General/Other - Hat Trick Kung Lao Hat Trick Variation General Discussion

[Tweedy]

Flame Fist Liu Kang might be a match up where Hat Trick actually does better than Tempest and Buzzsaw, with the nerfs to Tempest.

- The multi hitting, forward advancing spin, that Tempest lacks, blows up Flamefist WP mind games for free. This is so huge in this match up.

- In Buzzsaw the projectiles are kind of useless in a zoning battle. If you trade with a competent Flamefist who will activate his buff, you'll eat 10.5% I believe and only dish out 5%. If he jumps over your low hat, your hat is gone for three LEGIT seconds. Buzzsaw's projectiles imo should only be used to enhanced your neutral in match ups where Kung Lao might struggle there, not in match ups where the opponent is trying to zone you. You're better off with the 7% hat, despite it's recovery, TBH. Just my opinion.

- Being able to confirm everything into almost 40% for a bar is pretty dope.

Are there any other match ups, that Hat Trick might be favorable in now? I'm thinking maybe Crystalline Tremor, if his armor stays the same. Buzzsaw might do well there, though. idk

 

[Youphemism]

Flame Fist Liu Kang might be a match up where Hat Trick actually does better than Tempest and Buzzsaw, with the nerfs to Tempest.

- The multi hitting, forward advancing spin, that Tempest lacks, blows up Flamefist WP mind games for free. This is so huge in this match up.

- In Buzzsaw the projectiles are kind of useless in a zoning battle. If you trade with a competent Flamefist who will activate his buff, you'll eat 10.5% I believe and only dish out 5%. If he jumps over your low hat, your hat is gone for three LEGIT seconds. Buzzsaw's projectiles imo should only be used to enhanced your neutral in match ups where Kung Lao might struggle there, not in match ups where the opponent is trying to zone you. You're better off with the 7% hat, despite it's recovery, TBH. Just my opinion.

- Being able to confirm everything into almost 40% for a bar is pretty dope.

Are there any other match ups, that Hat Trick might be favorable in now? I'm thinking maybe Crystalline Tremor, if his armor stays the same. Buzzsaw might do well there, though. idk

Pretty sure it's been discussed that Grandmaster is a possible decent idea for Hat Trick, and with Cassie getting her flip nerfed in the beta Hat Trick will now have a safe hitconfirmable launcher in B22~hat trap against everybody in the cast except Reptile 'cause ex slide but that's not a big deal. So yeah maybe Cassie too, time will tell.

 

[Tweedy]

Pretty sure it's been discussed that Grandmaster is a possible decent idea for Hat Trick, and with Cassie getting her flip nerfed in the beta Hat Trick will now have a safe hitconfirmable launcher in B22~hat trap against everybody in the cast except Reptile 'cause ex slide but that's not a big deal. So yeah maybe Cassie too, time will tell.

Word, I've been using Buzzsaw in those match ups. Low hat controls the neutral well vs Grandmaster imo. I feel like Sub Zero can react and EX iceball any time I throw the hat in Tempest or Hat Trick. The recovery is insane.

And of course Cassie can't punish low hat for free anymore. That's so great.

Edit: Of course the hat toss isn't why you would use Tempest or Hat Trick. I just think that having a projectile with good recovery is a huge perk in the Grandmaster match up. Because of what I mentioned you're pretty much forced to go in as the other variations, in Buzzsaw you make Sub come to you.

 

[Youphemism]

Word, I've been using Buzzsaw in those match ups. Low hat controls the neutral well vs Grandmaster imo. I feel like Sub Zero can react and EX iceball any time I throw the hat in Tempest or Hat Trick. The recovery is insane.

And of course Cassie can't punish low hat for free anymore. That's so great.

Edit: Of course the hat toss isn't why you would use Tempest or Hat Trick. I just think that having a projectile with good recovery is a huge perk in the Grandmaster match up. Because of what I mentioned you're pretty much forced to go in as the other variations, in Buzzsaw you make Sub come to you.

Wait you were using Buzz Saw against Cassie??? Ewwww it's pretty much Tempest or nothing against her because of, as you mentioned, punishable low hat lol. But yeah now that flip is nerfed Buzz Saw is a more viable option too. Buzz Saw was always a good option against GM too yeah.

