Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Marlow]

I just started to look at Raiden. Is there any breakdown or general guide yet breaking down his normals, strings, and specials?

 

[Buster Skruggs]

Guys, how can I reset the opponent on hit using discharge in order to restand them? I can't do it.

They have to be air born and don't use the amp version

 

[Mandolore1123]

So REO just made a video on what he dislikes about MK11. Among his points was the half-screen backwards teleports that Raiden, Skarlet and Cetrion have access to for only 1 defensive meter. He recommends they increase the cost to 2 bars as he feels they are very powerful and it is impossible to corner them. What are your opinions?

 

[kabelfritz]

So REO just made a video on what he dislikes about MK11. Among his points was the half-screen backwards teleports that Raiden, Skarlet and Cetrion have access to for only 1 defensive meter. He recommends they increase the cost to 2 bars as he feels they are very powerful and it is impossible to corner them. What are your opinions?

nonsense. i was thinking about making a joke "nerf raiden" thread, but not even for that purpose i had the slightest idea what could be tackled. raiden is a honest character and everyone should be more like him. seriously, he wants me to eat 15 seconds of free oki pressure for ONE FAR TELEPORT? get out.

 

[SLy]

Yea far lightnings being punished sucks. We already have to make the read giving its slow startup. Not only that but it HAS to hit or else.

 

[Nortnauq]

nonsense. i was thinking about making a joke "nerf raiden" thread, but not even for that purpose i had the slightest idea what could be tackled. raiden is a honest character and everyone should be more like him. seriously, he wants me to eat 15 seconds of free oki pressure for ONE FAR TELEPORT? get out.

This.
He might be the most honest character in MK11...
The fact that he can teleport far (for one defensive bar of meter) means that because of the distance he also, like you, can't apply pressure or do anything other than zone. (or potentially teleport again to get in but, that's a super easy read to punish.)
Which, if you play Raiden at all you know that his zoning is basically non-existent.
I can't speak for Skarlet, Kollector or Cetrion as REO named but, as far as Raiden goes he's very rarely using far teleport simply because his zoning is lackluster. (unless he's in the corner but even then, you can't just YOLO tele out of the corner, you need to do a blockstring into tele...)
Also, I would much rather save my defensive bar(s) for Electric Fly cancel pressure due to again, his zoning being so slow and negative.
All in all, I feel that if NRS made Sparkport (far) two bars of defensive meter that his Electric Fly cancel pressure would suffer even more than it already does.
In closing, REO is known for telling people to stop complaining about characters and that we just need to play the game so, keep that in mind next time he says anything negative.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Yeah, I find it surprising that he feels these teleports are too powerful. It’s not like he gets a lot of them. And once he uses a far teleport he has no access to breakaway and one less roll and one less wake-up.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I just started to look at Raiden. Is there any breakdown or general guide yet breaking down his normals, strings, and specials?

No official guide as of yet. Sorry

 

[Mandolore1123]

Why does it seem like Jacqui's mid goes over Raiden's D3 just because the leg of Raiden goes under Jacqui's raised leg? Granted I was playing against some wifi user with 180 ping and I'm really tilted but is this an actual problem Raiden has?

 

[santanabar]

Why does it seem like Jacqui's mid goes over Raiden's D3 just because the leg of Raiden goes under Jacqui's raised leg? Granted I was playing against some wifi user with 180 ping and I'm really tilted but is this an actual problem Raiden has?

game is plagued with hitbox issues, when I plan jacqui ton of characters low profile my f3, i guess with raiden is the other way around

 

[Raidenwins]

I don’t know how others are using f2, but I use it pretty successfully as a gap closer when I need to go in for damage. It recovers so so fast on whiff it’s pretty crazy. Almost as fast as a d1. I space it so the f2 actually won’t hit, but right next to the opponent. They think they can punish with their punisher button when they see raiden whiffs the f2. But no my boy. The 121 string comes so fast after the whiff f2 it eats their meaty 90% of the time. That’s how I’ve been getting KB 121 most games. And plus, it’s only -3 on block.

That's a really nice technique! I am going to have to practice that and, if it works consistently, add it to my repertoire.

 

[RedShaggy]

Why does it seem like Jacqui's mid goes over Raiden's D3 just because the leg of Raiden goes under Jacqui's raised leg? Granted I was playing against some wifi user with 180 ping and I'm really tilted but is this an actual problem Raiden has?

I get this on a few people, the hitboxes and model profiles are a weird mix of good & bad so you get weird matchup specific whiffs like this. Feels bad but just another thing to improve on I suppose!

