Liu Kang Matchup Discussion Thread

[Konqrr]

I realize that there might be a matchup thread already in this forum, but the point of this thread is to discuss matchups to make the Matchup Chart as accurate as possible.

The Matchup Chart thread:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?3075-Mortal-Kombat-(2011)-Matchup-Chart

When you discuss or list what you think the matchups are, please do so in alphabetical order. Also, they should be listed in either whole numbers or .5 notations.

The current Matchup Chart for Liu Kang is as follows(last updated 23/02/2013):
5-5 vs Baraka
6-4 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
6-4 vs Cyrax
6-4 vs Ermac
3-7 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
6-4 vs Kano
3-7 vs Kenshi
5-5 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Mileena
6-4 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
7-3 vs Quan Chi
6-4 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
6-4 vs Reptile
6-4 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
7-3 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
4-6 vs Smoke(perhaps 5-5)
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
6-4 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

Bad MU's:
- Freddy Krueger
- Kabal(slightly)
- Kenshi
- Kung Lao(slightly)

Agree? Disagree? DISCUSS!

 

[MK Peanuts]

Thanks for making all these threads, Konqrr.

The majority of these I agree with. I think the matchups for Cyrax, Jade, Jax, Johnny Cage, Kabal, Kano, Kitana, Kung Lao, Nightwolf, Noob Saibot, Quan Chi, Raiden, Sheeva, Sindel and Stryker are all correct. For Cyber Sub Zero, Mileena, and Sektor, I really can't say because I don't have much experience with those matchups (especially Cyber Sub Zero).

For some of the others...

Baraka
Up close I think both characters are about even, they both have good pressure and mixups. From long range though I think Liu Kang has a huge advantage. Low fireball beats blade spark clean (it lowers Liu Kang's hitbox so much that the spark passes harmlessly over his head), forcing Baraka to get in to win, and Baraka's tools to advance aren't great. I'd say this matchup is 6-4 in Liu Kang's favor.

Ermac
Ermac has a good zoning game to keep Liu Kang out but no real good "get off me" tool once Liu Kang is in; he doesn't have quick specials or armored specials to interrupt the frame traps. I'd say this is more of a 5-5 matchup.

Reptile
I don't know why this matchup would be in Liu Kang's favor. He can punish the elbow dash with a full combo, but so can all sorts of stuff. Also Reptile's zoning is really problematic for Liu Kang; Reptile's hitbox lowers when he throws a force ball, causing an EX flying kick to sail right over his head. EX bicycle kicks work but you need to be at half screen for that to hit, making full screen force balls totally safe. I think this is 4-6 in favor of Reptile.

Scorpion
Again I feel like Liu Kang has the edge here because of his zoning. Spear and even EX spear don't beat low fireball. Instant air fireball recovers fast enough for Liu Kang to block a teleport that was done on reaction, so that's a pretty risky way to get around the zoning, unless it's an EX teleport. Probably more like 6-4 in favor of Liu Kang.

Shang Tsung
Definitely a bad matchup, but 3-7 suggests it's as bad as Noob Saibot, which I really don't think is the case. Unenhanced flying kicks can beat ground skulls on prediction and up skulls on reaction. This doesn't invalidate Shang's zoning or anything, but it gives him options he doesn't have against Noob, which is why I feel the matchup isn't as bad. Shang's better up close than Noob is, but Liu Kang is better up close than either of them. I believe this is 4-6 in favor of Shang.

Smoke
Flying kick beats smoke bombs on reaction, making it tough for Smoke to play runaway. He can bait the flying kick but that's true for any situation where flying kick is useful. Up close they're about even and flying kick + shake make it so neither character can zone safely. I'd say this is 5-5.

Sonya Blade
Low fireball goes under rings, and instant air fireball recovers fast enough to block a ring. Ring recovers fast enough that she can throw a ring and block the low fireball, but it's not like Sonya's gonna win letting Liu Kang build meter for free like that. She's got some tools to get in, but arc kick is a risky option if the Liu Kang player is spamming air fireballs, and instant air fireball recovers fast enough to block a full screen EX arc kick. Sonya has the advantage in melee range but I think Liu Kang's zoning game is so much better that the matchup is still 6-4 in his favor.

 

[JacopeX]

Liu Kang Vs. Kenshi is 5-5. Liu Kang has to get close in order to get anything on Kenshi. Zoning is not an option. And if Liu Kang were to get close and begin his attack, kenshi has very little tools to keep Liu Kang off.

 

[MK Peanuts]

Liu Kang Vs. Kenshi is 5-5. Liu Kang has to get close in order to get anything on Kenshi. Zoning is not an option. And if Liu Kang were to get close and begin his attack, kenshi has very little tools to keep Liu Kang off.

EX rising karma and EX spirit charge both have armor. I'd assume he can use those to get Liu Kang off him.

