LBSH about kenshi

[Big Pampering]

Tbh, it can't be denied that Spirit Charge is a ridiculously good move; 8 frames, big hitbox and range, decent push back and it's only -10 on block.

It also can't be denied that having buckets of armour and an armoured move in particular being +7 on block with huge push back is ridiculously good.

But, taking way Spirit Charge leaves Kenshi as really not that great of a character. He has really mediocre damage and is quite meter dependent. I think a lot of people forget that Pig is a beast as well. Players forget footsies and patient when playing against kenshi. He ends up almost always just backing himself into the corner.

the real problem is the armor, when cage or kitana gets in kenshi can still armor things on reaction and if they block it he will be at +. one slight nerf and it would be okay imo. ex spirit charge needs to be neutral on block.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Tbh I am going to pick Kenshi up.

Baraka is all about spacing and patience. Kenshi is all about spacing and patience.

Makes sense, we will see.

 

[YOMI DJT]

Kind words sir. I´ll just have to be the kenshi south of the border. And pig, oh my god that signature. The good old days.

Also, how the hell does ANOTHER thread basically stating the already known (Kenshi is awesome) have 7 pages of replies, and my new video on high damage reversals has THREE comments? Get on it! http://testyourmight.com/threads/ultimate-kenshi-pt-5-advanced-position-reversals.26629/

good stuff bro. that would be cool if you were one of the commentators for mlg with tom brady. I think you got the voice for it aha. something random I was thinking about.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

good stuff bro. that would be cool if you were one of the commentators for mlg with tom brady. I think you got the voice for it aha. something random I was thinking about.

Ages ago I talked to Pig about getting me on by cellphone and putting a mic to it so I could commentate while watching the stream. I still want to do this!!!

 

[DJ L Toro]

Don't be so unsure about the match-up. Lao rapes Kenshi. The reason you had doubts is probably because of the disparity in levels between you and Pig (don't take this the wrong way by the way, Pig would maul most of us anyway).

that's not what i meant. i know i got beat because pig's better than me, but just the way that the game was played didnt feel like a 7-3 lao. it felt like it was even so long as the kenshi played it tactfully. everything i took damage for and ultimately lost close matches in was punishment for the gimmicky stuff laos like to do. I've come to the conclusion that it can be 5-5 if the lao cannot help but do punishable stuff (most laos cant, pig seemed to act if i was even 1 frame late on my pressure and on reaction to any mobility tool that wasnt walking), but if played extremely fundamentally (like how CD jr plays lao) that's when it's 7-3 lao. He did the exact same thing to brady who's lao is made as an anti-mileena and anti-kenshi.

 

[Dizzy]

I admittedly haven't read the whole thread but having a dp that is advantage on block is one of the most broken things you can give a character, let alone one that is one of the fastest moves in the game.

 

[Obs_SmSwag]

REO's the best Kabal by far, but do we ignore Detroit winning Anaheim with Kabal, or CD Jr. making the Grand Finals of EVO with his inexperienced Kabal?

Agreed with your post, but felt the need to point that out.

Lbsh though, Detroit's Kabal lost to Scorpion (not to take anything away from M.I.T or Detroit). Plus, I heard he was going pretty much all Shang Tsung at Anaheim. That's like saying SawnikFawk got 4th at NEC with Sonya, even though I used her maybe 2 times.

You're right in pointing that out though, I totally forgot about that. People gotta make up their minds though, do they want Kenshi to be called cheap or do they want him out of S tier. Everyone in S tier is usually pretty fucking cheap lol.

 

[Prinz]

He's definitely cheap, but doesn't mean he doesn't require skill. You have to know how to time that bf2, it's fundamentals material. #sarcasmandjademusalt

 

[MortySeinfeld]

Kung Lao punishes SC the easiest on block with his long rage 7f 2. Kung Lao gets in on Kenshi the easiest out of any character and pummels him with jab pressure. Kenshi's insane wall game is not effective against Kung Lao since he is the most mobile character and the hardest to keep against the corner. Kung Lao is also the ONLY character in the game that can bait super armor SC / RK from Kenshi with teleport mix-ups after a cross-up and punish with full combo reliably.

If Kabal beats Kenshi 7-3, then Kung Lao beats Kenshi 8-2. It should be basic logic really. Stop downplaying Kung Lao and overlooking his tools in this match-up. It's almost as if Kung Lao was designed to counter Kenshi.

Kung Lao rapes Kenshi, but I don't think you're punishing any SC's with 7f standing 2 because of push block.

The push block on Spirit Charge (assuming the SC was done from absolute point blank) will cause the 21 to whiff (21212 isn't possible because the 1 whiffs). The only combo you're going to be getting from this would be '2 xx EX Spin, stuff'.

