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Liu Kang Matchup Discussion Thread

I agree with your output on the match and can now see what they can do right when it comes to this match up, especially with jump ins. I always realized I stayed on the ground when it came to this match up but could not pin point the reason. .XD I also never really was too precise with my explanation of parry and I know it cannot parry roll but teleport.

I strongly disagree with this match up being 4-6 as someone here has mentioned earlier.
Maybe we can compromise and say it's 5-5.
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
We can go with that.

Even they agree it's 5-5 so yeah.

As for the other match ups, is there any other match up beside the Mileena match up anyone here would share info about regarding advantages and disadvantages.
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
Wow...just wow...Noob is a motherfucker. -_-

This match up remains 7-3 in Noob's favor despite his unecessary buffs, but this match up is impossible at the moment and is going to take some getting used to. Overheads? You gotta be kidding me! >.<
 

Zyns

Grodd for Injustice 3
Wow...just wow...Noob is a motherfucker. -_-

This match up remains 7-3 in Noob's favor despite his unecessary buffs, but this match up is impossible at the moment and is going to take some getting used to. Overheads? You gotta be kidding me! >.<
I know right?? Grr!!
I need to almost completely re-learn this matchup now!
 
Wow...just wow...Noob is a motherfucker. -_-

This match up remains 7-3 in Noob's favor despite his unecessary buffs, but this match up is impossible at the moment and is going to take some getting used to. Overheads? You gotta be kidding me! >.<
I don't have the patch yet (thanks NRS), but yeah it seems like it will become 8-2 again lol. The overhead is going to be extremely annoying, but I'm more worried about his 6 frame D1 beating out Kang's D3, and just generally fucking things up if you ever get close to him.

I'm thinking about just playing a different character against noob.
 

Zyns

Grodd for Injustice 3
I've only played one Noob since the patch, unfortunately he was very, very good, and I got absolutely demolished.
I don't think it's going to be higher than 7-3 though, we just need to adjust to the overhead. As for the D1, I haven't looked into it.
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
I had to use Kenshi to beat the noob player I was up against knowing I had absolutely no chance with LK. It was still a pretty hard match up since i'm not that experienced with Kenshi against Noob yet. It was indeed a sad day. But i'll save the off topic/character stuff for the Kenshi board.

As to greenless's comment, I just realized why my low pokes were geting snuffed all the time by one of his attacks. I seriously thought it was supposed to be neutral advantage for us. Pressuring is high risk in my opinion and getting in on a smart noob player is almost impossible. They don't have to be good, just smart. The only strategy I can think of is to just use that meter. Pretty much anything that will get you in anyway and just cheese it out with f1,2...conserving it is pretty useless at this point. I mean, 80% of the time Noob is straight up doing his specials and sometimes will just do his basic BnBs. And if it's a high damage combo, breaking it is pretty difficult since shadow up knee cannot be broken. I also remember snuffing his teleport with nj. punch but I think that was lucky since I was trying to do an air fireball. Although, I did hear his teleport can be punished before grab but that's pretty risky to anticipate at any distance.. so you're better off just blocking it and not playing stupid or throwing out fireballs carelessly.

Sure, we will soon find an answer to Noob's projectile mixups eventually along with the match up entirely but until then, if you actually manage to beat Noob with Liu Kang at this point, then the only explanation there is that they just suck or made mistakes that they will not do next round.

2-8? I wouldn't be surprised if that's how the odds end up becoming.

Do you guys have some kind of viable strategy against Raiden? I'm just.. legitimately confused against him.
Sorry I missed this. Let me try to help as much as I can but i'm sure someone may do a better job. My 2 cents in other words.

1. Well his close combat game is no different than Quan chi's with the mix up of lows and overheads so start getting used to knowing how to block these kinds of strings and do not fall for his baits after blocking his entire list combo.

2. If he teleports, nj. punch on reaction will hit him or cause him to block. His teleport is much slower now so that whole teleport game is pretty manageable and timing is not as strict as before. But it really depends what they are trying to do after they teleport. You can parry as well.