EDIT: Based on a discussion with Cyrax players in their matchup thread, I think the Liu Kang/Cyrax matchup should be 5-5. I had been under the assumption that EX ragdoll on wakeup was a safe option, but apparently b312 can hit them out of it. It seems pretty inconsistent as to which attack wins in that scenario, but the risk/reward is obviously in Liu Kang's favor, making it very difficult for the Cyrax player to recover after they get knocked down once.

 

[JacopeX]

You're forgetting Liu Kang's pressure game and how it is arguably one of the best in the game. At close range, he has an edge over Kenshi. Sure, he may have to waste meter getting Liu Kang off but a spirit charge and tele fury are the only things he has to keep Liu Kang from the disadvantage of having to face Liu Kang in close combat. Liu Kang can keep Kenshi from making any move. At medium range, it's still in favor of Kenshi. Zoning? Not happening. Liu Kang may even have to waste meter getting in Kenshi's face. Depends how he is played to do so.

I disagree with the Cyber Sub zero match up. I see it pretty even as well. 5-5 or maybe even 5.5/4.5. All Liu Kang needs to do is keep him off by parrying the dive kick and doing low fireballs to keep subz from sliding so zoning is no problem as a dive kick would give Liu Kang enough time to recover and do a parry. At close range, a crucial mistake is being caught in the ice parry. What makes this easier than the sub zero match up is the fact that cyber sub zero does not have an ice clone to keep Liu Kang away without meter.

Anyone care to elaborate further. I may be wrong.

 

[MK Peanuts]

You're forgetting Liu Kang's pressure game and how it is arguably one of the best in the game. At close range, he has an edge over Kenshi. Sure, he may have to waste meter getting Liu Kang off but a spirit charge and tele fury are the only things he has to keep Liu Kang from the disadvantage of having to face Liu Kang in close combat. Liu Kang can keep Kenshi from making any move. At medium range, it's still in favor of Kenshi. Zoning? Not happening. Liu Kang may even have to waste meter getting in Kenshi's face. Depends how he is played to do so.

I haven't played the matchup much so I can only theorize, but EX rising karma forces me to block every now and again between my block strings to try and bait it out. I have to respect that option; otherwise you could hit me for 20% and push me all the way to the other side of the screen. I can't just mash buttons with relative safety against a blocking Kenshi the way I can against a Smoke or a Quan Chi.

 

[JacopeX]

It does have a lot to do with style of play so you may be right. I personally do not like to use meter against Liu Kang when playing as Kenshi in order to save it for an opportunity to break his combos since his specials without EX are just not enough.

 

[XBlades]

instant air fireballs give kenshi a problem... not only that when zones he wants to be in the health lead... and when reading his ex moves w/ armor... you can actually over ride it with your own armor bicycle kick. also never jump in on kenshi unless your going to stop ur jump with fireball to bait that rising slash...just mid range to close range is where liu is dominant... fire balls in mid range... hard to read the fireballs and close range for mix up tactics...

 

[ecksyz]

Curious as to what people's thoughts on the Sindel match-up are. I don't really play any all that often, none that are good anyway - so I just went into a ranked match against one who really only used two moves; fireball/air fireball and cartwheel/ex cartwheel. All it took for her to win was to use jump back air fireball, and whenever I managed to get in with an ex flying kick, cartwheel on wakeup.

Again, I really don't plany many Sindels, ever. I think she's probably the character I have the least matchup experience with. So I was confused as to how to get in without wasting meter and how to punish her cartwheel. As far as I could tell, trying to punish with b312 couldn't connect afterward. She would just cartwheel on wakeup, jump back as I tried to punish with b312 and whiffed, and then go back to controlling space with air fireballs.

The match is apparently in Liu Kang's favor so I'm sure there's something simple I'm missing. Anyone who can help?

 

[MK Peanuts]

Curious as to what people's thoughts on the Sindel match-up are. I don't really play any all that often, none that are good anyway - so I just went into a ranked match against one who really only used two moves; fireball/air fireball and cartwheel/ex cartwheel. All it took for her to win was to use jump back air fireball, and whenever I managed to get in with an ex flying kick, cartwheel on wakeup.

Again, I really don't plany many Sindels, ever. I think she's probably the character I have the least matchup experience with. So I was confused as to how to get in without wasting meter and how to punish her cartwheel. As far as I could tell, trying to punish with b312 couldn't connect afterward. She would just cartwheel on wakeup, jump back as I tried to punish with b312 and whiffed, and then go back to controlling space with air fireballs.

The match is apparently in Liu Kang's favor so I'm sure there's something simple I'm missing. Anyone who can help?

Sindel doesn't have good options to interrupt frame traps. No special fast enough, no armored specials. Maybe uppercut, I'm not sure.

Unenhanced cartwheel on wake up shouldn't be able to beat b312... I'll try to test this out when I get a chance, although it's tough to test unenhanced wake up moves because the stupid training mode doesn't work. Maybe I can get someone to help me test it. Anyways it's definitely safe on block, so it's not like you can block it and then punish if that's what you're saying.

