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General/Other - Dualist Liu Kang: Dualist General Discussion

jordan ewell

jordan ewell

BlakBoywonder
XBlades said:
Hey guys got some more info on dualist..

B12 into style change can be comboed into f44 bicycle kick as well as 112 into style change. B1 is by far really good for armor moves since it is quick. As for setups i have been messing with ex dark ball after style change. In example f213 style change f44 into ex darkball. I mean its not safe but garantees explosion if opponent decides to counter poke or etc.. As for armor oh well lets hope not lol. Same can be said after yang to yin set up cept its safer since ex solar ball is plus 11 allows for constant flow of pressure. I believe i am starting to understand dualist more since it is a little complex in terms of setups as for orbs. But the more i keep playing this variation i feel the offense is way better than DF.
Click to expand...
I've been sticking with duelist and I believe I'm starting to understand as well. Even have some theory set ups that I'm going to test today, I've also been working on setups and kombos for various levels of charge and ex dark sphere. I have to test more out but duelist has so much potential that isn't obvious. Kind of like ronin takeda. I'm glad not many people play it but I'm sure they will flock when they see the work we've all put in lol
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
After 112 stance switch f44 bicycle kick he can now jail the opponent with 111 to be plus 2 so he can gain some more meter and deal some more chip which is nice.

Shame they didn't address the damage buff issues or the corner orb bug.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Phosferrax said:
After 112 stance switch f44 bicycle kick he can now jail the opponent with 111 to be plus 2 so he can gain some more meter and deal some more chip which is nice.

Shame they didn't address the damage buff issues or the corner orb bug.
Click to expand...
good to know...i am looking at all dualist bugs and will make a large post. Can you help me by listing everything you can think of?
 
V

Virtus

Noob
kaseyk said:
You can use the run cancel just like DF fireball cancels so you can cancel and stay in light stance if you don't want to use switch stance for frame trapping .
I need to get used to doing it still though
Click to expand...
Any tips on this? I feel this is really important to master. Is it just like DF fireball where if you aren't doing it, you just aren't fast enough?
 
K

kaseyk

Noob
Virtus said:
Any tips on this? I feel this is really important to master. Is it just like DF fireball where if you aren't doing it, you just aren't fast enough?
Click to expand...
Stance switch can be used to frame trap just like df but only one rotation aloud .
dark charge and yin can be used to throw off reversal timing and continue pressure .

Dark charge recovery is very fast so you can get away with alot but yin you have to be very precise on the timing to cancel like one hand wave . If you mess up you get the hand raise .50 health and long recovery
 
KH_Seraph

KH_Seraph

ҜømbÄŦ Ħøu&Ŧøπ
Man. Dualist needs some buffs big time in order to be viable, I feel like.

Reasons:
1. Light mode - The projectiles recovery is bad, and the startup on the low is ridiculous. The air fireballs also suck.
2. Heal - Need I say more? You have to hold it down for a full second in order to recovery a small sliver of health. Useless. It's just a taunt at the moment. Having at least an armored version of this that can absorb a hit would be useful.
3. Dark Mode - There is no point in using low solar orb. The start up is worse than the standing solar orb, and it doesn't even hit low once it explodes.
4. Being able to cancel strings into solar orb stop would be have been nice.
5. Solar orbs getting blown up in the corner for a majority of stages is REALLY lame. He is not as scary in the corner as he could be.
6. Being able to do at least one more rotation of the stance change mid-combo or block string would allow for some beast combos/setups. Might be considered OP by some, but... HE NEEDS IT! Lol.

These are just my gripes. Overall I like the chaos this variation can invoke, but I'll be damned if it doesn't have any issues with the way it is now. Dragon Fist variation, with it's Kabal-esque gameplay, just feels much superior in general for most matchups, and I wish Dualist was more viable against most of the cast because it's a really interesting variation to play.

I hate to be that guy, but what does everyone else think? Is there something I'm missing here or a good reason for the above? Is there any footage of GOOD dualist gameplay because I'm having a hard time finding them... I have a couple of decent setups but all you have to do is just block and wait for Liu to open himself up.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
KH_Seraph said:
Man. Dualist needs some buffs big time in order to be viable, I feel like.

