i throw out f11 or f112 in footsies, but it seems like a weak option.

f11 is godlike in the footsie game. people walk into it all the time, no matter if its a high, and many dont block low the 2nd. its also -3/-5, has no hurtbox on the staff and can be confirmed into Storm Cell or bf3/cancel. f1 catches almost every jump in, even right in Raidens face. its only downside is being a high, but whenever people get close to sweep range i throw it out. its one of those tools that work way better in reality than in theory.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

f1 catches almost every jump in, even right in Raidens face.

Boy I wish this was true. I've had whiff on plenty of jumps where I was expecting a hit.

 

[kabelfritz]

little labbing on staggers and hitconfirms from normals:

f3 has a 15 frame stagger, and as in this game you are jailed into high state during stagger, raiden can easily confirm into 234 pressure, ending in bf3 or bf3 cancel on reaction.

its also possible to 3,2 after a connected poke, but thats a 1-frame link, as poke staggers for 12 frames and 3 has 11. if you can make it, you can confirm into a special cancel on hit though.

f2~bf3 allows to execute or cancel bf3 on reaction due to 15 frames of hit stagger after f2. it knocks too far away for any other high jail than 4 though, but i dont think thats good.

 

[AK Harold]

If you restand with raijin you can end in 12 for plus 17 so mix up after that.

 

[Swoops]

little labbing on staggers and hitconfirms from normals:

f3 has a 15 frame stagger, and as in this game you are jailed into high state during stagger, raiden can easily confirm into 234 pressure, ending in bf3 or bf3 cancel on reaction.

its also possible to 3,2 after a connected poke, but thats a 1-frame link, as poke staggers for 12 frames and 3 has 11. if you can make it, you can confirm into a special cancel on hit though.

f2~bf3 allows to execute or cancel bf3 on reaction due to 15 frames of hit stagger after f2. it knocks too far away for any other high jail than 4 though, but i dont think thats good.

Yea F3 is really solid as a stand alone poke. Any opportunity to jail into 243 is great since that string is so safe, has no gap, is hit-confirmable, and has a low in it.

F2 > 243 should work though because F2 is 18f hit advantage. Should be able to walk or micro-dash up into 243.

B3 is also a really strong stagger normal. -9 on block but I find because of the recovery+blockstun and B31 it's very difficult to reliably react to it. If it hits it also gives you the option to confirm into a jailed 243, or mix in a grimy B2 attempt.

I think a really solid aspect of raiden going forward is going to be jailing to the 243/B3/B2 mix

(Side note: S3 has a garbage hitbox on the ground. It's really difficult to jail into it off anything except maybe ji1/2. I try not to use it unless I know I'm going to be right up in their face with advantage. It's a decent counter poke though)

 

[MKF30]

Yeah just a shame his B2 doesn't juggle you for one and have better safer range, it's crazy punishable on block which sucks since it's one of his KB good luck getting that out in a competitive match.

Anyone here pratice IA Supermans? It's fun, takes practice though as most IA moves do but if you can do it great at catching jumps from a far or even getting away real fast to zone a bit. Of course he has his teleport, but if you want to control the trajectory it'll cost you a bar. And have any of you done the towers? Some of the requirements are tough but definitely possible.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Yeah just a shame his B2 doesn't juggle you for one and have better safer range, it's crazy punishable on block which sucks since it's one of his KB good luck getting that out in a competitive match.

Anyone here pratice IA Supermans? It's fun, takes practice though as most IA moves do but if you can do it great at catching jumps from a far or even getting away real fast to zone a bit. Of course he has his teleport, but if you want to control the trajectory it'll cost you a bar. And have any of you done the towers? Some of the requirements are tough but definitely possible.

What I like to do is end combos with B2 in the corner so when they get up they have to be afraid of the B2 KB or B31 low. You sacrifice damage for a scary setup but if they can't break away, it's worth it imo.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Real talk, I'm starting to believe in Raijin a bit more now.

It rewards you blocking and lets you cash out in the corner

 

[NOMAS]

Anyone mind giving me a breakdown on raiden or link to an overview. Seen some vids and messed around with him while sparring with a friend and had a lot of fun with him. Mainly want to know where to go in terms of pressure to re-establish space for his mid range game, how to apply his mixup, and what to use when they're up close.

Bonus tips for raijin too for anyone who'll bother lol. Variation looks

 

[MKF30]

What I like to do is end combos with B2 in the corner so when they get up they have to be afraid of the B2 KB or B31 low. You sacrifice damage for a scary setup but if they can't break away, it's worth it imo.

yeah that's a good tactic, a lot of times in the corner people will tend to roll I try to bait them and throw lol.