EDIT: Apparently Sindel's uppercut is 12 frames, so she can't interrupt b312 strings with that either. So yeah, she can only escape with the options universal to every character: jumps and low pokes.

 

[Robotic]

Thanks McPeanuts for some insight on the Liu Kang vs Sektor matchup. Does anyone else in here think this matchup is 5-5? I can't find a justification to have this matchup in Kangs favor. Check the Sektor discussion thread for details on this matchup.

 

[Robotic]

Are there really that few Liu Kang players out there?

 

[MK Peanuts]

Are there really that few Liu Kang players out there?

Pretty much. I mean there's me, XBlades, Solo, Crashland... I'm probably forgetting someone. But yeah not a whole lot of regular posters in this subforum.

 

[Zyns]

Thanks McPeanuts for some insight on the Liu Kang vs Sektor matchup. Does anyone else in here think this matchup is 5-5? I can't find a justification to have this matchup in Kangs favor. Check the Sektor discussion thread for details on this matchup.

I have little experience against Sektor, but when I play good ones I find it to be a very hard matchup. I have a very hard time getting in close, and Liu's bad wake up game allow him to set up those missile trap things (like I said, little experience) I'll have to play more Sektors to have an informed opinion. But right now, I feel it's either even or in Sektors favor.

 

[JacopeX]

Are there really that few Liu Kang players out there?

What else is there left to answer?

 

[RampaginDragon]

Are there really that few Liu Kang players out there?

I don't mind it. I hate fighting Liu Kang. I usually have a better chance at beating Kung Lao. Im no noob but I just can't find a good counter to him or figure how to counter him in the first place.

 

[Zyns]

I feel we have the advantage over Kabal.
Our low fireball tech crouches under Gas Blast and IAGB. Plus I feel we dominate Kabal up close.
Maybe I haven't been playing good Kabal's, But I have yet to face a Kabal that has given me a lot of trouble.

 

[MK Peanuts]

I feel we have the advantage over Kabal.
Our low fireball tech crouches under Gas Blast and IAGB. Plus I feel we dominate Kabal up close.
Maybe I haven't been playing good Kabal's, But I have yet to face a Kabal that has given me a lot of trouble.

Low fireball doesn't crouch under ground saw, which is a bigger problem than gas blast. The knockdown on ground saw means Kabal can win projectile trades from long range. You also have to be careful about rushing down Kabal when he has meter because of EX nomad dash.

 

[JacopeX]

Kabal has so many options against Liu KAng and his rush down is just amazing and probably better than Liu Kangs. You'll have to waste meter to even get in a zoning Kabal player but getting you away is not so hard.

6-4 Kabal imo. But I could be wrong if anyone has a good response to Kabal with Kang.

 

[Zyns]

I need to find better Kabals then. Because I'm outzoning the heck out of them when I guess I shouldn't be.

 

[CrashLand]

Well, flying kick beats ground saw, so if you predict it, you get to move in without using meter.

I'm surprised Sub-Zero is considered 4-6. I have a weirdly good track record against Subs, even ones that honestly seem above my skill level. The advantage shifts a lot based on meter, position, etc but if Liu has either a bar of meter or a life lead he's in pretty good shape.

 

[Zyns]

Well, flying kick beats ground saw, so if you predict it, you get to move in without using meter.

I'm surprised Sub-Zero is considered 4-6. I have a weirdly good track record against Subs, even ones that honestly seem above my skill level. The advantage shifts a lot based on meter, position, etc but if Liu has either a bar of meter or a life lead he's in pretty good shape.

I usually have great success zoning out Sub Zeros. You just have to be sure to initiate the zoning battle. Because if you don't, BAM! Frozen.
Also Armour comes in handy here.

 

[spin4u]

On talk about discussion on Sektor vs Kang. I believe its 6-4 LK. Sektor doesn't have the close up game or the air game. I play against a good Sektor that knows all the pros/cons and it goes in my favor. I could elaborate more if you like.

So how does it fair against Sub honestly. his clones cant be armored through.

 

[CrashLand]

So how does it fair against Sub honestly. his clones cant be armored through.

His clones can be armored though, which is partly why I don't see Liu as having much if any disadvantage.

 

[MK Peanuts]

I've played more Mileenas recently and I think I've got a better feel for the Mileena matchup. It doesn't seem good. She can teleport on prediction of an instant air fireball, which actually gets her a full combo. Throwing out the occasional instant air fireball is probably fine, but chaining them back to back or using them in predictable situations is incredibly dangerous. Roll is also fast enough to interrupt blocked b312 strings. What's worse is that roll will also beat your other options; if you try to cross over jump it will anti air you, and if you try to neutral crouch because you're expecting an uppercut the roll will hit you. You really have to respect it and try to bait it out with blocks, which opens up other options for Mileena to escape your pressure. I think at best this matchup is 6-4 in favor of Mileena.