Match-up Discussion Lobo Matchup Discussion 2014

[Captain Oxygen]

I used to seriously hate the Flash MU, but since then I'm pretty convinced it's even.
Lobo's damage and mixup game are better than the flash's, he has better wakeup, he has nuclear shells.
Flash can whiff punish any trait attempts, he has better footsies and faster normals.

I try to punish both torpedo followups with Czar Toss to negate any shenanigans, getting that free 6% chip every time I get shells loaded in neutral is awesome. If he trys to circumvent your wakeup hook charge without meter, wakeup spin cycle will work. Flash's wakeup is highly punishable. He can't just toss out random torpedos in neutral unless he wants to be punished with a full combo, he has to read that your gonna shoot him. His frame advantage and footsies are hard to deal with sometimes, but once you get the timing of fuzzying low/overhead it's easier. Still it's annoying the flash can dash around and whiff punish you easily.

 

[MidTierHarley]

GL looks like a 3-7 to me. How does he knock him down? His zoning is ok but becomes really annoying if he gets the life lead. Minigun is pretty good in this matchup too. GLs b1 outranges anything Lobo has and controlls so much space with lift. I dont see how thiis can be a 4-6

 

[Vak Phoenix]

the only problem i have with lobo as a frost main is that i cannot parry his back 3 for forward 3. rest is piece of cake.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

the only problem i have with lobo as a frost main is that i cannot parry his back 3 for forward 3. rest is piece of cake.

That's the best part about Lobo. His B3/F3 gives no fucks about Joker, Batman, Frost, Zod's parries.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

That's the best part about Lobo. His B3/F3 gives no fucks about Joker, Batman, Frost, Zod's parries.

well hes dead if he tries to wake up, low chain, do that awkward dive thing or reload his nuttshells

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Me and @GGA Fill Pops worked out a Match up chart based on our experiences.

Aquaman 6-4
Ares 6-4
Bane 5-5
Batgirl 5-5
Batman 5-5
Black Adam 5-5
Catwoman 5-5
Cyborg 5-5
Doomsday 4-6
Deathstroke 5-5
Flash 5-5
Green Arrow 6-4
Green Lantern 5-5
Grundy 5-5
Harley Quinn 6-4
Hawkgirl 5-5
Joker 6-4
Killer Frost 5-5
Lex Luthor 4-6
MMH 5-5
Nightwing 6-4
Raven 6-4
Scorpion 6-4
Shazam 5-5
Sinestro 5-5
Superman 5-5
Wonder Woman 5-5
Zatanna 4-6
Zod 4-6

Winning = 8
Even = 17
Losing = 4

Thoughts?

 

[Yoaks]

Me and @GGA Fill Pops worked out a Match up chart based on our experiences.

Aquaman 6-4
Ares 6-4
Bane 5-5
Batgirl 5-5
Batman 5-5
Black Adam 5-5
Catwoman 5-5
Cyborg 5-5
Doomsday 4-6
Deathstroke 5-5
Flash 5-5
Green Arrow 6-4
Green Lantern 5-5
Grundy 5-5
Harley Quinn 6-4
Hawkgirl 5-5
Joker 6-4
Killer Frost 5-5
Lex Luthor 4-6
MMH 5-5
Nightwing 6-4
Raven 6-4
Scorpion 6-4
Shazam 4-6
Sinestro 5-5
Superman 5-5
Wonder Woman 5-5
Zatanna 4-6
Zod 4-6

Winning = 8
Even = 16
Losing = 5

Thoughts?

I agree with everything but Shazam! I think its even. What makes it 4-6 in your opinion?

 

[Captain Oxygen]

I probably just suck at the match, it feels annoying that he can actually play his terrible zoning game in this match.
He gets up for free, he can play his vortex game on us pretty easily. He does near the same damage as lobo.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Can I get the reason for Sinestro? I have it pegged at 4-6.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

His wakeup sucks and we dominate the mid range, if we block a B12, we can basically go to town on him.
Zoning isn't too much of an issue because LOLFORWARDDASH. Obviously when he gets trait it's tougher but whatever.
The only thing he really has over us is a vortex.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Are we able to duck Fear Blast at certain ranges like other characters can?

