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General/Other - Dualist Liu Kang: Dualist General Discussion

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
So I had about 10 hours on Friday with Duelist where I played @Pig Of The Hut mostly and had some practice time. I also had about 2 hours today with smarr and homelee and have a few thoughts to share.

I can't stop thinking about how I can make this variation successful and what setups and strats will be effective so I am just going to put my thoughts on paper and talk it out with guys who already are playing him like @Cat and guys who are thirsty for knowledge about Liu Kang.

Also because I don't remember the names of stuff I'll use input numbers and made up names.

"LIGHT" stance:
In Duelist you start off in the game in light stance which gives you access to 3 unique moves.

1) high fireball - decent basic fireball but nothing special. EX version knocks down and is very very plus on block so you can use as a good frame trap on block. In the corner if it hits you can juggle after for a decent combo. It can also be done in the air.

2) low fireball - No EX version but other than that it is the same as above.

3) heal chant - This moves heals you at .05% ever little bit. I mean...if you have a time out on your hands and you want to troll or get a little bit of life back real quick. It cannot be cancelled into any specials or X-ray but it can be dashed forwards or backwards out of it. I think that is kinda dumb and overall it seems more useless than Cyborgs ever was.

Combos don't seem to change and but the value of this variation is having two stances that work better against different variations but it all being in one character. The projectile game in light stance differes so much from dark stance that it can drastically change some MU.

"DARK" stance:
The fireball and setup game is very different here so I'll go through them like above.

1) high orb - This special has NO hitbox until it is cancelled. It travels across the screen at a slower pace and can be stopped at any point in its trajectory with db1. (The moves list says it is fdb 1 but I was able to do it with just db1 thankfully.) Even after it is cancelled, the hitbox doesn't appear right away but rather it acts just like Martian Manhunters regular orbs, exploding after a certain amount of time. When it explodes on block it appears to act as a mid hitting normal that is neutral but on hit pops you up for a combo. This can be done in the air as well.

The MB version does more damage and explodes almost immediately after it is cancelled and is more plus on block. It also grants a pop up and combo on hit.

2) Low orb - Acts 100% like the high orb except that it is lower to the ground. It is not actually a low which is a bummer...however it can be fun to fill the screen with orbs at different heights to fluster your opponent. There is no limit to how many orbs you can have on screen at a time.

3) power charge - has 3 stages and can be held down or cancelled out of by dashing. It actually charges to level 3 rather quickly and can be linked after a string for quickness. It causes the orbs to explode more quickly and do significantly more damage. For example, a MB orbs that hits does 18% damage and pops you up for much more damage.

I much prefer the dark stance when playing pigs kenshi due to his reflect and teleport in possessed variation but against @AK Smarrgasm I had more success (lol don't get your salt on me) with the light stance against his sub zero. Subs ice clone absorbs all projectiles in both stances regardless of if they are cancelled. Kenshi cannot reflect the orbs so each stance has an easier time and I shouldn't have to switch variations as much.


Strategy:

I foundmyself cancelling most strings into his spin fist (db2). It is -1 and causes a far knockdown that lets me set up orbs or run in for oki.

His combos felt limited due to not having many launchers like the variation cat has been using. Once I got people used to seeing the strings into db2 I would cancel mid string to orbs and instant j1 or d1/d3 and do it again. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't but I know execution will be challenging and that it will keep my interest.

I'm hoping someone else has had some time with this variation and can give me new things to try.

Cheers!
 
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SRP

Noob
Nice. I never liked Kang in Mortal Kombat, but his variations have me wanting t try him out when I get the game tomorrow.
 

KH_Seraph

ҜømbÄŦ Ħøu&Ŧøπ
Dualist is another variation I'm really interested in. How do you think it stacks up in Kenshi matchup?

Dark orbs still can't go through sub zeros ice clone? That's a bummer...
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
Dualist is another variation I'm really interested in. How do you think it stacks up in Kenshi matchup?

Dark orbs still can't go through sub zeros ice clone? That's a bummer...
yea its weird...they get absorbed like a regular projectile.

I like the dark stance better than the light cause I can set up orbs in front of me to stop his teleport in possessed as well as him not being able to reflect them means he has to either keep attacking or moving. teleflurry gets punished with flying kick from 3/4 screen or closer too which keeps him honest.

Its really too early to tell and this variation is so execution heavy it was tough to get a real feel for it.
 
2) Low orb - Acts 100% like the high orb except that it is lower to the ground. It is not actually a low which is a bummer...however it can be fun to fill the screen with orbs at different heights to fluster your opponent. There is no limit to how many orbs you can have on screen at a time.
Oh, the shenanigans...
Great post btw! Made me even more interested in Liu and all of his variations than I already am.
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
@AK L0rdoftheFLY good stuff man. I messed with duelist a bit but not as much as you have. I been focusing in dragon stance just to get his basics down before trying to go to a more technical variation.
I had some matches vs mattix kenshi the other day with dragon and didn't do to bad. Although he has not really been in TraiNing yet. I'll dm you the set if you want.

Yesterday I played scars Jax and pretty much got bodied to death in the corner.
Scar figured out quick that you can armor thru f44 which is hid best string.
If you haven't seen the matches they are on the match up analysis forum for mkx.

