Liu Kang Matchup Discussion Thread

[JacopeX]

Every time I play Mileena players, they usually play the same way. Wake up teleport or roll when i'm dashing towards them. XD I just parry to discourage them from using that and mix them up with overheads and strings. But her d4 shuts down my momentum completely. -_-

ANYWAYS...

I say LK and KL is 5-5.

We have a response to everyone one of Kung Lao's special moves (Parry > Dive Kick and teleport). And with this new Patch coming out, Dragon kick > Low Hat 100% of the time at a far to mid distance. I think we have a bit more of a chance than 4-6.

 

[MK Peanuts]

Every time I play Mileena players, they usually play the same way. Wake up teleport or roll when i'm dashing towards them. XD I just parry to discourage them from using that and mix them up with overheads and strings. But her d4 shuts down my momentum completely. -_-

ANYWAYS...

I say LK and KL is 5-5.

We have a response to everyone one of Kung Lao's special moves (Parry > Dive Kick and teleport). And with this new Patch coming out, Dragon kick > Low Hat 100% of the time at a far to mid distance. I think we have a bit more of a chance than 4-6.

The more I play against Kung Lao the more I feel like the matchup is actually 5-5. He really does struggle to get around the instant air fireballs.

 

[Insane j]

what do you guys think about Cyrax vs LK? I found it rly hard if cyrax just runs away from LK and trade with net. It's rly hard to get in without EX flykick and if I spent bars for EX , than I can eat easly 60% combo. How to deal with defensive cyrax playstile ?

 

[MK Peanuts]

what do you guys think about Cyrax vs LK? I found it rly hard if cyrax just runs away from LK and trade with net. It's rly hard to get in without EX flykick and if I spent bars for EX , than I can eat easly 60% combo. How to deal with defensive cyrax playstile ?

Something important to note is that after Cyrax throws a net, he can't throw another one for several seconds. Don't use EX flying kick to get in, just dash block. After you block a net you've got about 2-3 seconds where he's free, so dash in, force him to block a f12, and then just go crazy. Cyrax's options to interrupt your pressure are below average, so once you're in there it's tough for him to get you out.

I would save all meter for breaker in this matchup. Like all of it. Don't x-ray and don't enhance anything. If you lose, it's because you got caught in a net and lost half your health. If you force him to beat you with pokes/command grabs/etc it makes it a lot harder for him.

Also, if you notice there's a situation where he always throws a bomb (like on your wake up, or that he always throws a far bomb and then a close one or something), that's a free flying kick.

 

[Insane j]

how about Kitana? I don't know this matchup. So I find it hard to know when to jump out or poke, her D1 is soo annoying. How do you guys deal with her pokes?
D1 D1 D1...

 

[MK Peanuts]

I unfortunately don't have a lot of Kitana experience so I couldn't tell you. You might want to check the Kitana forums to see what they're saying about the Liu Kang matchup, get some ideas that way.

 

[Rushdown Frenzy]

low and instant air fireballs stuff those guys easily. The fans are pretty simple imho for Liu Kang to get around, and because of the fireballs you have a better zoning game than her. Her d1 unfortunately has greater distance than b+3, so what I usually do is I use f+12 because it's faster and it gets you in, then you proceed with Liu Kang pressure. If she wakes up with fan lift, then block, and punish with Liu's b+312 combo.

If I'm getting rushed down by a Kitana that likes to use her strings that move her forward, I like to parry to discourage her from moving in to Liu Kang as much, and then proceed with wakeup tactics.

Those are just my two cents against Kitanas. I've faced quite a few of them online and my strategy seems to work, though I've fought some Kitanas that know exactly what to do against Liu as well that gave for some very good matches regardless.



What I would like to know though is this: How to handle Liu Kang's arguably toughest matchup, Noob Saibot.