 

[JustPressingButtons]

I agree with everything but Shazam! I think its even. What makes it 4-6 in your opinion?

Also may we see your match up numbers?

And can't we have like all of ours on the op in a spoiler for reference?

 

[Captain Oxygen]

I changed the MU for shazam to even, I used to fight a local shazam a lot and lost like 90% of the time... that was prepatch lobo though. Since then my shazam experience has been limited.

 

[GGA Fill Pops]

Are we able to duck Fear Blast at certain ranges like other characters can?

yes and even if we block it we get a nuke shell to his face. also low hook destroys most all of his wake ups and if you time it right he cant even jump out of it and if you hit him on his invincibility frames of spider legs you have time to dash and 113 but its kinda hard but doable

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Also may we see your match up numbers?

And can't we have like all of ours on the op in a spoiler for reference?

@Cage Redfield is this possible?

 

[Yoaks]

At the request of @JustPressingButtons my Match Up Chart!

Aquaman 6-4
Ares 5-5 (could be in our favor, but I'm on the fence about it)
Bane 5-5
Batgirl 5-5
Batman 5-5
Black Adam 5-5
Catwoman 6-4
Cyborg 5-5 (need to play more)
Doomsday 4-6
Deathstroke 5-5
Flash 5-5
Green Arrow 6-4
Green Lantern 5-5 (really lvl'ed up in this mu)
Grundy 5-5
Harley Quinn 5-5
Hawkgirl 5-5 (lol)
Joker 6-4
Killer Frost 5-5 (need to play more)
Lex Luthor 4-6
MMH 5-5
Nightwing 6-4 (also lvl'ed up in this mu)
Raven 6-4
Scorpion 6-4
Shazam 5-5
Sinestro 5-5
Superman 4-6
Wonderwoman 4-6
Zatanna 4-6
Zod 4-6


Advantage: 7
Even: 16
Disadvantage: 6

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Me and @GGA Fill Pops worked out a Match up chart based on our experiences.

Aquaman 6-4
Ares 6-4
Bane 5-5
Batgirl 5-5
Batman 5-5
Black Adam 5-5
Catwoman 5-5
Cyborg 5-5
Doomsday 4-6
Deathstroke 5-5
Flash 5-5
Green Arrow 6-4
Green Lantern 5-5
Grundy 5-5
Harley Quinn 6-4
Hawkgirl 5-5
Joker 6-4
Killer Frost 5-5
Lex Luthor 4-6
MMH 5-5
Nightwing 6-4
Raven 6-4
Scorpion 6-4
Shazam 5-5
Sinestro 5-5
Superman 5-5
Wonder Woman 5-5
Zatanna 4-6
Zod 4-6

Winning = 8
Even = 17
Losing = 4

Thoughts?

Thank u so much for being awesome and accurate

 

[Cage Redfield]

@Cage Redfield is this possible?

Yeah, I can do that once people have posted their matchup charts.

Also, may I ask how Aquaman is now considered in our favor?

 

[Captain Oxygen]

We don't need to jump, when we have trait he cant FTD or else he'll get destroyed by 28%. His wakeup is terrible, we can antiair him pretty effectively. He doesn't have any real ways to open us up (you can fuzzy F1 mixups). A blocked Trident rush basically gives us a free mixup, usually mixing it up between Czar toss and MB Hook charge. In the midrange lobo can outfootsie aqua with stand3 and low hook/hook charge.
I usually judge matchups based on Close range, mid range, and long range. He can't zone us effectively, he can't outdamage/outmix us up, Lobo dominates him in the mid range. I don't see what he has other than LOL18%CHIP?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Me and @GGA Fill Pops worked out a Match up chart based on our experiences.

