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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
Look, if we really want to go deep into what Raiden does worse than the rest of the cast, then listen up. You will know it's true when you hear it. It's undeniable, and inexcusable. Nobody else I can think of has worse outros. There are so many awesome outros in this game and when I saw his base one I was like "what"?

"Ahhhh I will hold my hands out awkwardly to you while having odd posture! Electricity Ahhhhh!"

I thought OK, that's just one of many and certainly they can't all be bad. They are. You all know it's true, and those that don't are wrong. We deserved better, Sajam said so.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Lol his outros are ok, seen better, seen worse but his Intros are among the best. :D
 

JeffX

Remove armor on fatal blows now
Going to say this once and only once for a certain someone, If you want Raiden to be better, he needs buffs. Period. Not saying to be broken, but needs buffs. Or have fun with your low tier Thunder God. That is all.


Glad someone actually has logic here ^. Couldn't agree more.





Yes, I agree with it being useful combo extender, but just saying. I wasn't talking about that or you're misunderstanding me, I never said it was useless. I said his Superman KB and B2 are useless(and please note I'm talking about the KB not the mix ups since some of you seem to not get this) It's not unreasonable to make Raiden better, unless you enjoy struggling against a ton of characters in this game with Raiden's current lower tier status then be my guest. But don't tell me "this isn't good, that's not good" when you're not contributing to how to make him better, all you're doing is trying to lowball my ideas. I'm sure most Raiden players would agree. I'm not talking about Summon Lightning, I'm talking about Storm Cell. I'm talking about his TW, I don't use his Raijin variation. They buffed that, now they need to buff TW I mean really, his lightning strike "buff" is a joke.

New here, but have been an NRS player since MK9 and a Raiden main both games. I've been following your thoughts on Raiden and couldn't agree more. While I think capture state on lightning strike wouldn't really solve much, most of his other flaws that you've pointed out are irrefutable.

The obvious offender is the f112 string. The first hit is so limited in it's viability, but the big oversight is -13 on the 2. Typically to convert you'd go for f11 superman/ cancel/ SC/. You ought to be able to finish the string and cause a fair deal of pushback similar to Kabal's extend hook. If this string got a complete rework similar to Kollector's s443, he might be able to achieve something. But right now, you need to spend resources to keep yourself safe whenever you start pressure. Just safe. Superman cancel or distance teleport. If you have no defense bar and you start offense in TW, be prepared to eat shit.

After superman cancels your best bets are: back dash- f4/ f3/ j3/ d4. None of this leads to much if you're opponent knows the matchup.

His archetype is obviously defense in TW, so make the lightning strike significantly safer. I'm talking -10 to -14. Unsafe enough son if you do it point blank you could potentially eat a full combo, but none of this -29 from full screen garbage when Geraw gets away with murder. I've seen other posters talking about this since the game's release, and was blown away that he received zero changes to his core tool chest.

How egregious some of the oversight in this game are is a different topic, but Raiden TW right now is a character that really has no place in this game. You have characters like Kollector who have been improved sure, but f12 bola mb at max range cannot combo because there's not enough hit stun/ advantage.

I'm not going to list what I think needs to be changed besides those two items, because those requests fell on deaf ears last time, but hopefully the community for this character can make a bit more noise.
 
Going to say this once and only once for a certain someone, If you want Raiden to be better, he needs buffs. Period. Not saying to be broken, but needs buffs. Or have fun with your low tier Thunder God. That is all.
I'm not saying he doesn't need buffs; I'm saying Storm Cell doesn't need buffs.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Yes, I agree with it being useful combo extender, but just saying. I wasn't talking about that or you're misunderstanding me, I never said it was useless. I said his Superman KB and B2 are useless(and please note I'm talking about the KB not the mix ups since some of you seem to not get this) It's not unreasonable to make Raiden better, unless you enjoy struggling against a ton of characters in this game with Raiden's current lower tier status then be my guest. But don't tell me "this isn't good, that's not good" when you're not contributing to how to make him better, all you're doing is trying to lowball my ideas. I'm sure most Raiden players would agree. I'm not talking about Summon Lightning, I'm talking about Storm Cell. I'm talking about his TW, I don't use his Raijin variation. They buffed that, now they need to buff TW I mean really, his lightning strike "buff" is a joke.
Sigh. If you look back on the discussion pages I have listed out multiple times what buffs I want for TW. I only started playing Raijin this patch because of the buffs. I have never once said he didn’t need buffs. However there are certain buffs that Raiden should receive that solve his problems, and other buffs on top of his already good moves are unnecessary. If you want to see what I think, just scroll back forward or look at the buffs thread.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I'm not saying he doesn't need buffs; I'm saying Storm Cell doesn't need buffs.
I'm saying he needs either storm cell or something else. Either or would make me happy.
Sigh. If you look back on the discussion pages I have listed out multiple times what buffs I want for TW. I only started playing Raijin this patch because of the buffs. I have never once said he didn’t need buffs. However there are certain buffs that Raiden should receive that solve his problems, and other buffs on top of his already good moves are unnecessary. If you want to see what I think, just scroll back forward or look at the buffs thread.
Ok but like you just putting my input, as long as hes not broken I dont see what the issue is with buffing TW which obviously needs buffs. We may differ in what that is but like I told you earlier, I have no problem agreeing to disagree. Knew way to fix his problems would be to buff or make his existing moves or some not all better. At this point I really dont care if its safer moves or better mix ups or improving his specials.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
New here, but have been an NRS player since MK9 and a Raiden main both games. I've been following your thoughts on Raiden and couldn't agree more. While I think capture state on lightning strike wouldn't really solve much, most of his other flaws that you've pointed out are irrefutable.

