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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Uh, pretty sure his MK9 teleport was his best one before the nerf.
No, it had nothing on mk dcs teleport lol. He could wake up using it easily and it was much faster. Mk 9s wasnt bad and had good speed, it just wasnt mk vs dc level. Not even close.

His MK vs DC people complained it was broken lol. Check out this vid.
 
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No, it had nothing on mk dcs teleport lol. He could wake up using it easily and it was much faster. Mk 9s wasnt bad and had good speed, it just wasnt mk vs dc level. Not even close.

His MK vs DC people complained it was broken lol. Check out this vid.
Oh, right, I keep forgetting that shitty game exists.
 

JeffX

Remove armor on fatal blows now
I actually went back and looked at some of the Injustice 2 Raiden stuff. He had some interesting stuff in that game, too bad they weren't able to incorporate more of that into one of his MK11 builds.
Not really. He was quite literally the worst character in that game. He had some teleport set ups in the corner. But trait had to be activated to use far teleport and bolt stop. Basically they handicapped him by making his trait the way you’re supposed to play him. He should have had access to all of his trait kit and the trait should have been master of storm orbs. That would have given him some much needed space control.

Mk11 raiden I still feel is better than that mess from injustice 2.
 

samiorfali

Raiden Player since the 90s
it just happened that s2 is 11, one of the slowest high in the game.
it just happed that b12 is -9 and other characters mids can be safe.
it just happed that raiden has only one plus string and it has a huge gap., all other strings are minus.
it just happened that his projectiles are the slowest when other characters are 15 to20 frames startup.
it just happened that his KBS reqs are silly, when jax, garas and others are easy.
it just happed that raiden has weak offense and his overhead is stupid when sonya tshang erron all have godlike mixups.
i could go for ages...

Raiden was weak in MKX he got nerfed, weak in I2 and is the same in MK11.
What side are you guys on?

SUPPORT #BUFFRAIDEN mania EVEN IF IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE TO YOU!!

common sense says raiden shouldnt be that weak, that is what us raiden players here should be taking about.
 
Its making me sick that us raiden players disagreeing instead of supporting
Having a balanced discussion is important. If we all just agreed with each other we wouldn't know which ideas are good or bad, or what needs work. This is also useless feedback for any developers that happen to be reading any of this if all of us are just high fiving each other to let Raiden have a 6 frame overhead or something.
A lot of us do agree on stuff, but the idea of just blindly supporting because we're Raiden players doesn't make sense. We want buffs, but we want smart buffs.
Nobody wants Raiden to become Liu Kang or something. Disagreement also doesn't mean that person doesn't want buffs or to support.

Going hard in the paint isn't a good design philosophy just because the character is weak. Let's step away from the mob mentality statements maybe.

Ok what are some reasonable buffs that could be possible?
Check out the last 5 pages or so of this thread, or even the Buff Requests thread.
 
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Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Check out the last 5 pages or so of this thread, or even the Buff Requests thread.
I find a lot of ppl forget we have this thread and had some discussion on this topic.

Ok what are some reasonable buffs that could be possible?
He mostly needs frame data tweaks here and there, as well as hitbox fixes to certain moves so they don’t whiff.
FIX HITBOX OF:
  • s3 to hit crouch blocking opponents
  • F1 to reflect the actual length of staff
  • D2 so it doesn’t whiff on people neutral jumping
  • U2 same as D2
  • EITHER: storm cell or B12 so TW combos can hit female hitboxes the same as male ones, no reason for us to do less damage to females just because storm cell whiffs after B12
(Might be missing something here but these are just off the top of my mind)

Frame data changes:
  • Make lighning strike safer at full screen on block and on whiff. Doesn’t need to be super safe, just safer so characters can’t just punish him for throwing a full screen zoning tool
  • Bolt could start up a bit faster so he can check opponents’ projectiles a bit easier
  • F3/F32 made a bit safer (debatable since flawless block reversals add another layer of mind games, can do without)
  • B14 safer (acts to punish delayed WU and compliments B12 since B12 ends in a high), maybe the 4 overhead could be faster too since you’re using this to catch people off guard anyway
  • Maybe S2 made a bit faster so make it easier to jail into highs after pokes or F3 (but Raiden can effectively jail into F3 after poke or F3 on hit so not sure if really needed, 243 is the closest he has to an auto-shimmy though so if this is buffed Raiden might be quite good, NEEDS MORE DISCUSSION)
That’s all I have off the top of my mind.
 

samiorfali

Raiden Player since the 90s
I find a lot of ppl forget we have this thread and had some discussion on this topic.