I personally think:

- Kung Lao vs. Kenshi = 7-3
- Kabal vs. Kenshi = 6-4

I have a lot of Kenshi experience.

Edit: EX-Spin seems like the best punish for regular Spirit Charge.

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

I think many people are wording some of their statements wrong. Kenshi's normals and his specials are quite simple and his fundamental game seems to be quite simple. Could be the easiest character to pick up next to cage or reptile but doesn't mean hes cheap. I do have to agree one certain MUs he can be considered braindead because thats all he does is sit back and throw out specials but cmon... most people who cry out braindead when they see kenshi are looking at his 7-3s and experiencing them from the bad side. Obviously a cage player will say hes braindead because the MU is heavily in Kenshi's favor. All the even/bad MUs are extremely hard to play at the highest level and their is only one who obviously has the skill to succeed which is Pigshi. Kenshi may be easy to use in heavily advantage MUs but people are leaving out some of the MUs he has to work for.

 

[GLoRToR]

Delay tele 3 will hit any opponent crouching, and give you a blockstring against anybody.

So it's unpunishable?

 

[coolwhip]

Lbsh though, Detroit's Kabal lost to Scorpion (not to take anything away from M.I.T or Detroit). Plus, I heard he was going pretty much all Shang Tsung at Anaheim. That's like saying SawnikFawk got 4th at NEC with Sonya, even though I used her maybe 2 times.

You're right in pointing that out though, I totally forgot about that. People gotta make up their minds though, do they want Kenshi to be called cheap or do they want him out of S tier. Everyone in S tier is usually pretty fucking cheap lol.

Nah, Detroit used Kabal heavily at Anaheim, for most of top 8 anyway. He mainly used Kabal. But yeah, I agree with your overall point. Personally, I don't like complaining about good characters.

 

[coolwhip]

that's not what i meant. i know i got beat because pig's better than me, but just the way that the game was played didnt feel like a 7-3 lao. it felt like it was even so long as the kenshi played it tactfully. everything i took damage for and ultimately lost close matches in was punishment for the gimmicky stuff laos like to do. I've come to the conclusion that it can be 5-5 if the lao cannot help but do punishable stuff (most laos cant, pig seemed to act if i was even 1 frame late on my pressure and on reaction to any mobility tool that wasnt walking), but if played extremely fundamentally (like how CD jr plays lao) that's when it's 7-3 lao. He did the exact same thing to brady who's lao is made as an anti-mileena and anti-kenshi.

I actually think the way to play Kenshi with Lao is the way PL does it, not CD Jr. In other words, be as freaking mobile as you can't and completely overwhelm him. The problem is, at the highest level, a split second or a bad/good read can make all the difference. PL plays at a different speed to everyone, and understands how to use Lao's mobility (especially tele 3) better than anyone, which is why he's so good at match-ups where Lao has to be very mobile (Kenshi, Smoke, etc...) while struggling with match-ups where Lao has to be more patient (Cyrax, Cage). Find footage of PL playing against Kenshi and study them. Not that we're ever going to fully replicate that but at least we'd get pointers.

Tom plays the Mileena match-up better than anyone I've seen, but for all the talk about him playing Kenshi right (and he does most of the time), all he was doing was tele 3/late 3, 1,1,2,1 and cross overs. Not once did he use the 2,1 string, and not once did he get a read on Pig's D1 to blow it up with spin. He was barely even using 2,4. It's unlike Tom to play with such predictable patterns but everyone has off days. Pig was playing insane all weekend though, and funnily enough, more so than ever when he was drunk against Tom.

 

[coolwhip]

So it's unpunishable?

As has been previously mentioned/proven in the thread, Foxy's statement is inaccurate. The tele itself is obviously punishable before the player gets to delay the 3, and it's still punishable after he delays the 3 if he chooses to automatically go for a block string like 99.9% of Lao players do because they think it gives them a free block string when it really doesn't (I'm often guilty of doing that as well, because it goes unpunished so many times). In theory, it is full combo punishable but that is somewhat hard in a real match, but there's no reason why it shouldn't be stopped with a D1 or uppercut.

 

[GLoRToR]

full combo punishable

Whew. I was afraid there for a moment. I simply refused to play Laos that I couldn't d1~pressure after this calling it lag. I wasn't ignorant after all then. It -is- lag if I can't d1 it. Thanks mate.

 

[Treadmill]

I think many people are wording some of their statements wrong. Kenshi's normals and his specials are quite simple and his fundamental game seems to be quite simple. Could be the easiest character to pick up next to cage or reptile but doesn't mean hes cheap. I do have to agree one certain MUs he can be considered braindead because thats all he does is sit back and throw out specials but cmon... most people who cry out braindead when they see kenshi are looking at his 7-3s and experiencing them from the bad side. Obviously a cage player will say hes braindead because the MU is heavily in Kenshi's favor. All the even/bad MUs are extremely hard to play at the highest level and their is only one who obviously has the skill to succeed which is Pigshi. Kenshi may be easy to use in heavily advantage MUs but people are leaving out some of the MUs he has to work for.

weren't you saying the exact opposite of this a couple months back?

