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KP2 Balance Patch Wishlist

Arqwart

Flawless block reversal me, daddy
NRS confirmed a patch is coming with the November release of KP2. Everyone's thinking about it. Everyone's got their own lists. Are you team Delete Jacqui 2020? Are you team Truth and Light Raiden as S+++ Tier 2020?

What balance changes do you desire from the patch that will be coming with the KP2 release?

General Changes

Fatal Blows:
one and done when used in a round. If it misses or is blocked, it won't come back until the next round. If canceled (Johnny/Joker), it will still return but will have a longer cooldown of 15s instead of 10s.
Krushing Blows: bleed from KBs can now kill. All abysmally useless KB requirements (e.g. Cetrion Geyser and Johnny Camera) reworked.
Variations: meme-tier / pointless variations buffed to viability. This should bring a good 18+ variations into the viable pool.
Armor Breakers: any armor breaker that does not have a KB tied to it and doesn't allow for a combo after now has a large damage boost.

Specific Changes:
Geras
Base
Aerial Normals:
hurtbox slightly increased across the board

Jacqui
Base
Kranked (11) block:
+2f -> -4f
Bionic Dash (BF2) block: -7f -> -15f
Aerial Normals: hurtbox slightly increased across the board

Upgraded (V3)
(Air) Shrapnel Blast (DB1):
combo damage scaling slightly increased

Kabal
Base
Extermination Squad (B12D2) startup:
17f -> 24f (now has a flawless blockable gap, removing the pushback and making it negative)
Extermination Squad (B12D2) block: -4f -> +4f
Extermination Squad (B12D2) flawless block: -4f -> -11f

Liu Kang
Base
Silent Chop (B1) startup:
9f -> 7f
Silent Chop (B1): Mid -> High

Luohan Quan (V1)
Low Fireball (DB1) amplified block: -7f -> -11f

Joker
Base
CCDDEGEC (BF4):
no longer has pushback on block when the projectile falls
Show's Over (F212) startup: 21f -> 24f (now has a flawless blockable gap, removing the pushback and making it negative)
Show's over (F212) block: -11f -> +4f

Cetrion
Base
Natural Barrier (DB1) hit advantage:
15f -> 10f (unamplified and amplified)
Hell's Wrath (DF1) hit advantage: 3f lower on all versions in all situations

D'Vorah
Base
Killer Strike (F2) startup:
19f -> 16f
Yellow Jacket (12): special cancels earlier, comboing into Window's Kiss (Arachnophobia) and amplified Ground Swarm

Buzzed (V1)
(Air) Ticking Time Bug (BF1) unamplified recovery:
70f -> 30f recovery
Tsetse (F22D1+3): hit box adjusted to no longer whiff crouching opponents

Kreepy Krawler (V3)
Bombardier Beetle (DF3) unamplified arming time:
60f -> 30f arming time
Fly By (BF3) minimum distance: 3 character lengths -> 1 character length
Fly By (BF3) cancel recovery: ?f -> 0f
Fly By (BF3): D'Vorah is no longer considered ascending for the first few frames after canceling Fly By. She is now immediately considered descending so all aerial attacks out of Fly By are overheads
Flippin' Out (DB4): renamed to Ketipo Slam

Skarlet
Base
Scythe Slam (B2) startup:
22f -> 20f
Scythe Slam (B2) KB: 100 damage bleed added after initial hit, totaling 280 damage

Heart Pierce (V1)
Blood Ritual (DBF1):
max length reduced from 4s to 2s
Blood Ritual (DBF1): now heals Skarlet for the damage dealt to both players if she finishes the full duration

Blood Drive (V2)
Blood Ball (DB2) amplified:
now larger than regular Blood Ball and a Mid
Cell Siphon (BF4) recovery: 77f -> 40f
Cell Siphon (BF4) active: 3f -> 10f
Cell Siphon (BF4): hitbox now extends as far as the graphic
Cell Siphon (BF4): graphic now dissipates at the end of the 10 active frames

Hemorrhage (V3)
Boiling Point (BF4) startup:
22f -> 17f
Boiling Point (BF4) active: 3f -> 8f

