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Match-up Discussion Lobo Matchup Discussion 2014

Lord Hollow

The Sage Of Michigan.
B+1,2 is throw immune also? At what point in the animation? Believe me, I realize instant j2 isn't a great option, but I've rarely got punished for it because the jump is floaty, but far. He would have to d+2 right as I jump, and that's after he cancels the WC. My whole thing is to not get grabbed and I did that in a panic once and it started working out pretty well after that. I will add b+1,2 to my anti Grundy arsenal, also.
 
B+1,2 is throw immune also? At what point in the animation? Believe me, I realize instant j2 isn't a great option, but I've rarely got punished for it because the jump is floaty, but far. He would have to d+2 right as I jump, and that's after he cancels the WC. My whole thing is to not get grabbed and I did that in a panic once and it started working out pretty well after that. I will add b+1,2 to my anti Grundy arsenal, also.

It's during the windup for the uppercut. Honestly, I just really hate the idea of jumping in on Grundy at any point in time, it's way too risky. If it works for you, then I guess keep doing it, but I'd probably never do it out of sheer fear of getting D2'd and eating a guaranteed reset that makes Lobo's damage on par with day 1 Zatanna.
 

Lord Hollow

The Sage Of Michigan.
It's during the windup for the uppercut. Honestly, I just really hate the idea of jumping in on Grundy at any point in time, it's way too risky. If it works for you, then I guess keep doing it, but I'd probably never do it out of sheer fear of getting D2'd and eating a guaranteed reset that makes Lobo's damage on par with day 1 Zatanna.
Well, its not so much a jump in. I share in that idea with you. If I see him WC, I jump forward while hitting 2. I jump behind him, sometimes kicking him in the forehead as I sail over him. Its not infallible, but I'm so paranoid about getting grabbed, I just do it.
 
I feel like sharing my opinions on MUs. I've played, and theory fight often. I know I'm a nobody to some, but I want to put my views. Ask for explanations if needed.

Aquaman: 5-5
Ares: 5-5
Bane: 5-5
Batgirl: 5-5
Batman: 5-5 (maybe 6-4)
Black Adam: 5-5
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5 (maybe 4-6)
Doomsday: 4-6
Deathstroke: 6-4
Flash: 5-5 (Maybe 6-4)
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 4-6
Grundy: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Hawkgirl: 5-5
Joker: 5-5 (idk, gotta play this more)
Killer Frost: 5-5
Lex Luthor: 4-6
MMH: 5-5
Nightwing: 4-6
Raven: 5-5
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 5-5 (3-7 when he has trait out)
Superman: 4-6
Wonder Woman: 5-5
Zatanna: 4-6
Zod: 4-6

Opinions guys?
 
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Captain Oxygen

The end of one combo is the beginning of another
I do think Zod is a really bad matchup, but I don't think its 7-3, Imo I think its just 6-4.
Zod's keepaway for his trait is really hard to deal with, but his wakeup is bad enough imo, you can kill him with 2 guesses easily.
I dunno, I played this match a lot at WB and I think it's 6-4, Nothing Zod has really makes it 7-3 worthy.

For the most part I really like your matchup chart. I still think Lobo is top 10 because he lacks disadvantage(or advantage) matchups, if we did what most communities did and compiled a detailed matchup chart with the winning MU numbers in order, Lobo would probably be pretty high due to his 5-5's across the board.
 
I do think Zod is a really bad matchup, but I don't think its 7-3, Imo I think its just 6-4.
Zod's keepaway for his trait is really hard to deal with, but his wakeup is bad enough imo, you can kill him with 2 guesses easily.
I dunno, I played this match a lot at WB and I think it's 6-4, Nothing Zod has really makes it 7-3 worthy.

For the most part I really like your matchup chart. I still think Lobo is top 10 because he lacks disadvantage(or advantage) matchups, if we did what most communities did and compiled a detailed matchup chart with the winning MU numbers in order, Lobo would probably be pretty high due to his 5-5's across the board.
Must be me struggling hard through the MU. The trait and Keepaway overwhelms me. How do you fight the MU?
 

Captain Oxygen

The end of one combo is the beginning of another
Must be me struggling hard through the MU. The trait and Keepaway overwhelms me. How do you fight the MU?
Things get a lot easier once you get to that mid range that lobo excels at, When he has trait you just sort of have to deal with it. If he tries to jump and zod dash away from you, you have to be ready to punish with hook charge. Once you get a knockdown things get easier but yeah it's just a bad matchup. Make sure you have trait ready to punish him if he tries to summon the trait demon in neutral.