Reasons:
1. Light mode - The projectiles recovery is bad, and the startup on the low is ridiculous. The air fireballs also suck.
2. Heal - Need I say more? You have to hold it down for a full second in order to recovery a small sliver of health. Useless. It's just a taunt at the moment. Having at least an armored version of this that can absorb a hit would be useful.
3. Dark Mode - There is no point in using low solar orb. The start up is worse than the standing solar orb, and it doesn't even hit low once it explodes.
4. Being able to cancel strings into solar orb stop would be have been nice.
5. Solar orbs getting blown up in the corner for a majority of stages is REALLY lame. He is not as scary in the corner as he could be.
6. Being able to do at least one more rotation of the stance change mid-combo or block string would allow for some beast combos/setups. Might be considered OP by some, but... HE NEEDS IT! Lol.

These are just my gripes. Overall I like the chaos this variation can invoke, but I'll be damned if it doesn't have any issues with the way it is now. Dragon Fist variation, with it's Kabal-esque gameplay, just feels much superior in general for most matchups, and I wish Dualist was more viable against most of the cast because it's a really interesting variation to play.

I hate to be that guy, but what does everyone else think? Is there something I'm missing here or a good reason for the above? Is there any footage of GOOD dualist gameplay because I'm having a hard time finding them... I have a couple of decent setups but all you have to do is just block and wait for Liu to open himself up.
Click to expand...
I dropped him till patch hits...we will see what happens.
 
jordan ewell

jordan ewell

BlakBoywonder
KH_Seraph said:
Man. Dualist needs some buffs big time in order to be viable, I feel like.

Reasons:
1. Light mode - The projectiles recovery is bad, and the startup on the low is ridiculous. The air fireballs also suck.
2. Heal - Need I say more? You have to hold it down for a full second in order to recovery a small sliver of health. Useless. It's just a taunt at the moment. Having at least an armored version of this that can absorb a hit would be useful.
3. Dark Mode - There is no point in using low solar orb. The start up is worse than the standing solar orb, and it doesn't even hit low once it explodes.
4. Being able to cancel strings into solar orb stop would be have been nice.
5. Solar orbs getting blown up in the corner for a majority of stages is REALLY lame. He is not as scary in the corner as he could be.
6. Being able to do at least one more rotation of the stance change mid-combo or block string would allow for some beast combos/setups. Might be considered OP by some, but... HE NEEDS IT! Lol.

These are just my gripes. Overall I like the chaos this variation can invoke, but I'll be damned if it doesn't have any issues with the way it is now. Dragon Fist variation, with it's Kabal-esque gameplay, just feels much superior in general for most matchups, and I wish Dualist was more viable against most of the cast because it's a really interesting variation to play.

I hate to be that guy, but what does everyone else think? Is there something I'm missing here or a good reason for the above? Is there any footage of GOOD dualist gameplay because I'm having a hard time finding them... I have a couple of decent setups but all you have to do is just block and wait for Liu to open himself up.
Click to expand...
I've been working on it. It's my favorite but dragons fire is clearly the best. I usually only use normal solar flare and hardly ever use the low one. While in dark stance I usually cancel F3 on hit into soul orb or use ex orbs as anti air or for when I know a person will press a button after my pressure with the correct spacing. I usually cancel F2,1,3 into yang charge to get level 2, and I try to approach carefully. Unfortunately you lose the damage buff if the make you block but at least you still get the faster explosion which is still useful. Sorry for the long post, I'm Interested to see some of your set ups as I don't think mine are that great lol
 
FOREVER EL1TE

FOREVER EL1TE

Noob
My usual block strings are
D3, S1,f213 SS. after that stance switch I'll do d3 or 111 so that I can stance switch again.. I might make another liu kang dualist video.. Along with a guide
 
Percimon

Percimon

Sky above, Voice within
Here are some videos of pressure and mix-ups:




(last one works fine, because 111 is +2 on block)
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
KH_Seraph said:
Man. Dualist needs some buffs big time in order to be viable, I feel like.