 

[Tweedy]

Wait you were using Buzz Saw against Cassie??? Ewwww it's pretty much Tempest or nothing against her because of, as you mentioned, punishable low hat lol. But yeah now that flip is nerfed Buzz Saw is a more viable option too. Buzz Saw was always a good option against GM too yeah.

I'm specifically referring to the beta, sorry.

Pre-beta I was a 100% Tempest main.

 

[Youphemism]

I'm specifically referring to the beta, sorry.

Pre-beta I was a 100% Tempest main.

Ooooh yeah right ok post-beta Buzz Saw vs Cassie is doable.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

I do play a lot of A-List vs Hat MU and unless I am letting block go I think Cage was able to punish my b22~hat toss with f3 somehow. I will look closer into that this weekend.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Flame Fist Liu Kang might be a match up where Hat Trick actually does better than Tempest and Buzzsaw, with the nerfs to Tempest.

- The multi hitting, forward advancing spin, that Tempest lacks, blows up Flamefist WP mind games for free. This is so huge in this match up.

- In Buzzsaw the projectiles are kind of useless in a zoning battle. If you trade with a competent Flamefist who will activate his buff, you'll eat 10.5% I believe and only dish out 5%. If he jumps over your low hat, your hat is gone for three LEGIT seconds. Buzzsaw's projectiles imo should only be used to enhanced your neutral in match ups where Kung Lao might struggle there, not in match ups where the opponent is trying to zone you. You're better off with the 7% hat, despite it's recovery, TBH. Just my opinion.

- Being able to confirm everything into almost 40% for a bar is pretty dope.

Are there any other match ups, that Hat Trick might be favorable in now? I'm thinking maybe Crystalline Tremor, if his armor stays the same. Buzzsaw might do well there, though. idk

Buzz Saw is more than just zoning and Lao is one of the hardest characters in the game to keep out anyway, even more so in this variation with the advancing Spin. His footsies and mix-up pressure game make him much better than Hat Trick in this match up IMO


As far as Hat Tricks match ups go, well there is definitely a lot of even match ups, I think some of his winning ones are Grandmaster (although not necessarily any more so than Tempest), and he rolls anyone who struggle with advancing and space control, especially Jacqui and Jason. I haven't put a lot of thought into his winning ones


P.S. Most things even with ex-Hatarang convert for 35%, and thats assuming you get the corner. The only thing that seems to hit closer to 40% is B32xxHatarang

 

[Tweedy]

Buzz Saw is more than just zoning and Lao is one of the hardest characters in the game to keep out anyway, even more so in this variation with the advancing Spin. His footsies and mix-up pressure game make him much better than Hat Trick in this match up IMO


As far as Hat Tricks match ups go, well there is definitely a lot of even match ups, I think some of his winning ones are Grandmaster (although not necessarily any more so than Tempest), and he rolls anyone who struggle with advancing and space control, especially Jacqui and Jason. I haven't put a lot of thought into his winning ones


P.S. Most things even with ex-Hatarang convert for 35%, and thats assuming you get the corner. The only thing that seems to hit closer to 40% is B32xxHatarang

I'd rather have an EX hatarang than Buzzsaw's mix up pressure game tbh. Unless you land a B22 EX low hat combo in the corner, the mix ups are only going to provide you with 5-10% damage.

Imo Buzzsaw is good in the match ups where the low hat dictates the neutral. Against Grandmaster you can poke at him with it, recovering too quickly for him to read you with an EX ice ball or a jump in. If he throws the klone you can instant air teleport on reaction, if you have the instant air down. That's kind of a general thing for Kung Lao I suppose. Overall, however, I like this match up because you don't have to go after Sub Zero. He has to play your game unless he can get you in the corner.

I also like using Buzzsaw vs Hellfire Scorpion(can't EX teleport on reaction to low hat, since it recovers so quickly, has troubling dealing with low hat otherwise), and Cassie Cage, especially Hollywood since EX nutpunch still ignores orbiting hat set ups.