The obvious offender is the f112 string. The first hit is so limited in it's viability, but the big oversight is -13 on the 2. Typically to convert you'd go for f11 superman/ cancel/ SC/. You ought to be able to finish the string and cause a fair deal of pushback similar to Kabal's extend hook. If this string got a complete rework similar to Kollector's s443, he might be able to achieve something. But right now, you need to spend resources to keep yourself safe whenever you start pressure. Just safe. Superman cancel or distance teleport. If you have no defense bar and you start offense in TW, be prepared to eat shit.

After superman cancels your best bets are: back dash- f4/ f3/ j3/ d4. None of this leads to much if you're opponent knows the matchup.

His archetype is obviously defense in TW, so make the lightning strike significantly safer. I'm talking -10 to -14. Unsafe enough son if you do it point blank you could potentially eat a full combo, but none of this -29 from full screen garbage when Geraw gets away with murder. I've seen other posters talking about this since the game's release, and was blown away that he received zero changes to his core tool chest.

How egregious some of the oversight in this game are is a different topic, but Raiden TW right now is a character that really has no place in this game. You have characters like Kollector who have been improved sure, but f12 bola mb at max range cannot combo because there's not enough hit stun/ advantage.

I'm not going to list what I think needs to be changed besides those two items, because those requests fell on deaf ears last time, but hopefully the community for this character can make a bit more noise.
Exactly, mk 9 and mix especially raiden was more than viable. Mk 11 not so much, thanks for understanding my perspective. Hes definitely a more counter, defensive with a tad of zoning character that has to bait you and punish with f3, f4 combos etc I too am shocked that his TW got nothing. It's almost as if nrs wants him to be low in this game.

You're right on the other point as well this game has alot of flaws mechanically but like you said that's a whole other can of worms.

Lastly, welcome to the site.
 

Black Chapters

Legend of Legaia Main
Honestly, fuck Storm Cell. Raiden is a zoner more anyway.

I'd rather they focus on that. Lightning Storm being as is makes no sense when every other character with air moves can just do them while hes stuck in one spot.

Lightning Rod lasts long enough for 2 shots, why would you ever use that? Adding to that it has no range.
 
Buffing stormcell would make Raiden annoying but being frank there are a lot of characters with annoying gimmicks in this game.

You could give TW quickcharge and he still wouldn't be overpowered.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I just want to say that I think making Storm Cell safe would be super cheap and it would ruin the character design. He would just spam d1-db2 like this was Injustice 2 with Shocker. F4-db2. B12-DB2. And if it hits, good damage and 60% corner carry. B12 is unsafe by itself to prevent him from getting free mid/full combo checks with that, just making DB2 safe is antithecal to his design. It would turn a meticulous and interesting character into a character for babies. And there is no character in the game who has a free auto hit confirm safe special into combo like that.

If you want to buff him, make the cool shit better like better F1 or slightly better cancel advantage on cancels.
 
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MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
It wouldn't be the end of the world I'd sc got buffed, I mean when you consider the rest of the dumb shit in this game. Heres hoping his fellow element God is better.
 

JeffX

Remove armor on fatal blows now
I just want to say that I think making Storm Cell safe would be super cheap and it would ruin the character design. He would just spam d1-db2 like this was Injustice 2 with Shocker. F4-db2. B12-DB2. And if it hits, good damage and 60% corner carry. B12 is unsafe by itself to prevent him from getting free mid/full combo checks with that, just making DB2 safe is antithecal to his design. It would turn a meticulous and interesting character into a character for babies. And there is no character in the game who has a free auto hit confirm safe special into combo like that.

If you want to buff him, make the cool shit better like better F1 or slightly better cancel advantage on cancels.
This is basically spot on. I feel as though the superman cancels off b12 should be 0 on block or slightly plus like mean streak. F112 string and lightning strike. Lets see how he plays then. Guaranteed much better.

I really hope it doesn't take another 4 months for a patch though.
 