 

[Somberness]

As has been previously mentioned/proven in the thread, Foxy's statement is inaccurate. The tele itself is obviously punishable before the player gets to delay the 3, and it's still punishable after he delays the 3 if he chooses to automatically go for a block string like 99.9% of Lao players do because they think it gives them a free block string when it really doesn't (I'm often guilty of doing that as well, because it goes unpunished so many times). In theory, it is full combo punishable but that is somewhat hard in a real match, but there's no reason why it shouldn't be stopped with a D1 or uppercut.

Whew. I was afraid there for a moment. I simply refused to play Laos that I couldn't d1~pressure after this calling it lag. I wasn't ignorant after all then. It -is- lag if I can't d1 it. Thanks mate.

They do get a free block string off a delayed kick, the cancel advantage kicks in.

 

[coolwhip]

They do get a free block string off a delayed kick, the cancel advantage kicks in.

Whoa, this is confusing as hell. Not that I can doubt you, but:

People interrupt with D1 all the time. Pig was doing it to Tom in the video they've posted, and I've been playing Lao for a year now under the premise that it CAN be interrupted and has been interrupted numerous times.

In fact, someone just demonstrated how you can interrupt it with Smoke and linked a video to it in this very thread. I'm pretty sure UsedForGlue has talked about how it can be interrupted for a while now as well.

Hopefully the confusion can be clarified, and thanks for the input.

 

[GLoRToR]

Somberness
Tom Brady
UsedForGlue
coolwhip

This is something that we need to discuss because I'm feeling more annoyed if it's true that Lao can just teleport, kick and then hit you for free without being able to do anything about it.
What's the truth? Punishable? Not? If yes, how?

 

[LaR]

Whoa, this is confusing as hell. Not that I can doubt you, but:

People interrupt with D1 all the time. Pig was doing it to Tom in the video they've posted, and I've been playing Lao for a year now under the premise that it CAN be interrupted and has been interrupted numerous times.

In fact, someone just demonstrated how you can interrupt it with Smoke and linked a video to it in this very thread. I'm pretty sure UsedForGlue has talked about how it can be interrupted for a while now as well.

Hopefully the confusion can be clarified, and thanks for the input.

You can interrupt the delayed tele 3 into 11 and 21 if you block the tele 3 crouching it only jails when blocked standing

 

[coolwhip]

You can interrupt the delayed tele 3 into 11 and 21 if you block the tele 3 crouching it only jails when blocked standing

Thank you. Makes more sense now.

 

[coolwhip]

Somberness
Tom Brady
UsedForGlue
coolwhip

This is something that we need to discuss because I'm feeling more annoyed if it's true that Lao can just teleport, kick and then hit you for free without being able to do anything about it.
What's the truth? Punishable? Not? If yes, how?

LaR just clarified it.

Also, to be clear, Kung Lao does not get a free blockstring off of a blocked instant tele 3 (it's neutral on block). And of course, teleport is fully combo punishable before Lao ever gets to kick you anyway.

So Lao can definitely not teleport, kick and then hit you for free without being able to do anything about it. Even delaying the kick has its risks since you can full combo punish him before he gets the chance to hit you.

 

[Somberness]

Whoa, this is confusing as hell. Not that I can doubt you, but:

People interrupt with D1 all the time. Pig was doing it to Tom in the video they've posted, and I've been playing Lao for a year now under the premise that it CAN be interrupted and has been interrupted numerous times.

In fact, someone just demonstrated how you can interrupt it with Smoke and linked a video to it in this very thread. I'm pretty sure UsedForGlue has talked about how it can be interrupted for a while now as well.

Hopefully the confusion can be clarified, and thanks for the input.

If it's done low enough that you can link a either 1, 2, 3, or 4 off of it, then the cancel advantage will take effect.

You can interrupt the delayed tele 3 into 11 and 21 if you block the tele 3 crouching it only jails when blocked standing

The block stun it creates would still be the same, the only difference is that the chained move doesn't connect.

 

[coolwhip]

The block stun it creates would still be the same, the only difference is that the chained move doesn't connect.

Wouldn't that give the opponent the chance to D1 or uppercut, given that Lao's 1 or 2 will whiff?

 

[Somberness]

Wouldn't that give the opponent the chance to D1 or uppercut, given that Lao's 1 or 2 will whiff?

2,1 hits after 23 frames and 1,1 after 25 so yes.