Vs Flamefist there's not too much of a point in throwing the low hat, since you'll be trading with 7-10.5 percent projectiles. Imo the damage that Hat Trick can get off of any hit into EX hatarang, is much more useful than anything that Buzzsaw brings to the table here. The mix ups and pressure aren't very strong, unless someone absolutely doesn't know the match up. I'd rather respect staggers with the threat of a hat trap behind me, than a 5% low hat. Like I said before, unless they get hit by B22 in the corner, the best that you'll get off of his mix ups is 10%. Mortal Kombat X isn't a game where you can afford to be right several times. Most characters don't need to be right too many times to win.

Obviously Tempest brings more to the table than Hat Trick, but the multi hitting spin is so huge vs Flamefist, I cannot stress that enough. It blows up his WP mind games, for free.

Edit: Forgot to mention that D4 into flame aura is basically free vs Tempest, for Hellfire. Buzzsaw or Hat Trick blow it up with EX spin. I'm not even sure if D4 flame aura is a great tactic tbh, I don't play vs any great Scorpions. It is something that i'm seeing a lot of on the beta, and the Buzzsaw/Hat Trick spin destroy it.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I'd rather have an EX hatarang than Buzzsaw's mix up pressure game tbh. Unless you land a B22 EX low hat combo in the corner, the mix ups are only going to provide you with 5-10% damage.

Imo Buzzsaw is good in the match ups where the low hat dictates the neutral. Against Grandmaster you can poke at him with it, recovering too quickly for him to read you with an EX ice ball or a jump in. If he throws the klone you can instant air teleport on reaction, if you have the instant air down. That's kind of a general thing for Kung Lao I suppose. Overall, however, I like this match up because you don't have to go after Sub Zero. He has to play your game unless he can get you in the corner.

I also like using Buzzsaw vs Hellfire Scorpion(can't EX teleport on reaction to low hat, since it recovers so quickly, has troubling dealing with low hat otherwise), and Cassie Cage, especially Hollywood since EX nutpunch still ignores orbiting hat set ups.

Vs Flamefist there's not too much of a point in throwing the low hat, since you'll be trading with 7-10.5 percent projectiles. Imo the damage that Hat Trick can get off of any hit into EX hatarang, is much more useful than anything that Buzzsaw brings to the table here. The mix ups and pressure aren't very strong, unless someone absolutely doesn't know the match up. I'd rather respect staggers with the threat of a hat trap behind me, than a 5% low hat. Like I said before, unless they get hit by B22 in the corner, the best that you'll get off of his mix ups is 10%. Mortal Kombat X isn't a game where you can afford to be right several times. Most characters don't need to be right too many times to win.

Obviously Tempest brings more to the table than Hat Trick, but the multi hitting spin is so huge vs Flamefist, I cannot stress that enough. It blows up his WP mind games, for free.

Edit: Forgot to mention that D4 into flame aura is basically free vs Tempest, for Hellfire. Buzzsaw or Hat Trick blow it up with EX spin. I'm not even sure if D4 flame aura is a great tactic tbh, I don't play vs any great Scorpions. It is something that i'm seeing a lot of on the beta, and the Buzzsaw/Hat Trick spin destroy it.

You don't need to use it in a way you are always going to trade with a projectile, it has a lot of applications in footsies and LK's reach is nothing special. But even if you do trade, even assuming he's got Fists activated, it's still in your favor IMO, because you get a knockdown and you are playing Buzz Saw Lao.

I think you are underestimating his mix-up pressure, it's not necessarily going to open your opponent up into a combo (although with the range and fact that B2 is overhead, it's really not unlikely, you can hitconfirm the FIRST hit of B22 into ex-Spin midscreen if you didn't go for B2xxLow, and in the corner safely you can even safely convert off the second hit going through if they were expecting a low Hatwith Ex-Low Hat like you mentioned), its the fact that if they guess wrong, it either leaves them knocked-down or -16, and if they guess right you are safe, and have amazing armor to go with it. It's much harder to block consistently than many other 50/50's, and it's not fair to compare it to them anyway as it's so much easier to apply - he basically gets it everytime he hits a D4, and he has one of the best D4's in the game. I guess the fact that Hatarang converts even after trading with an iAFB is pretty cool though too just because stops him throwing them out midrange. At the very most, I'd say all 3 variations are equal in this match up.



