Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[MKF30]

His D2 loses to neutral jumps in the corner and so does his U2. Otherwise it’s ok but for super jumps you do DB2 and not D2

Yeah I've noticed NJ's in this game are pretty powerful I think more than people give them credit for in general. I just hate how he uses his palm, like everyone has a different way of uppercut you know? I also use if you're quick enough his F112 string, but don't finish the 12 just the F1 works as a good AA I've noticed.

 

[JontyHar23]

Yeah I've noticed NJ's in this game are pretty powerful I think more than people give them credit for in general. I just hate how he uses his palm, like everyone has a different way of uppercut you know? I also use if you're quick enough his F112 string, but don't finish the 12 just the F1 works as a good AA I've noticed.

Yeah, I like to use his F1 to lock down people who impulsively jump out of the corner once they start getting boxed in.
S4 has some use if I read their jump in, similarly to S1. It might just be me, but the hitbox of F1 sometimes seems a little misleading aginst some characters. I've timed F1 to anti-air someone only to have the end of the staff barely clip against their character model and end up whiffing. Otherwise, I feel F1 to be helpful for catching jump-ins and neutral jumps from a certain distance.

 

[MKF30]

Yeah, I like to use his F1 to lock down people who impulsively jump out of the corner once they start getting boxed in.
S4 has some use if I read their jump in, similarly to S1. It might just be me, but the hitbox of F1 sometimes seems a little misleading aginst some characters. I've timed F1 to anti-air someone only to have the end of the staff barely clip against their character model and end up whiffing. Otherwise, I feel F1 to be helpful for catching jump-ins and neutral jumps from a certain distance.

To be honest, I see people complain all the time about AA in this game but it's not that hard given how floaty the damn jumping is in this game. Though I do feel Geras's jumps and cross ups are annoying af. Dude plays like a SF character, not an MK one lol. But yeah for sure F1 can definitely take out jumpers. It may even be more useful than the string itself which is rather slow and predictable.

 

[JontyHar23]

To be honest, I see people complain all the time about AA in this game but it's not that hard given how floaty the damn jumping is in this game. Though I do feel Geras's jumps and cross ups are annoying af. Dude plays like a SF character, not an MK one lol. But yeah for sure F1 can definitely take out jumpers. It may even be more useful than the string itself which is rather slow and predictable.

The more I play MK11, the more comfortable I feel anti-airing jumps. Much like throws, I feel that a lot of it is familairizing yourself with situations that people may or tend to jump during. Besides, most jumps are rather floaty and provde time to react if you're expectant.

 

[MKF30]

The more I play MK11, the more comfortable I feel anti-airing jumps. Much like throws, I feel that a lot of it is familairizing yourself with situations that people may or tend to jump during. Besides, most jumps are rather floaty and provde time to react if you're expectant.

Yeah plus if you can anticipate or guess correctly that always helps too.

 

[Pyrosis]

Raiden's anti-air special move bodies Upgraded Jacqui free...

 

[MKF30]

What move bodies Upgraded Jacqui because it sure ain't his TW or 3rd variation lol

 

[Mandolore1123]

Raiden's anti-air special move bodies Upgraded Jacqui free...

He can shut it down, but he still has to contend with her offense up close with the shrapnel blast cancels. She just has to work her way in the old way, which isn’t too hard because Raiden‘s projectile start up isn’t the best. She still has great offense. There‘s a video of Kombat using Raijin against Deoxys‘ Upgraded in the Match footage thread. Go see how they play. Delays does manage to get some games.

 

[SparkySanders]

I’m assuming he’s talking about summon lightning in raijin (db2)
I’ve yet to have a chance to test it but it seems like it would.

 

[Pyrosis]

Yes. Summon lightning alone takes away a huge amount of Upgraded's offense just by existing. All I ever see in this thread is Raiden moping (not entirely unjustified, granted) but this specific complaining about Upgraded variation just seems dumb. The match-up is AT LEAST 5-5, maybe even in Raijin's favor...

 

[MagicMan357]

Im picking up raiden. Raijin is stupid good.

 

[MKF30]

Most people feel upgraded is still too good though if not broke. The move on start up can be stuffed out but once she gets in her pressure is stupid good. Was watching sikander and destroyers streams recently both said ahe was stupid.

Too bad raijin didnt have the teleport imagine? Haha

 

[Mandolore1123]

Im picking up raiden. Raijin is stupid good.

Raijin’s weak to heavy zoning. Learn TW too so you can get around it. The two variations are complimentary. Also check out the new combo thread. There are lots of tips there to start you off for all variations

 

[MKF30]

Yeah TW is his only variation great for getting around zoning and good mobility.

 

[Nevan_PTF]

Have you guys watched Sonix input regarding Raiden?

It's from Friday.

EDIT: added time stamp

 

[Mandolore1123]

Have you guys watched Sonix input regarding Raiden?

It's from Friday.