Reasons:
1. Light mode - The projectiles recovery is bad, and the startup on the low is ridiculous. The air fireballs also suck.
2. Heal - Need I say more? You have to hold it down for a full second in order to recovery a small sliver of health. Useless. It's just a taunt at the moment. Having at least an armored version of this that can absorb a hit would be useful.
3. Dark Mode - There is no point in using low solar orb. The start up is worse than the standing solar orb, and it doesn't even hit low once it explodes.
4. Being able to cancel strings into solar orb stop would be have been nice.
5. Solar orbs getting blown up in the corner for a majority of stages is REALLY lame. He is not as scary in the corner as he could be.
6. Being able to do at least one more rotation of the stance change mid-combo or block string would allow for some beast combos/setups. Might be considered OP by some, but... HE NEEDS IT! Lol.

These are just my gripes. Overall I like the chaos this variation can invoke, but I'll be damned if it doesn't have any issues with the way it is now. Dragon Fist variation, with it's Kabal-esque gameplay, just feels much superior in general for most matchups, and I wish Dualist was more viable against most of the cast because it's a really interesting variation to play.

I hate to be that guy, but what does everyone else think? Is there something I'm missing here or a good reason for the above? Is there any footage of GOOD dualist gameplay because I'm having a hard time finding them... I have a couple of decent setups but all you have to do is just block and wait for Liu to open himself up.
Click to expand...
Dualist is BAD. It is unfinished, but with the right fixes/buffs could be decent. All the things you listed are legit problems with the variation and there is literally no reason to ever use this variation over Dragon's Fire.

It has much worse zoning and worse pressure than DF, and the corner orb bug and damage buff bug break the variation.
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Phosferrax said:
111 is neutral on block, the frame data is (unsurprisingly) wrong. 111 whiffs on the entire cast in one form or another if they just block low.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of things incorrectly listed as +2 on block but I think 111 might actually be legit. I tested it on block vs Kung Lao's reversal spin and I was able to stuff it with another standing 1.

Unless of course, training mode is just being training mode.
 
XBlades

XBlades

To Achieve, You must Believe
Dualist is the Best! lol using EN solar orb into block strings and EN solar flare which is +14 is really good if you are trying to delay for another stance switch. As well as Charging to lvl 1 or lvl 2 from yang stance to keep orbs out in place. Air orbs are good to. A nice timed uppercut into air orb combo potential is disgusting. If you are going to put work in a character persevere and don't cry please. I am sure NRS will patch soon, other than that work with what you got. We all know DF stance is good, but throwing other variations into the mix will give you an edge about your character than anyone else. Besides stance switch into b12 stuffs armor keep this in mind for heavy meter usage character I.E Kung jin.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
FOREVER EL1TE said:
Guys, here is some dualist pressure. Both videos are during a match, so this shows how it will be utilized..

Click to expand...
FOREVER EL1TE said:
Here's another video.. Just showcasing his pressure in a match
Click to expand...
These people are respecting your pressure way too much. The f213 orb can be jumped out of if you go straight into more pressure. I see people who don't know the mu... not a strong character.
 
jordan ewell

jordan ewell

BlakBoywonder
XBlades said:
Dualist is the Best! lol using EN solar orb into block strings and EN solar flare which is +14 is really good if you are trying to delay for another stance switch. As well as Charging to lvl 1 or lvl 2 from yang stance to keep orbs out in place. Air orbs are good to. A nice timed uppercut into air orb combo potential is disgusting. If you are going to put work in a character persevere and don't cry please. I am sure NRS will patch soon, other than that work with what you got. We all know DF stance is good, but throwing other variations into the mix will give you an edge about your character than anyone else. Besides stance switch into b12 stuffs armor keep this in mind for heavy meter usage character I.E Kung jin.
Click to expand...
I'm with you man. I'm gonna keep working on this one until I get it right lol
 
KH_Seraph

KH_Seraph

ҜømbÄŦ Ħøu&Ŧøπ
AK L0rdoftheFLY said:
These people are respecting your pressure way too much. The f213 orb can be jumped out of if you go straight into more pressure. I see people who don't know the mu... not a strong character.
Click to expand...
To be fair lol, no one really knows the matchup to Dualist. He gets away with a lot for free if you 'look like you know what you're doing.' I was playing online yesterday and was VERY scrubby, yet I was able to get away with a lot because people still tried to block orbs.

I agree though he's not a strong character. :(
 
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