Jade
Base
Pole Slam (F2):
now hits across the entire arc, not just when it gets past Jade's head
Pole Strike (B1) startup: 15f -> 12f
Teaser (B12) startup: 21f -> 16f
Razor-rang (BF1) amplified: High -> Mid
Razor-rang (BF1) amplified startup: 23f -> 20f (now jails on block with no flawless block gap)
Razor-rang (BF1) amplified block: +7f -> -5f

Emerald Defender (V1)
Edenian Spark (DB3):
now has an amplification. Amplified Edenian Spark sends a second wave full screen that's a Mid wall (See: IJ2 Captain Cold's amplified ice wall).
Edenian Spark (DB3) amplified info: Mid, 60 damage, 16f startup, -11f on block, 30f recovery, slight pushback on block (removed when flawless'd), large knockback on hit (see: Sonya's amplified ring).
Edenian Spark (DB3) amplified: Krushing Blow if it hits after the first wave hits. Deals increased damage based on distance (160 - 280, totaling 220 - 340 with first wave's damage included).

Untamable (V3)
Vanishing Winds (DB3) amplified startup:
22f -> 18f
 
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Metin

White Ramses
Base
Extermination Squad (B12D2) startup:
17f -> 24f (now has a flawless blockable gap, removing the pushback and making it negative)
Extermination Squad (B12D2) block: -4f -> +4f
Extermination Squad (B12D2) flawless block: -4f -> -11f
No it should have 128f startup and -645 on block. That is not fair.
 
  • Every poke is at least +13 on hit, unless you're a 9f mid character, then you can eat shit and try to jail off 1 or 2 frames.
  • Pushback on blocked fatal blows removed
  • practical armor breakers on every variation, or unpractical armor breakers on every variation and breakaway results in a hard knockdown.
  • j3s nerfed. Either downward hitbox or active frames
Otherwise I just want hit and hurtbox issues fixed and a WIFI/connection filter for ranked. Want to be able to play people with a max ping of 100ms on wired only. At the very least you should be able to filter out WIFI and the ping threshold for denying a game should be lowered to 120ms, since every ping preview ends up 20-30ms higher ingame anyways.
 
I think Sonya is fine for the most part. If her f2 hits mid and they do something about her armor breaker, then anything else is a plus for me.

Also a look at the strings off b2? She's got some major gaps there and you can get poked out of them. Maybe that needs to be looked at.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
Generally:
Reduce the pushback of fatalblows.
Make pokes more minus but more plus on hit.
Rework KB's and FB gaps across the board.

Kitana:
B1 13F-> 11F
S2 13F -> 10F
Booty is now base.
Faster backdash.
 

Arqwart

Flawless block reversal me, daddy
BF4....sorry, had to fix that :coffee:
You'd think since I was literally in the lab screwing with things to get names, inputs, data, and issues (and the fact that I play her semi-regularly), I'd have gotten that right.

I can brain good. It's been fixed.

Kp2 balance wishlist: for it to be fucking huge, to know what will it be like, and to have a peek at it before like a week from kp2 release
Considering the light touch method NRS has been using, I doubt we'll be seeing a "fucking huge" patch akin to the MKX days. Even completely disregarding global system changes (Fatal Blows, pokes, KBs, etc.), I really REALLY also want it to be fucking huge with some light touches across the baseline kits of many characters, that 18+ predominantly unviable variation listing I mentioned, and the top tier variations of the top tiers. Specific character / variation balance alone, if given the proper care, could simultaneously even the playing field and add a long list of unplayed variations into the mix for players to all figure out.

Yeah, god forbids Kabal has to play the same game as other characters. Lol
This is exactly why I tossed in that seemingly random change. The fact that he has 0 flawless-blockable gaps and 100% safe strings has always bugged me. Compare that to the likes of Skarlet who has almost entirely safe strings, but basically all of them are flawless-blockable. Inconsistent design and dumb.
 
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Turning amp blood ball into a mid would make Blood Drive Skarlet so busted lmao let’s do it

Also, pokes should have more hit advantage, you shouldn’t be able to flawless block when you’re in hit stun, and buff Johnny
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
  1. D2 made unsafe on block
  2. Fix hitboxes/hurtboxes so that D1/D3 can reliably jail into S1 on hit for all characters against the entire cast
  3. If a character has a string that's supposed to work as a pressure string, make sure it can actually do that and not whiff
There just seems to be too many instances in the game of a string, special move, or normal that's intended to do something, but it can't reliably do the thing it was designed to do. Fixing that would go a long way to help making the game feel more polished and fundamentally sound.
 
