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LBSH Tombstone Bottom 5?

bipolar_shango

" Bros before Hoes"
IMO Nightwolf is a good character... there are just better characters in the game. That said he is probably bottom 9 which is not such a terrible thing in this game... unless there are 8 REO's in your pool.
 

zaf

professor
i remember a time when people were saying nw beats ermac 6-4 / 5.5 - 4.5 .

what has changed that gives ermac the advantage in the mu now?
 

Espio

Kokomo
So... Kano is dead. Now Nightwolf is dead too? Whose next? Baraka? Stryker?
Not as long as I'm around.

You're implying that they were alive at one point.

I mean, at least Sheeva is still making appearances.
Stryker does still make appearences offline(I use him when I go to tournaments as recently as July, also the end of July, techniqually August you could say...I just wasn't on stream). If I could travel a bunch, he'd be out a lot more too.


I'm gettign another job soon, so if I can find time between college I might start traveling again if not..who knows.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
It doesn't matter if he's 'bottom five' or not, which he probably isn't, he still is weak.

He's more tournament viable than a character like Baraka, Sheeva or Jade IMO
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
They're both footsies based characters, and Baraka has a lot more to worry about in that department. Plus a reset and mix-ups.
Everybody has mix-ups, Barakas reset isnt a reset to worry because he doesnt get gauranteed strings after his reset from certain combos.
 

TheTetraSpirit

Kombatant
Everybody has mix-ups, Barakas reset isnt a reset to worry because he doesnt get gauranteed strings after his reset from certain combos.
Let me correct myself then. Safe 50/50 combo starters. And while he's not guaranteed a F2/B3 after a reset, it still has a good chance of knicking you, or he can just F44 again to check you.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
It's guaranteed against anything but armor, which you can always bait, and B32xxEX Slices is safe.
B32 ex slices is 1 bar, so thats 1 bar on a 50/50 that doesnt lead to much and a reset that doesnt give you anything.

Its not 100% certain against anything but armour, 6f jabs beat out his follow ups, and I think KL/Sektor/Sonya standing jabs do too.
 

TheTetraSpirit

Kombatant
B32 ex slices is 1 bar, so thats 1 bar on a 50/50 that doesnt lead to much and a reset that doesnt give you anything.

Its not 100% certain against anything but armour, 6f jabs beat out his follow ups, and I think KL/Sektor/Sonya standing jabs do too.
It's still better than letting them fall.
And yes, it is 100% guaranteed to follow a reset with F44. He's +19 after it and F4 is 12 frames. F2 is, I believe, 18 frames, so good luck squeezing something out between that with any consistency.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
It's still better than letting them fall.
And yes, it is 100% guaranteed to follow a reset with F44. He's +19 after it and F4 is 12 frames. F2 is, I believe, 18 frames, so good luck squeezing something out between that with any consistency.
He's +9 on F4 on normal standing hit, +1 against crouch and he also loses some of those frames the lower to the ground you use the F4 in a combo (or higher gravity), thats why people can get 6f jabs etc out. So not its not 100%, as well as that I'd already tested it.
 

TheTetraSpirit

Kombatant
He's +9 on F4 on normal standing hit, +1 against crouch and he also loses some of those frames the lower to the ground you use the F4, thats why people can get 6f jabs etc out. So not its not 100%, as well as that I'd already tested it.
Why is he doing it on the ground or against crouching opponents? He's not. You end combos with it, in the air, where the advantage is significantly higher.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
When you get reset at max height, I'm pretty sure he's at more than +12, meaning you're stuck.
If its max height that means you've sacrificed damage, which Baraka doesnt exactly get without the corner. Thats still an unfair trade going back to the fact that he requires meter for a safe 5050, especially when characters like Kabal can do the exact same thing for alot more damage and alot less risk.

NWs arrow trap is pretty bad, but I'd put it above most things Baraka can do, as well as his throw wakeup game too.
 

TheTetraSpirit

Kombatant
If its max height that means you've sacrificed damage, which Baraka doesnt exactly get without the corner. Thats still an unfair trade going back to the fact that he requires meter for a safe 5050, especially when characters like Kabal can do the exact same thing for alot more damage and alot less risk.

NWs arrow trap is pretty bad, but I'd put it above most things Baraka can do, as well as his throw wakeup game too.
Just because it's not Kabal or Cage's reset doesn't make it bad. And sacrificing damage for pressure/mix-ups is exactly what resets are for, along with disabling wake-ups.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Just because it's not Kabal or Cage's reset doesn't make it bad. And sacrificing damage for pressure/mix-ups is exactly what resets are for, along with disabling wake-ups.
Not in MK, sacrificing damage for resets are for Baraka and Skarlet only. Pretty much everybody else that has one gets equal or more damage from theirs, or doesnt really need it. (Ermac)

So in terms of MK yea its bad.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
This is the LBSH Tombstone MU chart. Enjoy!!

Scorp 4-6
Luis kang 3-7
Kung Lao 4-6
Sub zero 3-7
Sindel 5-5
Ermac 4-6
Reptile 4-6
Kitana 4-6
Cage 4-6
Jade 5-5
Mileena 3-7
Cyrax 3-7
Cyblax 3-7
Noob 5-5
Smoke 4-6
Sektor 4-6
Sonya 2-8
Jax 3-7
Kano 5-5
Stryker 5-5
Shang 5-5
Baraka 5-5
Kabal 2-8
Raiden 4-6
Freddy 2-8
Rain 4-6
Kenshi 2-8
Skarlet 3-7
Csub 5-5
Sheeva 6-4
Quan chi 6-4
let me explain some MU because there are skeptics I see.

Quan chi 6-4: NW can still chill full screen and punish everything he does. Reflect skulls, punish trance, punish teleport wiffs. Quan HAS to get in and a match like that is hard for him. The big thing is that NW doesn't need meter in this MU and he can save it all for breakers on rune trap.

Skarlet 3-7: NW has a very large hitbox while blocking making f212 strings hit on him crouch blocking. 7 frame low pokes means he gets beat by her 6 frame d1 as well as iacd. He can't reflect because first dagger does only 2% back to her, but he is unable to reflect the second dagger which does 4% so he cannot zone her. She wins up close and far...plus she does more damage and is more dangerous the more meter she gets.

Ermac 4-6: off of air to airs he gets more damage and has the option to end in a reset. His pressure isn't half bad, is neutral in most situations, and an lead to a safe jump or 45% damage. NW can still punish push with shoulder most times but that hasn't changed. It's the other things that make it a SLIGHT advantage for Ermac

Luis kang 3-7: b312 stuffs most attempts to poke and can wiff punish a d3 or d1 easily. His corner carry on combos is the best in the game and his normals are fast. He has great recovery on projectiles that make reflect less effective. B312 is also a very easy punish for shoulder and can be done almost every time on reaction.

Sub Zero 3-7: his strings cannot be ducked by NW. This pushes him to the corner with a complete guess as to when to try and poke or armor. Lightning can be slid on reaction. Lightning was what made this MU even before IMO...but after playing Tom Brady at MLG I see how easy it is to get him in the corner. Despite what anyone says...once in the corner against someone smart, you aren't getting out with NW. When your put of meter...good luck.