As it so happens, I get counter-picked several times a day when playing online, and I find Noob to be a strenuous uphill struggle. Pretty much the only way I've found to keep up with him is through IAF's all day to build meter, EX-Flying kick his shadows, and then bait his upward shadow kicks to punish with f+12 and pressure accordingly. Are there any other useful tips for the newbies handling this match? B+312 is pretty much useless in this match unless the Noob is sloppy. And what does Liu kang have against Noob's portal reset?

 

[Demonfang10]

I don't mind it. I hate fighting Liu Kang. I usually have a better chance at beating Kung Lao. Im no noob but I just can't find a good counter to him or figure how to counter him in the first place.

If you want to beat him, out pressure him, beat him to the chase. Or be a gay zoner when he has no meter lol jk. It says you main sub and raiden, you should have no troubles. Also, off topic, you guys actually use LK online. I hate it when people rage, call me a noob on the chat and then nobody will want to battle me. I had to pick up a alternate, kabal (who is like LK EXACTY, zoning, extensive pressure, and iafb's) to use online. Only when i'm on a losing streak is when i wip out LK.

 

[TeeJayKay]

im trying to learn kang, i've been having success with him except with Cyrax and Ermac. I need help with those two espicially ermac. Advice please

 

[Insane j]

best advice for those 2 is to rush them down. Just pressure from very first second of the match. Save meter for breaker, otherwise you will eat 60% damge.

vs Ermac, try to bite and punish his wake up options. Ermac is kinda slow char, so crossover jumps are also very good.

 

[Liu_Kang]

im trying to learn kang, i've been having success with him except with Cyrax and Ermac. I need help with those two espicially ermac. Advice please

Cyrax has poor wakes, except the donkey kick EX. If you are Liu you can rushdown to him with 312, and play mind games with the overheads to. Need to pay attentions to the wake up, once you block this, rushdown him all day...

 

[Insane j]

what you guys think about Reptile ? Do you think is it better to try to rush him down or try to zone with low fireballs? Or mix it up.
This matchup is kinda 6:4 reptile IMO.

 

[JacopeX]

After playing several online and offline matches and watching many LK matcheso n stream against many different players, here are my changes in BOLD to the match up chart:

5-5 vs Baraka
4-6 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
4-6 vs Freddy Krueger
5-5 vs Jade
6-4 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
5-5 vs Kano
5-5 vs Kenshi
6-4 vs Kitana
5-5 vs Kung Lao
6-4 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
3-7 vs Noob Saibot
5-5 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
5-5 vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
6-4 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
6-4 vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
6-4 vs Stryker
6-4 vs Sub-Zero

We should also keep an official LK match up chart updated every time we all come to an agreement amongst ourselves and the other sub forums towards certain match ups...

 

[MK Peanuts]

After playing several online and offline matches and watching many LK matcheso n stream against many different players, here are my changes in BOLD to the match up chart:

6-4 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Reptile
6-4 vs Skarlet

I'm curious about these ones. Could you explain your reasoning a bit on why you think these matchups get these numbers? Not trying to put you on blast or anything, just wondering. Thanks.

 

[Lou Kang]

yeah i dont understand where the advantage comes from against mileena

 

[greeneless]

I would say 5-5 vs mileena if not 6-4 in her favor. It's just definately not 6-4 in kang's favor. Reptile vs Kang I can see being 5v5, but he can elbow dash and interrupt pressure. Maybe 5.5-4.5.

Skarlet, I havent fought many of them, but I think its good at 6-4.

Correct me if I'm wrong but kang's low fireball will go underneath her dagger throws, won't it? Skarlet is based around zoning and has very slow normals, struggles up close, aside from her being somewhat broken with 9% chip block strings cancelable into a high/ low mixup. Kang will rape her at close range, and has the tools to counter everything she does at a distance.

 

[JacopeX]

I'm curious about these ones. Could you explain your reasoning a bit on why you think these matchups get these numbers? Not trying to put you on blast or anything, just wondering. Thanks.

