Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Mandolore1123]

so whats your take on string into teleport?

tbh i find it rarely of much use, and when it is, its really hard to execute. of course you can hitconfirm from b12 or the likes, but i personally am too slow to input tele on block and db2 on hit, i always only have one option ready in mind which i will do or not.

that said, the best uses i have found for normal~tele is from pokes, d1 and d3. the timing is really strict though, you gotta press d and1/3 at the exact same moment, and also the up has a certain timing to it - if you do it right it will come out on block and hit though, which is not the case with any other timing (only on hit timing is easier).

f3 into tele is good because it doesnt require any specific timing, just dial it in and you will naturally get it right.

f2, d1 and d3 ~ tele are the only cancels after which the opponent will not switch direction for a reversal but execute it into the initial direction while you appear behind him, so this can be really strong. a slightly delayed poke, maybe just one or 2 frames late might still turn around though and be quick enough to punish you.

I have the same problem you do. I’m working to improve my block confirms and stop bad habits, though I think maybe it’ll be a good idea to always use more superman cancels midscreen. Combos are unbreakable, you get lots of corner carry and it saves offensive meter until you get to the corner or for punishes. When Raiden has you in the corner he becomes very scary

 

[Mandolore1123]

Any good showings of Raiden in Combo Breaker? I know HeroKillerStain was using Raiden and Kombat used him in the auction tournament. Any other notable users?

 

[FlawlessVictory127]

Any good showings of Raiden in Combo Breaker? I know HeroKillerStain was using Raiden and Kombat used him in the auction tournament. Any other notable users?

Kombat switched to Raiden during the tournament to beat a Skarlet player to advance to winners top 16 I believe. He then tried Raiden first against Semiij’s Kitana and lost. Then he switched to Jax and lost again and got sent to losers.

Edit: Top 24 not 16

 

[FlawlessVictory127]

Kombat’s Raiden took Dragon’s Cetrion to match point but lost a heartbreaker. He’s out of the tournament now.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

Guys, I'm having a hard time trying to restand the opponent on hit using discharge with raiden.
I Can use the move after a string on block defensively, I can charge it....but in combos I can't restand the opponent.
Somebody said that has to be after a launcher....but it is not coming.
Do i really have to press db3? This shit don't come out haha.

 

[Buster Skruggs]

I'm really digging the two variants and find both useful. I think I might finally settle on a main with raiden he's always been my favorite mortal kombat character since mk1. I remember that guy flying across the screen. Just wish he still made that battle cry when he used electric fly. I'm a 28 yr old electrician and still pretend I can fly at my 9yr old nephew screaming stuff lol.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Kombat’s Raiden took Dragon’s Cetrion to match point but lost a heartbreaker. He’s out of the tournament now.

I’ve just watched that match, I notice he seems to save storm cell for guaranteed punishes, and only hit confirms into superman mostly. He doesn’t use F4 a lot, though maybe it’s because he doesn’t he’s usually hit Dragon with it. B12 is really all he does, he even gets punished for doing B12 raw without cancelling. F3 stagger gets poked out once. F11 isn’t seen at all. He also drops his storm cell combos as he’s going for F2 instead of JI3~BF3. Another factor is breakaway, losing all his damage from storm cell due to that. Good data and food for thought. Also the reversal punish Cetrion got full screen on a blocked lightning strike...pls make it safer NRS

 

[BuffRaiden]

I’ve just watched that match, I notice he seems to save storm cell for guaranteed punishes, and only hit confirms into superman mostly. He doesn’t use F4 a lot, though maybe it’s because he doesn’t he’s usually hit Dragon with it. B12 is really all he does, he even gets punished for doing B12 raw without cancelling. F3 stagger gets poked out once. F11 isn’t seen at all. He also drops his storm cell combos as he’s going for F2 instead of JI3~BF3. Another factor is breakaway, losing all his damage from storm cell due to that. Good data and food for thought. Also the reversal punish Cetrion got full screen on a blocked lightning strike...pls make it safer NRS

Do you mean using ji2 - f2 - 12 instead of ji2 - ji3 - Superman? I think he was trying to optimize. Right now storm cell might be the single most punishable move in the game. I’d rather have it at -7 through 10 than not being able to use it outside of a hard hit confirm. D3 storm cell will catch opponents despite the risk and the few times that he caught dragon it was off of a poke.

He definitely needs to be safer and hopefully the patch will come soon. Honestly if they massively buff his zoning I think he’ll be viable. But right now he doesn’t do anything particularly well.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Do you mean using ji2 - f2 - 12 instead of ji2 - ji3 - Superman? I think he was trying to optimize. Right now storm cell might be the single most punishable move in the game. I’d rather have it at -7 through 10 than not being able to use it outside of a hard hit confirm. D3 storm cell will catch opponents despite the risk and the few times that he caught dragon it was off of a poke.