I forgot if parrying his superman move works or not. I seriously forgot or am getting it mixed up with another move that cannot be parried. >.>
 

Zyns

Grodd for Injustice 3
Does anyone wish to discuss the Noob matchup? The new overhead is definitely going to be a huge obstacle for us to overcome. Plus his new D1 isn't making our lives any easier :(

EDIT: I see the previous out-of-place discussion was moved to this thread, awesome :)
 
Does anyone wish to discuss the Noob matchup? The new overhead is definitely going to be a huge obstacle for us to overcome. Plus his new D1 isn't making our lives any easier :(

EDIT: I see the previous out-of-place discussion was moved to this thread, awesome :)
I would love to IF I HAD THE PATCH.

But seriously, it was a bad matchup to begin with, and noob is now noob on steroids. We're the same old kang. I'm fully expecting 2-8, and I'm also expecting 3-7 for sub zero again.
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
Updating

* = Would like to discuss/being asked for insight on match and character.

5-5 vs Baraka
4-6 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
4-6 vs Freddy Krueger
5-5 vs Jade
6-4 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage * (does his various options closeup and in the air make him the better mix up/rush down character?)
4-6 vs Kabal *
5-5 vs Kano *
5-5 vs Kenshi
6-4 vs Kitana * (Does beating her wake ups with d4 make her prone to pressure?)
5-5 vs Kung Lao* (Do we all agree?)
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
3-7 vs Noob Saibot * (2-8...nuff said)
5-5 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
5-5 vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile * (I just don't know anymore...Any tourny players experienced with this match up? or anyone?)
5-5 vs Scorpion
6-4 vs Sektor * (WHY?)
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
5-5 vs Skarlet (changed...6-4 is a bit too much.)
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
6-4 vs Stryker * (Is this still in LK's favor?)
6-4 vs Sub-Zero * (I'm thinking 5-5)
 

Zyns

Grodd for Injustice 3
I haven't played much since the patch, but over the weekend I'm going to get some matches in with all of our trouble/questionable characters. See if anything has changed for me at least.
 
I just played a good kabal, and I'm thinking 4-6 against kang also. The original posting for kang matchups has that at 5-5.. maybe that was before kabal was a fully developed character, or something..

I don't, I felt like there was nothing I could do at range except pray for a flying kick hit, and when you hit them with that you dont even get that close to them. Maybe if you got a free combo off of an ex flying kick like kabal did off an ex nomad dash then it would be 5-5, lol. The moment i get the zoning advantage, i get hit by ex dash. If I'm not mistake they improve kabals armor on that dash in the patch (that I still don't have). That.. is .. blah.

Kabal is the big one I'm noticing right now, but for some others to throw out there.

5-5 Johnny cage makes sense, but I could see this being 6-4 for kang.
5-5 Kano also makes sense, but I could also see this being 6-4 for kang.
5-5 Reptile makes sense, but this could be 6-4 in reptiles favor. Not alot of experience in it, but I think reptile has many more options. He zones strong, and a flying kick will usually go over his head if hes doing forceballs.

6-4 Sektor? Nah, I think that is a 5-5.
5-5 Skarlet I think should be 6-4 in favor of kang, still. She's way too slow for her close range mixup potential to be really dangerous, and I think LK can match her in zoning.
6-4 Sub-zero, you're giving the advantage to kang? No way dude, its 4-6 the other way.

KL = 5-5
Kitana, I think is a 5-5
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
Let me add something else for the Noob match up...

I realized that if you are knocked down and you stay down and block, it kills Noobs momentum and leave him open for pressure if you throw an up knee or shadow tackle. Just a small strategy. >.>
 
Updating

* = Would like to discuss/being asked for insight on match and character.

5-5 vs Johnny Cage * (does his various options closeup and in the air make him the better mix up/rush down character?)
4-6 vs Kabal *
5-5 vs Kano *
6-4 vs Kitana * (Does beating her wake ups with d4 make her prone to pressure?)
5-5 vs Kung Lao* (Do we all agree?)
3-7 vs Noob Saibot * (2-8...nuff said)
5-5 vs Reptile * (I just don't know anymore...Any tourny players experienced with this match up? or anyone?)
6-4 vs Sektor * (WHY?)
6-4 vs Stryker * (Is this still in LK's favor?)
6-4 vs Sub-Zero * (I'm thinking 5-5)
Johnny Cage is absolutely better at rushdown than Liu Kang. He's one of those characters you have to beat with your zoning. His options to get in are not great, but Liu Kang's options to get him out after he gets in are also not great. This matchup feels very even to me, 5-5 seems right.