EDIT: added time stamp

I agree with most of what SF says. Though I believe he’s left out a few points:

• Zoning: I still firmly believe that Raijin suffers from a lack of options against good projectiles and zoning, since both of his projectile start up slowly, they can’t really be used to contest against characters like Outtake Johnny or Cetrion. If characters get the life lead, they can just stand back and chuck fireballs while Raijin has to walk them to the corner before he can really start his offense.
• Discharge: While SF is completely right that discharge can mess up a lot of characters (for example shutting down Geras’ 111 completely), that doesn’t mean there aren’t counters to this move. In his video he used Liu‘s F43 as an example, but he doesn’t mention all of Liu’s options after F43. While discharge beats F43 on block and F434 cleanly, it has been stated before that discharge can only trade with low fireball, and Liu can read discharge and just parry it into full combo. Therefore discharge can negate certain options but not all of them. Characters can also cancel their strings into specials to stuff discharge, an example would be NW doing DF2 in Matoka Warrior after his 111 (-7) on a read so Raiden can’t punish 111 and instead gets launched for a full combo. Another example would be Liu doing 124 into dragon kick for the same effect. However, often the characters’s options to stuff discharge are unsafe, and if read can be easily blocked and punished into big damage. Therefore the risk/reward may not necessarily be in the opponent’s favour. Nevertheless, this shows that as long as the opponent establishes that they are wiling to be unsafe to counter discharge, then they may still be able to use their tools.
• Footsies: While SF is again right in pointing out that Raijin‘s DF2 puts him at an ideal footsie range for F4, characters like that can contest him at this specific range may cause trouble (SD Noob’s slide comes to mind). However, I’m not pro and I haven’t even fought an SD noob yet, but from what I’ve seen Raijin needs to play a lot smarter if the opponent has tools that work well at the ranges that Raijin thrives at, which is fine in my opinion since every character has bad MUs.

Overall SF makes a lot of good points, especially bringing up Raijin’s corner game, which is super underrated IMO. However, I still don’t think that Raijin is really S tier due to the points I mentioned above. I look forward to SF bringing Raijin to tournament though, maybe then we can see if we can learn something new.

 

[Marlow]

I'm hoping to see some competitive players outside of Sonic Fox give Raijin a try at tournament.

I think compared to the rest of the cast Raiden's probably still lower tier, and there's still a reasonable argument to be made that he's the lowest in the game. At the same time I think tiers matter very little in MK11. I don't see how Raiden can be considered a bad character, and I think Sonic Fox has shown that Raiden is a completely viable character in competitive settings.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I'm hoping to see some competitive players outside of Sonic Fox give Raijin a try at tournament.

I think compared to the rest of the cast Raiden's probably still lower tier, and there's still a reasonable argument to be made that he's the lowest in the game. At the same time I think tiers matter very little in MK11. I don't see how Raiden can be considered a bad character, and I think Sonic Fox has shown that Raiden is a completely viable character in competitive settings.

I agree that tiers matter little in this game, it’s just about the MU and tools that the characters have.

 

[Nevan_PTF]

I really think discussions like this can be positive when playing a character or trying to develop it.

This is the kind of discussion that needs to be had, for all characters, in terms to establish solid foundations, develop further knowledge and to provide feedback when necessary.

Thank you for the thorough input @Mandolore1123 on Sonic's video.

Kudos!

 

[Mandolore1123]

I really think discussions like this can be positive when playing a character or trying to develop it.

This is the kind of discussion that needs to be had, for all characters, in terms to establish solid foundations, develop further knowledge and to provide feedback when necessary.

Thank you for the thorough input @Mandolore1123 on Sonic's video.

Kudos!

Don’t thank me. The points I’ve brought up and what SF said have been discussed by Raiden players before. I was just summarising what has been known. If you’re interested in more tech then go read the new combo thread made by @Marlow. It’s the most updated on discovery of useful stuff.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I'm hoping to see some competitive players outside of Sonic Fox give Raijin a try at tournament.

I think compared to the rest of the cast Raiden's probably still lower tier, and there's still a reasonable argument to be made that he's the lowest in the game. At the same time I think tiers matter very little in MK11. I don't see how Raiden can be considered a bad character, and I think Sonic Fox has shown that Raiden is a completely viable character in competitive settings.

Wazminator trying out Raiden here. Haven‘t watched it yet but i thought you might be interested

 

[Nevan_PTF]

Raiden was the character I wanted to try right away, but then I started to watch Shujinkydink and his Cetrion xD Found Cetrion zoning more appealing to me.

Since I've started to play the game, almost 1 week ago, I'm getting more comfortable with the game and I will try Raiden on the side =)

thx!

 

[Marlow]

Is Raiden's 32 string a decent string to try and pressure the opponent on wakeup? The 2nd hit is a mid with 5 active frames, leaves Raiden +9 on hit and only -3 on block. On paper I feel like it looks pretty good, but I haven't really tried it in a real match setting.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Is Raiden's 32 string a decent string to try and pressure the opponent on wakeup? The 2nd hit is a mid with 5 active frames, leaves Raiden +9 on hit and only -3 on block. On paper I feel like it looks pretty good, but I haven't really tried it in a real match setting.

If I think they are going to sit there on block I’d rather go for 243. I honestly don’t use 321 at all. And 243 is gapless and -3 and can be easily cancelled into full combo or into DF2. I sometimes use 243 as a way to pressure when they delay wake-up.

 

[Marlow]

Gotcha. I definitely wouldn't use the entire 321 string, just the 32. It just seems like 32 would have slightly more active frames than 243. Also less recovery if for some reason it whiffs.