I have a lot of match up experience against Tempest with Hellfire, but none against any other variation. I will say that I think you are probably right, Buzzsaw would give me a much harder time than Tempest. Theorycrafting, my play would have to revolve around TP'ing in as you throw a Hat but cancelling the TP and then mixing up with Throw and B12. I'd have to play it to know how this would go though.

D4xxAura is a great tactic btw, although it's still pretty risky to try punish a D4 like that, a good Hellfire player won't D4xxHellfire more than half the time. Definitely an advantage that Buzz Saw / Hat Trick has tho that Tempest doesn't in this MU

 

[The_Tile]

I was just curious, after playing Hat Trick for quite a while now what is everyone's primary means of opening people up? And how often do people use low hcb, cause I never actually use this move.

I use 112124 string exclusively for pressure, cancelling into hat throw at either 1, 11, 11212 or 112124 is a nasty mixup. Though it can probably be OS'd if you have a bar, you can just stagger at any point and punish any armor accordingly.

Then when the opponent starts to press buttons, F2xxHCB is great at catching counterpokes and converting them into big damage, into 21 KD into the same situation, in the corner anyway.

 

[Eddy Wang]

So ppl use hat trick as main now ?

You have to use low hcb as much as you can, a lot of ppl try to place traps on any pressure against anyone, the thing about hat trick is that you have to earn your momentum to apply pressure or mixups.

You have to stagger a lot to bait a whiff or a risk for a good punish, once the situation presents itself, you will be allowed to apply pressure right after you place your trap.


There is a trick though, hat trick has 3 top moves.
1. Hatarang which costs a bar, well used will trade and give you a combo post trade and give you the pressure situation

2. Ex hcb will let you apply more pressure, careful that standing 1 is a high, it requires some execution to run cancel into standing 11212 pressure right after on the right block stun

3. Ex spin, which will blow anything up when rightfully used.


However you can only cancel your strings into hat trap when you land hits.

Lao has no mixup without low trap on the screen, so the main game is either make them stand block so your pressure becomes consistent cause Lao hitbox sucks, or get a full combo when they stand block.

Every time they block ex hcb they are either forced to crouch block to avoid pressure which opens up for b2~hatarang, or stand block to avoid this, which opens to a free d4~hat trap, that will get you more free pressure, and more meter.


But hcb hit box is inconsistent in many characters, and might end up whiffing when you need them the most, this is why low hcb is much better, it travels straight into anyone hitbox, with the same block stun as regular hcb.

Don't get me wrong, I love hcb, it has its uses specially to trap characters trying to follow Lao into the air with the hat behind them, but low hcb has much better use other than free chip, it puts you in situation to try different things with conditioning

 

[Tweedy]

You don't need to use it in a way you are always going to trade with a projectile, it has a lot of applications in footsies and LK's reach is nothing special. But even if you do trade, even assuming he's got Fists activated, it's still in your favor IMO, because you get a knockdown and you are playing Buzz Saw Lao.

I think you are underestimating his mix-up pressure, it's not necessarily going to open your opponent up into a combo (although with the range and fact that B2 is overhead, it's really not unlikely, you can hitconfirm the FIRST hit of B22 into ex-Spin midscreen if you didn't go for B2xxLow, and in the corner safely you can even safely convert off the second hit going through if they were expecting a low Hatwith Ex-Low Hat like you mentioned), its the fact that if they guess wrong, it either leaves them knocked-down or -16, and if they guess right you are safe, and have amazing armor to go with it. It's much harder to block consistently than many other 50/50's, and it's not fair to compare it to them anyway as it's so much easier to apply - he basically gets it everytime he hits a D4, and he has one of the best D4's in the game. I guess the fact that Hatarang converts even after trading with an iAFB is pretty cool though too just because stops him throwing them out midrange. At the very most, I'd say all 3 variations are equal in this match up.



I have a lot of match up experience against Tempest with Hellfire, but none against any other variation. I will say that I think you are probably right, Buzzsaw would give me a much harder time than Tempest. Theorycrafting, my play would have to revolve around TP'ing in as you throw a Hat but cancelling the TP and then mixing up with Throw and B12. I'd have to play it to know how this would go though.