Keep grinding him out. I been taking a more liking to sub to be hones . Going back to my roots it seems. Lol
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
@AK L0rdoftheFLY good stuff man. I messed with duelist a bit but not as much as you have. I been focusing in dragon stance just to get his basics down before trying to go to a more technical variation.
I had some matches vs mattix kenshi the other day with dragon and didn't do to bad. Although he has not really been in TraiNing yet. I'll dm you the set if you want.

Yesterday I played scars Jax and pretty much got bodied to death in the corner.
Scar figured out quick that you can armor thru f44 which is hid best string.
If you haven't seen the matches they are on the match up analysis forum for mkx.

Keep grinding him out. I been taking a more liking to sub to be hones . Going back to my roots it seems. Lol
Please do pm them. I'd love to watch

As for continuing to grind, I'm not sure man. Kang seems super cool and more of a long term project. we shall see
 

PANDEMlC

El Psy Congroo
The dark stance sounds interesting, makes what would otherwise be a boring character to me potentially really fun. I'll have to try him out.
 

FREEJ4Y

waiting for the balance patch
i've been messing with the dark stance. i feel like the light stance is only there to annoy me because the dark stance is much better right now.

I've been going for standing mix up after BK

If i land F44 High Orb stop d1 i was hitting my friend out of most things.

have to go back and make sure it's legit

Right now i'm doing
JP 113 B34 F44 orb
This string sends them flying and you can set the orb where you'd like or charge.

JP 113 B34 BK D2 also gives you some time to set up or switch stance

Today i'll check to see what strings cancelled into stance switch are safe or punishable.
112 safe
F44 safe
 
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jordan ewell

BlakBoywonder
I was looking to start out with this variation when I got the game and I'm glad you made this thread. I'll be looking out for more info that you put out from now on man. I'm not sure if you mentioned it or not but does the fact that you can dash cancel out of charge in either stance give him lots of positive frame advantage after strings cancelled into charge? Or is it more negative or neutral. I guess how viable do you think it will be is what I'm asking?
 

FREEJ4Y

waiting for the balance patch
I was looking to start out with this variation when I got the game and I'm glad you made this thread. I'll be looking out for more info that you put out from now on man. I'm not sure if you mentioned it or not but does the fact that you can dash cancel out of charge in either stance give him lots of positive frame advantage after strings cancelled into charge? Or is it more negative or neutral. I guess how viable do you think it will be is what I'm asking?
I've been trying it and can't get frame advantage. Maybe it can be used to catch your opponent off guard or to bait with a backdash, but i'm having a hard time turning it into something. I'm off work the next few days so i'll go through all the cancels into stance and see if anything good comes from it.

Feels at least -1 or -2 in training mode. Learning towards -1 from the strings i've tried. Haven't been punishable tho so that's a good thing.

I think it's along the lines of Sinestro where you want to get a knockdown or a high juggle and cancel to the charge.
 

jordan ewell

BlakBoywonder
I've been trying it and can't get frame advantage. Maybe it can be used to catch your opponent off guard or to bait with a backdash, but i'm having a hard time turning it into something. I'm off work the next few days so i'll go through all the cancels into stance and see if anything good comes from it.

Feels at least -1 or -2 in training mode. Learning towards -1 from the strings i've tried. Haven't been punishable tho so that's a good thing.

I think it's along the lines of Sinestro where you want to get a knockdown or a high juggle and cancel to the charge.
Thanks for the info man. Really appreciate the pre game day info. I'm looking to get very serious into this game
 
If you live in Europe, they've been leaking it like wildfire apparently.
I know right? I was at Fatal8 this weekend thinking I'm one of the first and only people to play MKX before release (besides testers obviously) but when I looked on TYM, it seemed like everyone played it already. I'm like how? Lmao
 

RexxyC

what's done is done
I know right? I was at Fatal8 this weekend thinking I'm one of the first and only people to play MKX before release (besides testers obviously) but when I looked on TYM, it seemed like everyone played it already. I'm like how? Lmao
If you check up on twitch, I actually don't think it's any Americans at all. It's always German or French; we'll see about that global release date for the next NRS game.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
I've been trying it and can't get frame advantage. Maybe it can be used to catch your opponent off guard or to bait with a backdash, but i'm having a hard time turning it into something. I'm off work the next few days so i'll go through all the cancels into stance and see if anything good comes from it.

Feels at least -1 or -2 in training mode. Learning towards -1 from the strings i've tried. Haven't been punishable tho so that's a good thing.

I think it's along the lines of Sinestro where you want to get a knockdown or a high juggle and cancel to the charge.
I agree. It's best off a launcher or knockdown
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
If you check up on twitch, I actually don't think it's any Americans at all. It's always German or French; we'll see about that global release date for the next NRS game.
I live in NY, we've been playing since Thursday and Friday man lol.
 

RexxyC

what's done is done
I live in NY, we've been playing since Thursday and Friday man lol.
yes but every stream on twitch isn't coming from america, i'm saying the majority of the leak is coming from European countries. I wish I had the hook-up.