Mileena:

You know, now that I think of it, it really depends on how you play this match up. If you're gonna go b312/f12 crazy up close or play your close range game like you do normally, you're going to lose this battle easily. That is how I used to play against her, but then I realized the key to this match up is patience, hence why I have beaten/gotten close against many good Mileena players. When you get that down, you'll see the limited options she has in getting in which are most of the time not that hard to anticipate due to the amount of options she has (Which are little).

What I am about to say is general, and not just for liu kang:

Blocking her teleport gives you a free combo or uppercut in case she tries to stop herself in mid air with sais, especially in the corner so the reward to that move is very questionable in my opinion (I'd like a Mileena player to call me out on this if I am wrong). Same goes to blocking her roll, which is not so hard to do but takes timing to punish if you want to follow it up with b312 or 213 but you can get her in juggling state with f12. The only reason why you must stay at a mid distance is to avoid her footsie game, annoying pressure, and dat overhead. In Liu Kang's case, parry is very very useful as well as his anti pressure. So once you discouraged Mileena from waking up with teleports anymore, she is going to have to eat your pressure and mix ups. But her defensive options....I still don't know much about that. Another thing i'd like someone to help explain this to me because I don't really observe that...

When it comes to zoning, Low fireball beats sais, but I would not suggest doing this carelessly if you don't want to eat a stunning teleport kick or even worst an ex teleport kick.

As for the match up ratio, it really depends but this is just my opinion that it is 6-4 since I have not lost badly to a Mileena player in a while. But everyone is different. What do you think?


Reptile:

Pretty much what greeneless said. I mean, I don't see this as a huge disadvantage, or maybe I have not played enough reptiles to actually see how they get around good fireball pressure (kinda like in Sub Zero's case, but just better). Ex elbow dash does help them progress and get in. But then again, that acid ball does kill the zoning tremendously.

Skarlett:

Despite her doing insane damage, Liu Kang has the tools to defeat her. I really need to play more skarlett matches in order to really explain this match up but I only remember losing to one Skarlet out of many. Maybe they were either not that good and it was only hard for me or I just suck and was really getting my ass kicked. I always keep parrying that blood teleport somehow. It's so fun...XD

 

[JacopeX]

Now I am beginning to question the Johnny Cage match up. If decimal numbers are allowed, i'd say 4.5-5.5. Very Slight disadvantage for us.

Same goes to Kano.

 

[greeneless]

I'm gonna stay on Mileena.. Because I am persistent. If a character forces you to turtle (not rush, and not zone either), then they have the advantage in the matchup. I understand if you feel like you've figured out the match up, by being patient.. but 6-4 is not insurmountable. Just because you win almost every mileena match doesn't mean she doesnt have the character advantage. Hell, I beat most Noob Saibots I play with kang. What you're doing with your patience, is your waiting for her to make a mistake. What if she doesn't? Mileena takes Kang's tools away just by appearing on the loading screen. If you slow down the game and take her tools away, then maybe it's a 5-5 matchup.

It's not 6-4 in favor of kang though. No way.

 

[JacopeX]

Now that you mention it, I wonder who has the advantage at certain aspects of range, priority, and frames. Hope to find a Mileena player willing to play more than one match with me.

It's pretty much based on how I play the match up and take advantage. I am basing my point of view from experience and how I have encountered every match up where I must take on a new strategy every time. My point of views are not meant to be taken as facts since I have before it's up for debate.

I just never fell for mileenas usual shenanigans. Maybe I still have yet to play a very good one but I am trying to think really hard of the possibilities. I mean, every time I end the zoning game short with Ex dragon kick, they will have to play their defensive game as I dash towards them to play my pressure game. What I have encountered and anticipated:

1)Wake up teleport kick
2)Wake up Roll
3)d4

And some other moves that actually keep me from any pressure strings. I remember being stopped by that low kick she does to bait a crouch for an overhead.