He definitely needs to be safer and hopefully the patch will come soon. Honestly if they massively buff his zoning I think he’ll be viable. But right now he doesn’t do anything particularly well.

Consistency trumps damage imo, not that you shouldn't always go for optimisation, but it's just that he dropped the combo he could have used to close out the second game due to the stricter timing of F2, 12~BF3. Maybe he could have taken 2% less but then he'd be sitting on a more comfortable life lead. Nothing against Kombat though, he played well.

As for Raiden's standing he's not bad at all. He has a presence at all ranges of the screen. Good mobility with TP, enforces respect with string~DUF and string~BF3DD, strong whiff punishing with F11 and B12, practical KBs (except the superman one). Sure he's not as safe, his best stagger string is -6 so it's not really good enough to be a stagger. AMP TP is used sparsely since it's unsafe and can only cause certain moves to whiff while wasting a bar so your punish is rarely optimal. BF1 starts slow but is high, mid when amplified so it can catch jumps and it travels instantly across the screen after it's active. DF2 is faster but super unsafe at all ranges. It also catches forward jumps but not neutral jumps. This move is my main gripe since it's too unsafe to throw out at all and the damage from it is less than BF1, though the amplified version bring them closer to you at +5 hit advantage standing though unfortunately it only comes out on hit. He's honest but not bad. It's just other characters play his game better and safer than he does. If he gets touched in the patch, I pray it's minor frame buffs then he'd probably be great. The only move that really needs help is probably DF2 so he has a reason to use it full screen. Other than that I think he's perfectly viable, just needs more work to win with him. The 2/3 setting doesn't help with his game of establishing options and gaining respect from the opponent though.

 

[BuffRaiden]

Consistency trumps damage imo, not that you shouldn't always go for optimisation, but it's just that he dropped the combo he could have used to close out the second game due to the stricter timing of F2, 12~BF3. Maybe he could have taken 2% less but then he'd be sitting on a more comfortable life lead. Nothing against Kombat though, he played well.

As for Raiden's standing he's not bad at all. He has a presence at all ranges of the screen. Good mobility with TP, enforces respect with string~DUF and string~BF3DD, strong whiff punishing with F11 and B12, practical KBs (except the superman one). Sure he's not as safe, his best stagger string is -6 so it's not really good enough to be a stagger. AMP TP is used sparsely since it's unsafe and can only cause certain moves to whiff while wasting a bar so your punish is rarely optimal. BF1 starts slow but is high, mid when amplified so it can catch jumps and it travels instantly across the screen after it's active. DF2 is faster but super unsafe at all ranges. It also catches forward jumps but not neutral jumps. This move is my main gripe since it's too unsafe to throw out at all and the damage from it is less than BF1, though the amplified version bring them closer to you at +5 hit advantage standing though unfortunately it only comes out on hit. He's honest but not bad. It's just other characters play his game better and safer than he does. If he gets touched in the patch, I pray it's minor frame buffs then he'd probably be great. The only move that really needs help is probably DF2 so he has a reason to use it full screen. Other than that I think he's perfectly viable, just needs more work to win with him. The 2/3 setting doesn't help with his game of establishing options and gaining respect from the opponent though.

It’s just hard to ignore everyone who played him eventually got broken down. I tend to not bother with the 12 part of f2 12 with too much riding on making sure Superman connects for corner carry. With Raiden it’s not just about damage but screen positioning as well so you’re totally right. Df2 being safe should be fine considering cetrions tools.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Also the reversal punish Cetrion got full screen on a blocked lightning strike...pls make it safer NRS

FUCKING. THIS.

 

[Mandolore1123]

FUCKING. THIS.

To be fair, Geras’ sand trap can also be punished full screen by Geras’ sand trap from full screen. Though Sand trap is still less negative than lightning strike

 

[Mandolore1123]

Is B14 overhead reactable? I’m thinking it’s an interesting string. It’s purpose seems to be to counter the possibility of opponents whiff punishing the second hit of B12 (after B1 whiffs) with a neutral crouch into D2 or whatever. Up close if B1 is blocked the overhead seems reactable, maybe it should be safer?? It’s currently -18 so the risk/reward is not in Raiden’s favour at all. What do you all think?

 

[AK Harold]

Problem is b12 jails so it's only a matter of whiffing b1 to consider this

 

[Marinjuana]

Is B14 overhead reactable? I’m thinking it’s an interesting string. It’s purpose seems to be to counter the possibility of opponents whiff punishing the second hit of B12 (after B1 whiffs) with a neutral crouch into D2 or whatever. Up close if B1 is blocked the overhead seems reactable, maybe it should be safer?? It’s currently -18 so the risk/reward is not in Raiden’s favour at all. What do you all think?