Aquaman 6-4
Ares 6-4
Bane 5-5
Batgirl 5-5
Batman 5-5
Black Adam 5-5
Catwoman 5-5
Cyborg 5-5
Doomsday 4-6
Deathstroke 5-5
Flash 5-5
Green Arrow 6-4
Green Lantern 5-5
Grundy 5-5
Harley Quinn 6-4
Hawkgirl 5-5
Joker 6-4
Killer Frost 5-5
Lex Luthor 4-6
MMH 5-5
Nightwing 6-4
Raven 6-4
Scorpion 6-4
Shazam 5-5
Sinestro 5-5
Superman 5-5
Wonder Woman 5-5
Zatanna 4-6
Zod 4-6

Winning = 8
Even = 17
Losing = 4

Thoughts?

I think this could be a bit over optimistic. Here are the ones I think are different:
Batman 4-6
GL 4-6
Grundy 4-6 or worse. What do you even do to make this matchup work?
Hawkgirl 6-4
MMH 4-6
NW 4-6
Raven 5-5
Superman 4-6

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Batman's wakeup sucks and we do a lot of damage, we can trade with batarangs with trait shots. He has crazy pressure but can't really open you up. I don't see what advantage Batman really has.

GL is dependant on whoever has the lifelead, his wakeup is bad, we can trade with his projectiles and we get a free trait load from a whiffed oas rocket/air rocket/rocket power/minigun. I do fine in this matchup I just gotta be patient.

I'm not too sure about grundy but we do as much damage as him and we have some unthrowable moves. I don't know this MU that much tbh.
Same with hawkgirl, our forward dash helps go under her air projectile and we can get a j1 into combo, pumpshots/hook charge will stuff her wakeup charges. but aside from that im not too sure about this MU

We can go even with Martian, we can trade with his projectiles, standing 3 helps fight against his trait shenanigans, we can blow up his wakeup pretty easily, you can fuzzy his B1/B2 mixups. You can punish Standing 3 into normal orbs with hook charge. You can dash under OH teleport for a full B3 punish. Sadly I wasn't able to get any games with Jupiter because he had to leave pretty early.

We heavily out mixup and out damage nightwing, in staff stance you stay out of his D1 range and in your Standing 3 range. We can trade/ zone him if we have the lifelead. We can punish a non MB wingdings. I've fought multiple nightwings and I've never really had too much trouble with them.

We can blow up ravens wakeups, we can punish soul crush with trait,which means she's stuck using her normal high projectile. In trait our forward dash is 2 gdlk that we can block a crush after a blocked pillar.

We go even with Supermeng, his zoning is annoying but we out damage him and out mix him up. He's just got really good footsies. I've never really had a problem with this matchup so iunno.

 

[M2Dave]

We can go even with Martian, we can trade with his projectiles, standing 3 helps fight against his trait shenanigans, we can blow up his wakeup pretty easily, you can fuzzy his B1/B2 mixups. You can punish Standing 3 into normal orbs with hook charge. You can dash under OH teleport for a full B3 punish. Sadly I wasn't able to get any games with Jupiter because he had to leave pretty early.

b+1 / b+2 is definitely can definitely not be fuzzy guarded.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

b+1 / b+2 is definitely can definitely not be fuzzy guarded.

It's definitely possible to block low and then block b2 on reaction when you see it.

The only issue is he does have instant j1 xx tele to counter that.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

My chart going through another change.

Aquaman: 5-5
Ares: 5-5 possible 6-4
Bane: 5-5
Batgirl: 5-5
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Doomsday: 4-6
Deathstroke: 6-4
Flash: 5-5
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 4-6
Grundy: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Hawkgirl: 5-5
Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 5-5
Lex Luthor: 4-6
MMH: 5-5
Nightwing: 4-6
Raven: 5-5
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 5-5
Superman: 4-6
Wonder Woman: 5-5
Zatanna: 4-6
Zod: 4-6 (I need work on this)

Opinions guys?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I think this could be a bit over optimistic. Here are the ones I think are different:
Batman 4-6
GL 4-6
Grundy 4-6 or worse. What do you even do to make this matchup work?
Hawkgirl 6-4
MMH 4-6
NW 4-6
Raven 5-5
Superman 4-6

Personally I have no idea how batman wakes up vs lobo ever