Kabal is at least 4-6. Might even be worse than that, not sure, but it does feel like he's got the advantage from every range. You can't really zone him because saw wins trades with your fireballs, and it's tough for Liu Kang to interrupt the nomad dash cancel loop.

Kano vs Liu Kang feels even from long range. Seems like both characters have an option for anything the other does. Low fireball beats knives, but straight ball beats low fireball, but high fireball beats straight ball, but knives beats high fireball. I don't know where instant air fireball gets into all of this, it might trade with knives but I'm not sure. Up close Liu Kang has the faster normals, kinda tough for Kano to get his rushdown started. I feel like this is 6-4.

I agree with Kitana vs Liu Kang being 6-4. Neither character really has a definitive advantage in the zoning game, and Liu Kang's rushdown is better.

We've discussed Kung Lao at length, it's very even. If he gets in he probably wins, if he doesn't he probably loses. If you instant air fireball him as he's teleporting, you can juggle him with two more instant air fireballs for a 17% combo. That's my favorite combo in the game, incidentally.

Noob Saibot sucks and has always sucked, the better d1 and armor on upknee definitely does not make it better. I'd like to play against the new Noob before I say it's 2-8, though.

I don't have a huge amount of experience against Reptile; there's a couple guys locally who play Reptile, but they aren't really tournament regulars. The last Reptile I played was Chris G at Summer Jam, who pretty much steamrolled me, but then he's Chris G. Anyways I don't feel like it's a great matchup. You may be able to rush him down if you can get in, but it's really tricky to get in especially since EX flying kick doesn't beat force ball (Reptile's hitbox lowers when he throws the force ball, so the EX flying kick just sails over his head).

Sektor seems 5-5 to me. He outzones Liu Kang, but doesn't have great tools to interrupt Liu Kang's rushdown. Pretty much limited to low poke or uppercut, and d3 should beat either of those. That said I haven't played a whole lot of Sektors so it's entirely possible I don't know what I'm talking about.

I'd really like to get a feel for the new Stryker before changing the matchup numbers there. NRS changed a whole lot of stuff. There is a Stryker player who lives one state over from me, haven't really played him in a while though; there is a tournament coming up near where he lives so who knows, maybe he'll show up for that and I can get some sets in against him.

I am not super afraid of the new Sub Zero. The armor on EX slide does mean you can't always low fireball him out of it, but what, he hits you, you hit him, he knocks you down but knocks you too far away to really get any knockdown pressure going. This is all just theory fighting obviously, but on paper it doesn't seem like it gives him a huge edge. He also took a big damage hit by having his resets removed. Still feels like a matchup that favors Liu Kang.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
6-4 vs Kitana * (Does beating her wake ups with d4 make her prone to pressure?)
Every character's d4 or sweep or whatever beats her wakeup. Kitana's wakeup is garbage unless you are doing an attack that doesn't lower your hitbox.

Once you knock her down, she is prone to everything.
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
Something tells me these match up threads wont be complete for a long time due to how new this game is and our inexperience with certain match ups. And these new patches just makes the game more and more newer. XD

Kabal is at least 4-6. Might even be worse than that, not sure, but it does feel like he's got the advantage from every range. You can't really zone him because saw wins trades with your fireballs, and it's tough for Liu Kang to interrupt the nomad dash cancel loop.
This match up can probably turn out to be 3-7. I was playing against a sick Kabal player last night, I remember getting poked out of my pressure game plenty of times. I don't know if it's the online or i'm just not applying it correctly (No, I was not spamming 213 > b312, I tried mixing up between low pokes and mid attacks/overheads). I was even poked out of f1,2 so it may be the online. But that dash reminds me a lot like Kung Laos spin, so little start up. But just like spin, his dash is very vulnerable. It can be stopped by fireballs, parry, and dragon kick but then we go back to the issues with the zoning game that we pretty much lose, leaving us with the only option of EN Dragon kick to get in and risking a jump in since the dash nomad is just retarded.