He mostly needs frame data tweaks here and there, as well as hitbox fixes to certain moves so they don’t whiff.
FIX HITBOX OF:
  • s3 to hit crouch blocking opponents
  • F1 to reflect the actual length of staff
  • D2 so it doesn’t whiff on people neutral jumping
  • U2 same as D2
  • EITHER: storm cell or B12 so TW combos can hit female hitboxes the same as male ones, no reason for us to do less damage to females just because storm cell whiffs after B12
(Might be missing something here but these are just off the top of my mind)

Frame data changes:
  • Make lighning strike safer at full screen on block and on whiff. Doesn’t need to be super safe, just safer so characters can’t just punish him for throwing a full screen zoning tool
  • Bolt could start up a bit faster so he can check opponents’ projectiles a bit easier
  • F3/F32 made a bit safer (debatable since flawless block reversals add another layer of mind games, can do without)
  • B14 safer (acts to punish delayed WU and compliments B12 since B12 ends in a high), maybe the 4 overhead could be faster too since you’re using this to catch people off guard anyway
  • Maybe S2 made a bit faster so make it easier to jail into highs after pokes or F3 (but Raiden can effectively jail into F3 after poke or F3 on hit so not sure if really needed, 243 is the closest he has to an auto-shimmy though so if this is buffed Raiden might be quite good, NEEDS MORE DISCUSSION)
That’s all I have off the top of my mind.
Agreed. Thank u
 
I just want to say that I think making Storm Cell safe would be super cheap and it would ruin the character design. He would just spam d1-db2 like this was Injustice 2 with Shocker. F4-db2. B12-DB2. And if it hits, good damage and 60% corner carry. B12 is unsafe by itself to prevent him from getting free mid/full combo checks with that, just making DB2 safe is antithecal to his design. It would turn a meticulous and interesting character into a character for babies. And there is no character in the game who has a free auto hit confirm safe special into combo like that.

If you want to buff him, make the cool shit better like better F1 or slightly better cancel advantage on cancels.

how about instead of making it super safe on block, make it not end with a high that turns into a krushing blow 50% combo.
he needs serious help
 

samiorfali

Raiden Player since the 90s
can you please not judge the "tier" by frame data? raiden has no pressure, that is true. he also is not supposed to, he is a punisher with great range and movement. the character works, no matter how bad the frame data is. just dont try to rushdown.
People like you make NRS not fix raiden.
Who would even think to say not to judge tier by frame data, i mean how old are u?!!!
If wht u are saying is true then why arent except one raiden player in the top 100 ranked players.
Stop the negativity and support!!!!
 

rainuS

Prince of Edenia
Lol Just lost to frost 3rd variation, she received full screen divekick which is low and -7 on block.
No words. She can literally spam this move being safe.
 

JeffX

Remove armor on fatal blows now
People like you make NRS not fix raiden.
Who would even think to say not to judge tier by frame data, i mean how old are u?!!!
If wht u are saying is true then why arent except one raiden player in the top 100 ranked players.
Stop the negativity and support!!!!
Just report him. That’s the most offensive post I’ve seen on here lol.
 

JeffX

Remove armor on fatal blows now
Lol Just lost to frost 3rd variation, she received full screen divekick which is low and -7 on block.
No words. She can literally spam this move being safe.
yeah I posted about this a few days ago. There’s virtually nothing you can do. You attempt to grab her she does a d1. You attempt to poke she just blocks and takes her turn back. It’s actually worse than scorpions teleport in this current build in terms of bullshit. I had to switch to Cassie and won by f41 fatal blow only because the dude refused to block. Next game I lost a 22 game win streak to jade new fatal blow 50/50. Need a break from the game.
 

rainuS

Prince of Edenia
I dont get why they gave it to her this move is just dumbest thing in MK11 it covers full screen cant be punished and she dominates the air.
She canp jum like Lao and u cant anti air you cant do anything! Full scrren divekick being low and -7 on block is what negates footsies and this game should be footsie based.
Its super spamable braindead move why nrs why while we have to block confirm a 11f mid lol
 
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JeffX

Remove armor on fatal blows now
I dont get why they gave it to her this move is just dumbest thing in MK11 it covers full screen cant be punished and she dominates the air.
It also looks like an overhead, but nope it turns into a low it wiffs.

when I went into practice and actually looked at When frame data, my immediate reaction was fuck you NRS. And that’s still my reaction. A decent QA analyst would not let this into the main game. Couldnt figure out a way to punish the augers short of maybe a character with a fast reversal and a combo extension should be punishable most of the time.

Go on the frost page and they’re saying this variation is pretty fun, she needs that dive kick. Meanwhile Mandalore over here is doing everything he can to keep this Raiden as shit as possible.
 

samiorfali

Raiden Player since the 90s
I dont get why they gave it to her this move is just dumbest thing in MK11 it covers full screen cant be punished and she dominates the air.
She canp jum like Lao and u cant anti air you cant do anything! Full scrren divekick being low and -7 on block is what negates footsies and this game should be footsie based.
Its super spamable braindead move why nrs why while we have to block confirm a 11f mid lol
MK11 is dumb
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
People like you make NRS not fix raiden.
Who would even think to say not to judge tier by frame data, i mean how old are u?!!!
If wht u are saying is true then why arent except one raiden player in the top 100 ranked players.
Stop the negativity and support!!!!
He’s stating how the character is designed and how he is meant to play according to the tools NRS has given him. Stop this lynch mob mentality. He hasn’t said anything wrong. Frame data alone doesn’t determine how good a character is. You need to look at all the tools he has in conjunction with the game mechanics in context.