D4xxAura is a great tactic btw, although it's still pretty risky to try punish a D4 like that, a good Hellfire player won't D4xxHellfire more than half the time. Definitely an advantage that Buzz Saw / Hat Trick has tho that Tempest doesn't in this MU

How am I getting a knockdown with a trade? EX low hat? EX low hat is slow, easy to react to. Unless i'm doing a set up on knockdown, I doubt i'd ever land it.

Again, unless low hat is making a big difference from fullscreen or midscreen, i'd rather have hatarang. I think Buzzsaw's mix ups are better in theory than in reality. If you're wrong once you lose your turn, but more often than not you have to be right several times to win.

just my opinion

 

[Tweedy]

I was just curious, after playing Hat Trick for quite a while now what is everyone's primary means of opening people up? And how often do people use low hcb, cause I never actually use this move.

I use 112124 string exclusively for pressure, cancelling into hat throw at either 1, 11, 11212 or 112124 is a nasty mixup. Though it can probably be OS'd if you have a bar, you can just stagger at any point and punish any armor accordingly.

Then when the opponent starts to press buttons, F2xxHCB is great at catching counterpokes and converting them into big damage, into 21 KD into the same situation, in the corner anyway.

I've just been staggering 1, 11, 11212, b3, f2, etc. If I feel like they're going to stop blocking to stop my staggers, I just finish the string and spin or EX hatarang. This is obviously a lot easier in Tempest where you can confirm with regular orbiting hat.

Be careful with 112124. If whiffs on a lot of the cast if blocked correctly. Players are starting to make it whiff and full combo punish with armor.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

So ppl use hat trick as main now ?

I don't think they will. I think this attraction is caused by the Tempest nerff. Soon or later a lot of that will drop off as HatTrick is...well, we know what it takes to score some points. After playing a killer Wrestler Jax I barely use hat traps. It takes sometimes a whole round to build a situation where I would place 2-3 hat here and there in between block strings and knock downs and pull off some good damage. God, I thought Skarlet was real challenge!

 

[Eddy Wang]

How am I getting a knockdown with a trade? EX low hat? EX low hat is slow, easy to react to. Unless i'm doing a set up on knockdown, I doubt i'd ever land it.

Again, unless low hat is making a big difference from fullscreen or midscreen, i'd rather have hatarang. I think Buzzsaw's mix ups are better in theory than in reality. If you're wrong once you lose your turn, but more often than not you have to be right several times to win.

just my opinion

The opponent needs to be close to you and in order to condition them to block low trap, the hat trick bigger issue is that your traps are all momentary and momentum gaining tool, if you stop your pressure to get away from the opponent while you're hatless you risk a big chance of giving up on your pressure and get wide open on the screen.

Also, ending block strings with spin or hatarang is boldly risky, as much as ppl hate it, some strings into hat trap is still safe, it gives you time for a free back dash and regain your momentum afterwards, try it sometimes, you might get some good whiff punishes.

I don't think they will. I think this attraction is caused by the Tempest nerff. Soon or later a lot of that will drop off as HatTrick is...well, we know what it takes to score some points. After playing a killer Wrestler Jax I barely use hat traps. It takes sometimes a whole round to build a situation where I would place 2-3 hat here and there in between block strings and knock downs and pull off some good damage. God, I thought Skarlet was real challenge!

Skarlet was a challenge but, but she was really good with walk speed, neutral strings with push back, a bulk of armor, guaranteed pressure, massive chip damage and guaranteed otg on any knockdown, hat trick doesn't have any of those aside from a good normal and a 7frame spin heheh.

 

[Tweedy]

The opponent needs to be close to you and in order to condition them to block low trap, the hat trick bigger issue is that your traps are all momentary and momentum gaining tool, if you stop your pressure to get away from the opponent while you're hatless you risk a big chance of giving up on your pressure and get wide open on the screen.

Also, ending block strings with spin or hatarang is boldly risky, as much as ppl hate it, some strings into hat trap is still safe, it gives you time for a free back dash and regain your momentum afterwards, try it sometimes, you might get some good whiff punishes.



Skarlet was a challenge but, but she was really good with walk speed, neutral strings with push back, a bulk of armor, guaranteed pressure, massive chip damage and guaranteed otg on any knockdown, hat trick doesn't have any of those aside from a good normal and a 7frame spin heheh.