Add -5 to all fatal blows on block.
Flawless block attacks on airborne opponents should lift higher to guarantee combo.
In general I don't agree with 'every character should have ...' but fuck it, every character should have viable u2.

Jacqui
Reduce hitbox of j2.
Add more scaling in combos with shrapnel.
Maybe adjust framedata a bit.

Liu
Remove one throw KB.

Cetrion
Agree with OP: Natural Barrier (DB1) hit advantage: 15f -> 10f (unamplified and amplified)
 

craftycheese

I tried to throw a yo-yo away. It was impossible.
Maybe just make the fatal blows regen time longer or maybe deplete all you're resources. I don't agree with them being one and done. They're also punishable enough. Like, if I'm absolutely not ready for one or am unsure of what to punish with given my range and not being ready, kanoball will punish for a majority of FBs unless I block a ranged one at near full or full screen. Just take the time to figure it out.

I would mainly just want the hit/hurtboxes to be fixed. And maybe some characters low pokes to be adjusted. For example, I would like kano's d1 to actually jail on hit, it's kinda hit or miss right now, same with the f1, 2.

Also, kano's spit to be the deadliest move in the game given the time we're living in now.

Edit:
Get rid of some of the wakeup options, for example the different get up timings, or reduce or get rid of the invicible frames for just getting up.
 
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Demon_0

Shao Kahn is back!
- Flawless block launchers shouldn't take so much meter. Just make it take 1 defensive bar.

- As some said, no pushback on blocked FB's and make them more unsafe on block.

- Reduce the invincibility frames on wake up after being knocked down so people can't just fucking jump out of pressure for free.

- Get rid of the DELAYED WAKEUP option after having used BREAKAWAY.

- Fix those damn hitboxes you haven't fixed since launch (e.g. Liu's f4 hitting behind him).

- Make Sub's b1 a mid.

- Make Jade's air glaves recovery -250 after she hits the floor.

Just to name a few.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
- Flawless block launchers shouldn't take so much meter. Just make it take 1 defensive bar.

- As some said, no pushback on blocked FB's and make them more unsafe on block.

- Reduce the invincibility frames on wake up after being knocked down so people can't just fucking jump out of pressure for free.

- Get rid of the DELAYED WAKEUP option after having used BREAKAWAY.

- Fix those damn hitboxes you haven't fixed since launch (e.g. Liu's f4 hitting behind him).

- Make Sub's b1 a mid.

- Make Jade's air glaves recovery -250 after she hits the floor.

Just to name a few.
So you wanna buff scrubzero but nerf Jade? Lol ok
 
Jax

-f2 d4 on hit causes less distance gap on knockdown.
-gotcha grab -9 from -17 on block.
-12 +2 on block from +1
-f4 +3 on block from +1
-f42 is now a mid from a high but is now unsafe on block. (suggestion : could be meeter burn for a launcher but also unsafe)
-give back the frames requirements on Quadgrab KB to be less strict
-jax can now special cancel from b32
 
  1. D2 made unsafe on block
  2. Fix hitboxes/hurtboxes so that D1/D3 can reliably jail into S1 on hit for all characters against the entire cast
  3. If a character has a string that's supposed to work as a pressure string, make sure it can actually do that and not whiff
There just seems to be too many instances in the game of a string, special move, or normal that's intended to do something, but it can't reliably do the thing it was designed to do. Fixing that would go a long way to help making the game feel more polished and fundamentally sound.
THIS! Specially #2 & #3 because those are my main gripes with this game. A fix to buffer consistently a pressure string when you're plus is a must IMO. The 1f-2f window to do that is insane, you must be a jedi to land that, honestly.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
My balance changes would have people rolling their eyes yet I've consistently predicted the changes that NRS has done, especially for my main.

Please NRS, give Kitana a backdash. That's all I want.


So with that said, I'm going to say the main change I want to breakaway:

You can only breakaway when you are airborne and not being juggled by the opponent. Meaning, if you do not breakaway at a certain point in the combo, you can not breakaway. This will make armor breaks 100% read based and take away the option to breakaway on reaction to a combo. If you do not breakaway at the start of the combo, you eat ALL the damage. If you do breakaway immediately, then you're at the mercy of your opponent guessing the break or not.