Being patient sucks :U
 

FGC-Oni

Ascended One
Zatanna is a legit 3-7 play Mr. Mileena and tell me it isn't. It's impossible to knock her down let alone get a combo off, you guys must not be playing good Zatanna players.
 
Zatanna is a legit 3-7 play Mr. Mileena and tell me it isn't. It's impossible to knock her down let alone get a combo off, you guys must not be playing good Zatanna players.
I'm basing this on an offline environment where you can react to stuff. Lobo can plow through set ups with MB hook charge, has ranged attacks to hit her, and has many ways to counter Zatanna.

I feel that she's a great character online, but when you figure out the gimmicks, you can blow them up. This can also be a potential 5-5.
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
I'm basing this on an offline environment where you can react to stuff. Lobo can plow through set ups with MB hook charge, has ranged attacks to hit her, and has many ways to counter Zatanna.

I feel that she's a great character online, but when you figure out the gimmicks, you can blow them up. This can also be a potential 5-5.
I see what @FGC-Oni is saying, but I think the Zatanna mu along with Ares mu; is just really annoying.
 
The only reason I say 4-6 is that she can teleport away. Let's not forget we can reload our trait if she chooses to teleport away. And you can neutral jump punish or wait out the other two I believe. It's annoying, but not a shitty match up that's hard af to win.
 
It's annoying, but not a shitty match up that's hard af to win.
pretty much how i feel about the matchup overall. She's super gimmicky and annoying but not as bad as GL or Zod. I'd rather fight a Zatanna over a GL that knows the matchup.

Also, since it's been released now, I'm going to guess that Sinestro is a hard 4-6 or 3-7 now due to the pushblock tech. You attempt going for the 33/33/33 when Sinestro has a bar and trait, and you get punished and sent back to full screen. I still haven't messed with it that much, but on paper, this sounds REAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLY bad for Lobo now.
 
pretty much how i feel about the matchup overall. She's super gimmicky and annoying but not as bad as GL or Zod. I'd rather fight a Zatanna over a GL that knows the matchup.

Also, since it's been released now, I'm going to guess that Sinestro is a hard 4-6 or 3-7 now due to the pushblock tech. You attempt going for the 33/33/33 when Sinestro has a bar and trait, and you get punished and sent back to full screen. I still haven't messed with it that much, but on paper, this sounds REAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLY bad for Lobo now.
We should try this out tomorrow then. Basically, if I pushblock with trait, you're fucked, vortexed, or losing a shit load of health. Let's see how WoundCowboy uses this tonight. And a little off topic, what time is the injustice stream?
 
We should try this out tomorrow then. Basically, if I pushblock with trait, you're fucked, vortexed, or losing a shit load of health. Let's see how WoundCowboy uses this tonight. And a little off topic, what time is the injustice stream?

ugh... I'm really not looking forward to this set now lol.

an injustice starts at 2pm pst, so 5 pm est for non-california peoples.
 
ugh... I'm really not looking forward to this set now lol.

an injustice starts at 2pm pst, so 5 pm est for non-california peoples.
You should run Sinestro too when we alternate characters. I wanna see how broken this shit can get, and to see if lobo can do anything.

On paper, this MU now seems like "Don't fuck up your mix ups, you'll die". I doubt there's a way to oki him now either.
 
Here is a post I've had in a private convo in with a flash main after playing him.. His perspective on the Lobo vs Flash MU.

I am even more convinced now that it is in Lobo's favor: 6-4; but I think I know enough to give a break down.

So at the start of the match, a back dash will avoid every logical opener from Flash. Lobo's ranged tools are absurd and in a match up where I have no safe ranged tool(I'm counting LC as a ranged tool), and I need to get in your face, Lobo's ranged 50/50 is good. I can punish all of your ranged options on read with LC, but only on read, and not on reaction; but the danger there is if I LC in, regular or meter burned, and I was wrong on the read, I eat 43% if you have any bar. Flash can't do B22F3 SP set ups mid screen or in the corner because the F3 whiffs; you were doing a really good job at ducking it but you can also actually punish it too when that happens due to the recovery frames, so long as you're quick about it(not sure what the best possible punish is for Lobo so you'll want to lab it). You started back dashing my B22 frame trap toward the end, but as far as evasion purposes go, back/neutral jumping are better options. Neutral jumping can be a full combo punish if I D12(to be honest, I'm not 100% sure if it is a true punish or just due to lag, because sometimes I can recover in time to block but regardless you can start reversal pressure) and even if I go overhead which will catch the jump, I can't really convert to any damage unless if I was planning on delaying my LK ahead of time which will still only give me 15%. I can preemptive Ji1 though if I read the jump and can convert to full combo damage without using meter so jumping isn't the best option to use as a norm of dealing with the frame trap, but it is really strong to mix in because if I jump and you don't, you can AA me on the way down for free, so for me to jump is to take a risk. For my D12 footsies, Lobo can counter by using standing 3(I think that's the right button, whatever button it is that whips his chain ahead of him) and Flash should just have to hold that unless if he wants to take a big risk and preemptive Flying Uppercut. And I'm not too sure as to what the best punish is for my wake up LK whiff either, you're gonna have to lab it. Also so you know, LK has throw immunity but can be stuffed, and you try to do you command grab a lot on my wake up, which is why I kept waking up with LK so often; but honestly pressuring Flash on wake up isn't a smart idea. Neutral jump set ups are the way to go as we have to vertical options to punish and the best we can do really is to LC out which will still put us a full screen away, which is good positioning for Lobo.