 

[Raidenwins]

So REO just made a video on what he dislikes about MK11. Among his points was the half-screen backwards teleports that Raiden, Skarlet and Cetrion have access to for only 1 defensive meter. He recommends they increase the cost to 2 bars as he feels they are very powerful and it is impossible to corner them. What are your opinions?

It is very much possible to corner Raiden. I get cornered plenty online, plus I am pretty sure the Raiden players at Combo Breaker (all two of them) got cornered at least a few times. Granted, it's more difficult to corner him than many other characters, but that's the whole point of his gameplan, i.e. he is a hit and run character, just like in MK9 or Displacer Raiden in MKX.

The way I see it, Raiden is average to good at several aspects of the gameplay, i.e damage output (average), whiff punishing (good), corner pressure (good), neutral game (average at best), zoning (weaker than average), and he is only great at two things, corner carry and mobility. That's why he is a very honest character overall. If you weaken his mobility, like REO is suggesting, then he'll most likely really struggle to keep with the rest of the cast.

 

[The ice hammer]

It is very much possible to corner Raiden. I get cornered plenty online, plus I am pretty sure the Raiden players at Combo Breaker (all two of them) got cornered at least a few times. Granted, it's more difficult to corner him than many other characters, but that's the whole point of his gameplan, i.e. he is a hit and run character, just like in MK9 or Displacer Raiden in MKX.

The way I see it, Raiden is average to good at several aspects of the gameplay, i.e damage output (average), whiff punishing (good), corner pressure (good), neutral game (average at best), zoning (weaker than average), and he is only great at two things, corner carry and mobility. That's why he is a very honest character overall. If you weaken his mobility, like REO is suggesting, then he'll most likely really struggle to keep with the rest of the cast.

I get cornered quite a bit too. The Briggs family can reallly mess raiden up, up close. Teleport is too slow to use to get out when you’re getting pressured. You either poke into teleport cancel which is pretty tough for me to execute or just up and Superman out of the corner. The latter is no good against Geras as he can get a free Kb as raiden lands lol.

 

[Raidenwins]

I understand your argument from the perspective of fun and with what MKX Raiden was like.

However, the last hit of Storm Cell being a mid and thus becoming fully safe would be beyond broken.

Would it though? How is that different from D1 ~ DF2 or D3 ~ DF2 in MKX? He wouldn't be able to loop it or anything, just have a safe block string into a special. I was thinking about this while watching Kombat play Raiden at Combo Breaker. All he was doing for block string pressure was B1, 2, which does a tiny amount of damage and it feels so incomplete.

And if that doesn't work, what about the last hit of Storm Cell (AMP) only being a Mid? That would prevent people from abusing it and still give Raiden a good block pressure tool. He would just have to use it a lot more strategically than simply throwing it out at any time.

 

[kabelfritz]

Would it though? How is that different from D1 ~ DF2 or D3 ~ DF2 in MKX? He wouldn't be able to loop it or anything, just have a safe block string into a special. I was thinking about this while watching Kombat play Raiden at Combo Breaker. All he was doing for block string pressure was B1, 2.

And if that doesn't work, what about the last hit of Storm Cell (AMP) only being a Mid? That would prevent people from abusing it and still give Raiden a good block pressure tool. He would just have to use it a lot more strategically than simply throwing out at any time.

i wish we could just accept that not everyone is a pressure character.

 

[DDutchguy]

Would it though? How is that different from D1 ~ DF2 or D3 ~ DF2 in MKX? He wouldn't be able to loop it or anything, just have a safe block string into a special. I was thinking about this while watching Kombat play Raiden at Combo Breaker. All he was doing for block string pressure was B1, 2, which does a tiny amount of damage and it feels so incomplete.

And if that doesn't work, what about the last hit of Storm Cell (AMP) only being a Mid? That would prevent people from abusing it and still give Raiden a good block pressure tool. He would just have to use it a lot more strategically than simply throwing it out at any time.

• Because MKX and MK11 are extremely different games with very different metas. Raiden would uniquely have something very strong in the form of a special that does great chip, has good pushback, one of the best hitboxes in the game and on top of that is completely safe. It’d allow him to get pretty free whiff punishes afterwards if the opponent tries to do anything, due to it only being -3 with pushback. If the opponent respects the -3, he could just loop B12~Storm Cell until the opponent dares to do something, which he can whiff punish because he has some of the bext rang3 in the game.
• It would completely remove any hit confirming from the character, meaning Raiden would solely be able to do anything without risk.
• It always gives a full combo on hit if you have bar (which you are more likely to have in MK11 than in MKX) whereas in MKX you would need to commit to an unsafe EX shocker. For this reason D1~Storm Cell is not comparable to D1~Shocker, as it is straight up better in a game that has all characters essentially be worse than in MKX due to its nature.