Yeah I poke too a lot, I just wish they weren't overpowered by throws. Like you ever duck and poke or just duck and get thrown anyway? lol
Just keep training and labbing against as many matchups as you can bro; matchup knowledge is huge. I've landed B2 KB on very good players; yes it's not superfast, but it's meant to be a "mind games" tool, when they expect that hit, you go for a low string instead, or a throw, or a "delayed" B2 with a little hop first or a stance switch to make them twitch and react...
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Just keep training and labbing against as many matchups as you can bro; matchup knowledge is huge. I've landed B2 KB on very good players; yes it's not superfast, but it's meant to be a "mind games" tool, when they expect that hit, you go for a low string instead, or a throw, or a "delayed" B2 with a little hop first or a stance switch to make them twitch and react...
Yeah for sure, a lot of match ups for Raiden are tougher but he's fun to use and can take some people off guard. I've only landed it on newer players in Apprentice during KL, pretty much never landed it on anyone good higher than that level though. I think if you're a Raiden player and manage to land that against a solid player, they're lucky because I've never seen that in a tournament or serious high level match when watching other Raiden players lol. Great for mix ups, bad for KB reliability though. So I def agree great for mindgames/50/50's tool, I just wish it had more range, was a bit faster and KB wasn't as tough(with the twice in a row) Instead I would change it to KB activates on third time connecting it in a match. But the throwing issue has nothing to do with Raiden per-se that's just the games wacky mechanics with throws being really powerful in this game. His hop kick is actually really, really good. Has decent sweep range and I've found works great against wake up attacks if you have someone in the corner, back up a little and do hop kick. People often don't expect it.
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
Heeeey raiden has officially become the worst character in the game since kano is getting a mid.

Played around a little with rod and push. If they dont change the frame data to much there bland very bland push has some interesting applications but at max range being -15 a really terrible anti-air and -22 up dont see this being used at all. Raidens problem with all his variations has never been his damage he just so unsafe on absolute everything.

LR has some gimmicks however it looks like you can land any normal plus 14 or better on hit and amp LR. This guarantees hit into plus 21 also keeping note that LR plant also acts as a mid normal -22 amp -17.

Raiden legit needs some frame help if he wantsto get out ofthe cellar :(
 

JeffX

Remove armor on fatal blows now
they chose the 2 moves you can't even use together and needed to change the input for Jo

its a lackluster variant

Yeah when I heard that I thought... they genuinely don't give a shit about this character. Lightning storm and super bolt close cancels would have been so good.
 

JeffX

Remove armor on fatal blows now
Heeeey raiden has officially become the worst character in the game since kano is getting a mid.

Played around a little with rod and push. If they dont change the frame data to much there bland very bland push has some interesting applications but at max range being -15 a really terrible anti-air and -22 up dont see this being used at all. Raidens problem with all his variations has never been his damage he just so unsafe on absolute everything.

LR has some gimmicks however it looks like you can land any normal plus 14 or better on hit and amp LR. This guarantees hit into plus 21 also keeping note that LR plant also acts as a mid normal -22 amp -17.

Raiden legit needs some frame help if he wantsto get out ofthe cellar :(
He's been the worst for a while now. You simply cannot place Him in a tier above Show Kahn or Kotal Kahn. I don't know what they were thinking with his design, but he needs to spend resources every time he just wants to be safe. Meanwhile Liu Kang just mashes f4 for days.

This should have been lightning storms and super bolt. Super bolt would have given him actual cancel pressure and lightning storm is easily his best variation move. But they give us another lame setup move and a combo starter that is worse than storm cell. I'm really sick of the treatment of this character, and it's mostly because there's no community for him this time. Rewin doesn't play him, Nivek doesn't play him, etc, and it doesn't seem like anyone on the dev teams cares very much.

Raiden needed way more help than Kitana, but I'm sure 16bit was raising hell for Kitana buffs. Doesn't NRS Dizzy play Raiden?
 

Wizanski

Buff Raiden
All 6 of us Raiden mains on this game need to get as obnoxious as we can all across social media to get buffs.

It seems to be what you have to do to get buffs.
 

JeffX

Remove armor on fatal blows now
All 6 of us Raiden mains on this game need to get as obnoxious as we can all across social media to get buffs.

It seems to be what you have to do to get buffs.
You're honestly right. But doing it on this site doesn't't look like it's working.
 

Wizanski

Buff Raiden
Gotta abuse twitter and reddit and harass NRS staff. But by harass I mean in lighthearted but yet persistent ways.

"Buff Raiden" needs to become a meme.
 

rainuS

Prince of Edenia
ok his bo push switches sides and he gets less damage than his other 2 variations its even worse than I though,
B12 bo push(mb) (side switch) forward2, 12 superman is only 292 for 1 bar and switches sides. I guess its optimal combo.
This variation is going to be the worst one im pretty sure Raiden is dead now.

 
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JeffX

Remove armor on fatal blows now
ok his bo push switches sides and he gets less damage than his other 2 variations its even worse than I though,
B12 bo push(mb) (side switch) forward2, 12 superman is only 292 for 1 bar and switches sides. I guess its optimal combo.
If you end in the anti air lighting you get a little over 300. It's still easily the worst two slot move in the game as it stands. I guess we'll see when the patch hits.