I've been able to hit confirm b321 and 112124 into spin or hatarang in the corner.

Tbh I just started using this variation and haven't been using the traps lol. Just hatarang into staggered pressure. Maybe I should check Hand's guide.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

I just finished an hour session with a friend of mine who mains Jax Wrestler.

Jesus, this character is simply moving forward like a fucking Tank. He dose not need to jump, not even once. At close combat there is just so much to worry about from him. It's really hard to deal with his pressure and punishing his specials on reaction. I feel that his pokes , normals and strings are much weaker. Next time we will get some footage and I wanna see what You guys think about this MU. I have no idea how to counter that forward advancing punches - insane.

 

[Tweedy]

I just finished an hour session with a friend of mine who mains Jax Wrestler.

Jesus, this character is simply moving forward like a fucking Tank. He dose not need to jump, not even once. At close combat there is just so much to worry about from him. It's really hard to deal with his pressure and punishing his specials on reaction. I feel that his pokes , normals and strings are much weaker. Next time we will get some footage and I wanna see what You guys think about this MU. I have no idea how to counter that forward advancing punches - insane.

Jax beats all variations of Lao on the beta imo. It's probably his worst match up. A lot of people thought that Wrestler beat Tempest before the beta nerfs.

 

[Youphemism]

I do play a lot of A-List vs Hat MU and unless I am letting block go I think Cage was able to punish my b22~hat toss with f3 somehow. I will look closer into that this weekend.

Hat toss? If you mean hat trap, DF2, then he couldn't have and you must have not been blocking since B22~hat trap is only -6. If you mean BF2 then he probably did punish.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Hat toss? If you mean hat trap, DF2, then he couldn't have and you must have not been blocking since B22~hat trap is only -6. If you mean BF2 then he probably did punish.

Sorry about my creppy terminology. Yeah, I meant hat trap. Then perhaps I was retarded at that moment.

 

[The_Tile]

I've been able to hit confirm b321 and 112124 into spin or hatarang in the corner.

Tbh I just started using this variation and haven't been using the traps lol. Just hatarang into staggered pressure. Maybe I should check Hand's guide.

You really need to end strings in hat trap more, especially in the corner. Midscreen whenever I throw out the 11 string I either hit confirm 11212xxSpin or do 112124xxHatTrap on block. The latter is completely safe against everything and most people try and poke after it, which completely ends their turn and leaves you in a great position with the hat out and usually a lot of meter, as hat trick builds meter pretty well.

I never thought hat trick was bad anyway, and now the top tiers are getting castrated Hat Trick is a genuine threat right now. He's obviously not number 1 and he has his problems, but he's a great character and he's definitely more than viable.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I've been able to hit confirm b321 and 112124 into spin or hatarang in the corner.

Tbh I just started using this variation and haven't been using the traps lol. Just hatarang into staggered pressure. Maybe I should check Hand's guide.

You can confirm midscreen you confirm off 11212, on hit go into spin, on block go into 4~Hat Trap or whatever

My guide might be a little outdated, probably skips out on a lot of tech, but the core of the character is still accurate I believe although some of my opinions have changed a little on him as my knowledge of the games grows

 

[Santa_Destroyer]

Hey my hat hombres.
I recently started to pick up hattrick, mainly because of the awesome thread I GOT HANDS made (^ that guy above)
and also because of swag.

I've played a friend oh mine, wich mains F/T ruthless, and he just bodies me.
I mean I get some games for sure, but he pokes out, or safely armors out and of course njp's me to death.
he can avoid my hat projectile by throwing ferra an just d1 my teleport.


Pls haalp

have a good one.

 

[just_2swift]

Hey my hat hombres.
I recently started to pick up hattrick, mainly because of the awesome thread I GOT HANDS made (^ that guy above)
and also because of swag.

I've played a friend oh mine, wich mains F/T ruthless, and he just bodies me.
I mean I get some games for sure, but he pokes out, or safely armors out and of course njp's me to death.
he can avoid my hat projectile by throwing ferra an just d1 my teleport.


Pls haalp

have a good one.

Buzz saw is a more favorable in that mu imo.