 

[greeneless]

It sounds like you're basing this on limited experience against good mileena players, most of which were played online. Sorry for assuming, if I'm wrong. Mileena has such a cracy low and overhead mixup.. along with her down 4, i feel like she can out play kang at close range which is supposed to be his strength. To me, it's 6-4 for Mileena, but if someone were to say it was 5-5 I wouldn't object.

I'm probably somewhat biased as well. Mileena gives me headaches, but looking at it objectively, she has counters for everything kang can put out there.

 

[JacopeX]

I did mention offline experience as well. I find her to be more of a headache online than offline. :\

 

[JacopeX]

After looking at the patch notes, the Sub Zero match up look pretty ugly.

I would change the ratio for 6-4 to 5-5. This match up is all about reading meter, distance, and how you play with them. Still need to play against sub zero and see how potentially difficult this match may be for me now.

 

[MK Peanuts]

Thanks for backing up your numbers with supporting arguments, JacopeX. Makes it easier to have a discussion about this stuff. A lot of people don't do that, so I appreciate it.

That said there's some things I still don't agree with.

Mileena:

Blocking her teleport gives you a free combo or uppercut in case she tries to stop herself in mid air with sais, especially in the corner so the reward to that move is very questionable in my opinion (I'd like a Mileena player to call me out on this if I am wrong). Same goes to blocking her roll, which is not so hard to do but takes timing to punish if you want to follow it up with b312 or 213 but you can get her in juggling state with f12.

You can't punish the roll with b312. I've tried and it can't be done. If you hit them while they're still airborne they go into a juggle state and you can't get a full combo. If you wait for them to hit the ground they can block. What's happening when you punish it with b312 is that they aren't blocking low.

That said, it can still be punished, but you have to use other things that aren't Liu Kang's usual bread and butters. I use dragon stance 1. f12 probably works as well but I haven't tried it.

In Liu Kang's case, parry is very very useful as well as his anti pressure. So once you discouraged Mileena from waking up with teleports anymore, she is going to have to eat your pressure and mix ups.

Parry against Mileena's wake ups seems extremely risky to me as her roll cannot be parried. It will certainly discourage wake up teleport, but at what cost? I wouldn't try this if I didn't have breaker available.

As for the match up ratio, it really depends but this is just my opinion that it is 6-4 since I have not lost badly to a Mileena player in a while. But everyone is different. What do you think?

Matchup numbers assume ideal play from both players, so beating a lot of Mileena players doesn't necessarily mean that the matchup is in Liu Kang's favor. I beat most Kung Lao players I play, but still feel that matchup is 5-5. A lot of the time people don't know the matchup as well as I do and that gives me an edge. blueNINE knows the matchup and when I play with him we generally split.



Some other Mileena items of note:

• Mileena can teleport on prediction of an instant air fireball, which grants her a full combo. The teleport only leads to full combos if it anti airs, but even being a pixel above the ground for an instant air fireball is enough.
• Liu Kang doesn't have a great answer for d4. He has to jump to get in around it, and being forced to jump opens him up to Mileena's numerous anti air options.

Pretty much what greeneless said. I mean, I don't see this as a huge disadvantage, or maybe I have not played enough reptiles to actually see how they get around good fireball pressure (kinda like in Sub Zero's case, but just better). Ex elbow dash does help them progress and get in. But then again, that acid ball does kill the zoning tremendously.

The issue with Reptile is that he lowers his hitbox on his dash and on his force ball, which causes instant air fireballs to miss him. This makes him very difficult to zone.

 

[JacopeX]

I agree with your output on the match and can now see what they can do right when it comes to this match up, especially with jump ins. I always realized I stayed on the ground when it came to this match up but could not pin point the reason. .XD I also never really was too precise with my explanation of parry and I know it cannot parry roll but teleport.

I strongly disagree with this match up being 4-6 as someone here has mentioned earlier.