So long as you play the MU patiently, not becoming overtly predictable pressing buttons when I'm in LC range, and safely load up your nuke shells, Lobo definitely seems to give Flash more problems than the other way around and there doesn't seem to be any overtly obvious character specific tech for Flash against Lobo. You were doing good today checking me after blocked LKs, but you have to remember that blocking a Sonic Pound only leaves me at -1 and the only thing that can check me is a D1. You were doing extremely well toward the end of the set, especially on reading/reacting to my dash ins, and if you get all the punishes down and start mixing in jumps to avoid my frame traps(works on both B22 and MB LC as they both leave me +3) I can see you giving me a really hard time in the future.
 
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Due to the games with @Blind_Man and @Cage Redfield, I changed around the Sinestro and Zod MU number.

I still feel that trait less Sinestro is a 5-5, but when he gets trait out, GGs. Lobo has to be careful on a lot of things he does, and will get easily blown up if he rushes in. Oh, and it's super hard to get in when Sinestro gets his trait out.

With Zod, I retreat my earlier statement of 3-7 because I couldn't really find something that Zod can abuse and destroy lobo with. With the correct reads, you can win this match up. And be ready for oki mix ups.
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
I had a set with a friend of mine who played Sinestro and we both agreed its 5-5. But once he gets trait out it turns into a hard 4-6 imo. He isn't a Sinestro main but he knows the general gameplan for him. So i got some exp in the mu. I probably should play p2w too REALLY get some knowledge in that mu tho!
 

Captain Oxygen

The end of one combo is the beginning of another
Some more things about the Zod - Lobo matchup that I think help even it out,
All of Zod's wakeups are stuffable with B1, which means he has to respect the followups.

Zod's keepaway is really good, but if you can practice dashing under Zod Balls and get it in its pretty much done for Zod, Up close Zod doesn't have any real 50/50's if you know all his strings. When he has trait, you can just fuzzy his low strings into the overhead grab and full combo punish. If he tries to do low laser in mixups, for most of his strings you can jump over and get a free B3 punish on his back (Which is pretty funny to see).

Every Zod I fight has a different style of keepaway, but its generally the same strategy. Get in and bop their wakeup with 50% combos.

I still think it's in Zod's favor, but it could be 5-5 in the future.
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Some more things about the Zod - Lobo matchup that I think help even it out,
All of Zod's wakeups are stuffable with B1, which means he has to respect the followups.

Zod's keepaway is really good, but if you can practice dashing under Zod Balls and get it in its pretty much done for Zod, Up close Zod doesn't have any real 50/50's if you know all his strings. When he has trait, you can just fuzzy his low strings into the overhead grab and full combo punish. If he tries to do low laser in mixups, for most of his strings you can jump over and get a free B3 punish on his back (Which is pretty funny to see).

Every Zod I fight has a different style of keepaway, but its generally the same strategy. Get in and bop their wakeup with 50% combos.

I still think it's in Zod's favor, but it could be 5-5 in the future.
well i play both Zod and Lobo so its prolly find the match easier to deal but i find it best when he has trait to yolo MB Hook Charge once you get a knockdown happy days

i go more elebarate on what to later, just quickly posted this
 
well i play both Zod and Lobo so its prolly find the match easier to deal but i find it best when he has trait to yolo MB Hook Charge once you get a knockdown happy days

i go more elebarate on what to later, just quickly posted this
It's not a great idea to waste all your meter on hook charge. And you're not always on full meter.

Trait mix ups can be overwhelming. It's best to keep Zod on his back, and make him respect your B1. But getting Zod on his back is the hard part.