Bottom line, I think it would be very very bad if the last hit of Storm Cell became a mid and it was safe. As for only Amped Storm Cell giving the mid, it wouldn’t be as broken but personally I still think it would be pretty dumb. For a bar he would be able to commit to literally anything special cancelable. It’d also encourage gimmicky play like the mixup between D1 on block and D1~Storm Cell Amp on block, which is devoid of any real strategy.

 

[santanabar]

it's ok storm cell is not safe
but b12 should be

 

[Raidenwins]

• Because MKX and MK11 are extremely different games with very different metas. Raiden would uniquely have something very strong in the form of a special that does great chip, has good pushback, one of the best hitboxes in the game and on top of that is completely safe. It’d allow him to get pretty free whiff punishes afterwards if the opponent tries to do anything, due to it only being -3 with pushback. If the opponent respects the -3, he could just loop B12~Storm Cell until the opponent dares to do something, which he can whiff punish because he has some of the bext rang3 in the game.
• It would completely remove any hit confirming from the character, meaning Raiden would solely be able to do anything without risk.
• It always gives a full combo on hit if you have bar (which you are more likely to have in MK11 than in MKX) whereas in MKX you would need to commit to an unsafe EX shocker. For this reason D1~Storm Cell is not comparable to D1~Shocker, as it is straight up better in a game that has all characters essentially be worse than in MKX due to its nature.

Bottom line, I think it would be very very bad if the last hit of Storm Cell became a mid and it was safe. As for only Amped Storm Cell giving the mid, it wouldn’t be as broken but personally I still think it would be pretty dumb. For a bar he would be able to commit to literally anything special cancelable. It’d also encourage gimmicky play like the mixup between D1 on block and D1~Storm Cell Amp on block, which is devoid of any real strategy.

Alrighty then. I was with you, right up until you characterized my second idea as "dumb". That's unfortunate, as we were having a productive and civilized discussion until then. You shouldn't do that. It makes our board look bad and ruins good discussions.

 

[Wallach]

I mentioned this in the Shang trailer thread, but I think they changed Raiden's electric fly KB for the June patch (Shang DLC). In the trailer when Shang copies Raiden and does a storm cell combo, he ends in air electric fly which KBs.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I mentioned this in the Shang trailer thread, but I think they changed Raiden's electric fly KB for the June patch (Shang DLC). In the trailer when Shang copies Raiden and does a storm cell combo, he ends in air electric fly which KBs.

Inb4 only Shang has access to this KB and he becomes a better version of Raiden with Shang’s storm cell being mid all 3 hits

 

[Darth-Nero]

I mentioned this in the Shang trailer thread, but I think they changed Raiden's electric fly KB for the June patch (Shang DLC). In the trailer when Shang copies Raiden and does a storm cell combo, he ends in air electric fly which KBs.

I am so looking forward for the patch that comes with shang to see what more ridiculous kb conditions they normalized. Also am wondering if Shang gets both his own kbs plus the kbs of his opponent after soul steal? cuz that sounds broken.

 

[FlawlessVictory127]

I mentioned this in the Shang trailer thread, but I think they changed Raiden's electric fly KB for the June patch (Shang DLC). In the trailer when Shang copies Raiden and does a storm cell combo, he ends in air electric fly which KBs.

This is how his electric fly KB was in the prerelease build. Automatic KB if you did an amplified air electric fly on someone that was also in the air. Hopefully it’s reverted back to that.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

This is how his electric fly KB was in the prerelease build. Automatic KB if you did an amplified air electric fly on someone that was also in the air. Hopefully it’s reverted back to that.

I think while this is much more useful in general it also creates a problem in that Storm Cell is the only way Raiden can get this KB without scoring an air-to-air with fly, making Thunder Wave more attractive than it already is. We need more reasons to pick Raijin too.

Hopefully in the future when we get more variations we'll also get tweaks on ways to get KBs like this, or just adjust it to be achievable in Raijin as well somehow.
It also bothers me that we have another KB on Super Bolt, which is never going to get used until it gets improvements.

 

[DDutchguy]

Alrighty then. I was with you, right up until you characterized my second idea as "dumb". That's unfortunate, as we were having a productive and civilized discussion until then. You shouldn't do that. It makes our board look bad and ruins good discussions.

Using the word dumb doesn’t need to be uncivil as it just shows my subjective thoughts on the idea. I’m not calling you dumb for suggesting it.