Although, doesn't Kabal's dash have a limit? Or you can keep dash cancelling as long as you want? Because i'm sure there is a way to poke him out with d3.

Kano vs Liu Kang feels even from long range. Seems like both characters have an option for anything the other does. Low fireball beats knives, but straight ball beats low fireball, but high fireball beats straight ball, but knives beats high fireball. I don't know where instant air fireball gets into all of this, it might trade with knives but I'm not sure. Up close Liu Kang has the faster normals, kinda tough for Kano to get his rushdown started. I feel like this is 6-4.
I'm aware that you don't have the patch yet because Kano is a pretty tough one now. His knife toss has less recovery now, so believe it or not, he is dangerous at long distance now. The only way is to get in and upclose, Kano is not so bad. I wouldn't under estimate him from close range.

As for the rest, i'll let the patch speak to you but until then these are my thoughts.

I am not super afraid of the new Sub Zero. The armor on EX slide does mean you can't always low fireball him out of it, but what, he hits you, you hit him, he knocks you down but knocks you too far away to really get any knockdown pressure going. This is all just theory fighting obviously, but on paper it doesn't seem like it gives him a huge edge. He also took a big damage hit by having his resets removed. Still feels like a matchup that favors Liu Kang.
Now that I think of it, I think sub zero's only option getting in is EN slide. All it takes is good fireball pressure in the air and on the ground and you pretty much have sub zero locked down...I just question the ways sub zero can get Liu Kang in the corner because once you're put in the corner by a good subz, you're done.

If you are playing sub zero upclose, you're doing it wrong.
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
Also, has anyone noticed Mileena's d4 has been changed? I remember someone tried to do that d4 trap in the corner with Mileena and it just pushed her away when blocking.

>mfw

 
Actually I agree with you guys that sub is probably even or slightly in kangs favor after thinking about it. I guess I haven't played too many sub zeros. I dont think Kabal will be as bad as 3-7 though. He's bad, yeah, but hes not as bad as noob. As for interrupting dash cancels I usually try to sneak in a down 3. It's all a guessing game though.
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
Being frozen even once or kept in one place is huge for sub zero since you'll probably be eating 30% or even more depending where you are and how much meter the sub zero player is willing to spend hence why the strategy for this match up is perfect to conserve for breakers since fireballs build meter. I'm sure in a match vs a good sub zero, you'll get frozen more than just once. Only way to keep him out is fireball or up close, you can use f4,3 or f121 to quickly keep him away. But just hope they did not block it.
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
I'm going to bring my 360 to school one of these days and get several games in with this Noob player at my school and see how I do offline against Noob with this new patch.
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
A few things useless I realized when playing against Noob offline (not the one I mentioned earlier).

1. Dragon kick goes over slide.

2. Do not block the clone if you see it coming, jump over it and jump in with j.p. Anticipate it in order to not eat a rising clone knee.

3. f1,2 is your friend!!!

I still need to get those offline matches though. >.>
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I would say that LK has to work hard to beat Ermac.I certainly dont agree with the 4-6 vs Ermac.One throw of Ermac and LK has to work again his way inside.Once he is back in again he still needs to be careful of throws F4's 31's which can still turn the tables in favor of Ermac.So i would say its something like 3-7 in Ermac's favor.Ofc i might be wrong.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Hey guys trust me on this

Liu kang 6-4 against cyber sub

Parry no longer works on his low, can out zone w iaf, wakeup parry now is awesome and his damage is 40%+ no meter as well as CSz has no chance getting out of a corner against him

Also 6-4 against NW, b3 1 2 stop shoulder in all frames LOL

U can bait hatchet w jip cancel air fire, drop punish. Liu's parry stops all corner pressure from NW unlike csz's.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I would say that LK has to work hard to beat Ermac.I certainly dont agree with the 4-6 vs Ermac.One throw of Ermac and LK has to work again his way inside.Once he is back in again he still needs to be careful of throws F4's 31's which can still turn the tables in favor of Ermac.So i would say its something like 3-7 in Ermac's favor.Ofc i might be wrong.
Can u talk w me how to effectively use b2 charge cancel properly against liu Kang and by liu kang I mean Atl_redd lol