You get a little overhead/low mixup in Raijen with the electric current low special. Risky and low reward but I've used it as a round ender.

 

[MKF30]

So far I haven't been countered as far as FB on B1,4 string and it's great mixing up with his other strings. I just wish it was a little faster. I think it would be cool if they gave Raiden a launcher string that's safe on block. hehe

 

[Buster Skruggs]

As of now raiden is the most complex character I have played with. Between superman cancels and teleport strings my mind is boggling. Not to mention rajin seems to be a variation that does well against heavy offensive characters and I believe benefits you more then thunderwave. So much stuff to learn

 

[Mandolore1123]

So far I haven't been countered as far as FB on B1,4 string and it's great mixing up with his other strings. I just wish it was a little faster. I think it would be cool if they gave Raiden a launcher string that's safe on block. hehe

21 launches in the corner and is -7. So he does have that

 

[Mandolore1123]

As of now raiden is the most complex character I have played with. Between superman cancels and teleport strings my mind is boggling. Not to mention rajin seems to be a variation that does well against heavy offensive characters and I believe benefits you more then thunderwave. So much stuff to learn

I’m adding something to my wish list. I want to be able to cancel into TP normally like any special. No reason why the timing should be different. THrows me off so much when I want to cancel and it doesn’t come out

 

[MKF30]

21 launches in the corner and is -7. So he does have that

Oh yeah in the corner a lot of characters have tools like that, but I mean a mid screen launcher from anywhere like Skarlet's or LK's etc.

 

[Buster Skruggs]

I’m adding something to my wish list. I want to be able to cancel into TP normally like any special. No reason why the timing should be different. THrows me off so much when I want to cancel and it doesn’t come out

I'm not sure if I like the timing yet or not it does seem to be easier on block confirms. Almost have to wait till the string is over and quickly smash it

 

[Mandolore1123]

Oh yeah in the corner a lot of characters have tools like that, but I mean a mid screen launcher from anywhere like Skarlet's or LK's etc.

I don’t feel like he needs it though. It’s not like he lacks damage terribly. A midscreen launcher just means he can bait breakaways without meter. And 21~BF1/DF2/BF3 is also a combo midscreen So it’s not that he doesn’t have it. It’s just tiny tiny damage.

 

[ogrimtitan]

Raiden's big problem is that he's both unsafe AND lacks dirt. In most games, if a character's pretty unsafe, they have a lot of dirt. Think of Akuma, and how he usually has a ton of tools and nasty offense, but he's about as durable as wet tissue and if you make the wrong call once or twice as him you're dead. On the other hand, characters that don't have much dirt tend to be pretty safe. This would be like Ryu usually plays, where his game plan isn't very tricky, but he doesn't take many risks to implement it. Raiden currently has the worst side of both those trade offs. In Thunderwave, it seems like he's supposed to play kind of dirty with the teleport mix ups and superman cancels, but they're not really that dirty and most halfway decent players won't fall for them for long. And in Raijin, it seems like he's supposed to play straightforward and safe, but he's just not that safe on any of his effective stuff. To make either variation effective, Thunderwave's teleport needs to be a lot more dangerous in terms of frame data, and Raijin's space control needs to be a lot safer.

Of course, for me, I'd prefer them to also plan his variations out better. There's no reason for teleport to be a 2-slot move. It's not for any other characters who have a decent teleport. Drop it to one slot and give him something else useful in Thunderwave, and put Jo Push in Raijin for combos.

 

[MKF30]

I don’t feel like he needs it though. It’s not like he lacks damage terribly. A midscreen launcher just means he can bait breakaways without meter. And 21~BF1/DF2/BF3 is also a combo midscreen So it’s not that he doesn’t have it. It’s just tiny tiny damage.

It's not so much the damage it's the slower strings and tools he lacks that can make him better. His damage is decent, I just think he could benefit with better, safer strings. Oh yeah I know about the DB2 lol but that's a special move, lol. imagine if he had a regular string that launched into that hmmm. Then he'd really be threatening damage wise!

 

[Cosmic Forge]

I was happy with the idea of making Lightning Strike less negative on block.

But then I thought about it more, and started to get pissed off. Lightning should hurt, a LOT. But fuckin Mister Sandman with his low sand trap can snag you anywhere on the screen and possibly KB into 30%? From some stupid judo neck chop?

After considering this, I feel its entirely justifiable for Lightning Strike to be HELLA BUFFED:

-19 or less on block
OVERHEAD
Krushing Blow with the same conditions as Geras' sand trap

This would also inadvertently buff Raijin, since Raiden can do the low projectile while quick charged.

2 for the price of 1