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Kotal Kahn General Discussion

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
September Patch Notes: (Note the general frame changes towards the bottom)

· Kotal Kahn - Added the Kompetitive Mode preset "Buluc" which has the following Abilities - Grand Discus (1), Amocualli Totem (1), and Teoyohtica Totem (1)

· Kotal Kahn - Huehhueyi Amplified can now be directed forward

· Kotal Kahn - Yeyecame Disk hit region increased, Krushing Blow range requirement lowered

· Kotal Kahn - The first hit of Yeyecame Disk Amplified now has 26 startup frames (was 28), had its hit region increased, its air hit reaction changed, and its blockstun increased by 10 frames with pushback increased

· Kotal Kahn - The second hit of Yeyecame Disk Amplified is now a mid, has its hit region increased, hit reaction changed, blockstun increased by 5 frames with greatly increased pushback, and recovers 6 frames faster

· Kotal Kahn - Yeyecame Disk Amplified can now cause a Krushing Blow

· Kotal Kahn - Fixed an issue with totems that could cause 3 single totems to provide a larger buff then 3 stacked totems

· Kotal Kahn - Fixed an issue with his Sword playing an incorrect animation when he is hit during Finish Him

· Kotal Kahn - Fix for visual issue with God Ray not fading out correctly in certain rare circumstances

· Kotal Kahn - Fixed an issue with Yeyecame Disk being unable to execute the Krushing Blow for the rest of the match if interrupted in a specific situation

· Kotal Kahn - Fixed a rare audio issue with Yeyecame Disk Krushing Blow

· Kotal Kahn - Tonatiuh Burst is no longer considered a projectile

· Kotal Kahn - Tlamanalo (Front Punch, Back Punch) is now -6 on block (down from -1)

· Kotal Kahn - Soleil (Front Punch, Back Punch) is now +1 on block (up from -6) with a 6f startup block gap
EDIT: This is actually 122, not 12

· Kotal Kahn - Royal Backhand (Towards + Front Punch) now has 10 startup frames (down from 11) and is +6 on hit (up from +1)

· Kotal Kahn - Tenchalli Bash (Towards + Front Punch, Back Punch) is now +8 on hit (up from -1)

· Kotal Kahn - Coatl Strikes (Back Punch, Back Punch, Front Punch) is now -13 on block (down from -7) and has a different hit reaction with 5 more frames of hit advantage

· Kotal Kahn - Blade Push (Towards + Back Punch) now has 19 startup frames (down from 22)

Some better overall frames and his launching string now will combo midscreen.
 
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Slymind

Noob
Since im on PC i do not have access to the patch yet, but, does amplified Yeyecame disk hits twice? i'm out of the loop concerning this move.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Since im on PC i do not have access to the patch yet, but, does amplified Yeyecame disk hits twice? i'm out of the loop concerning this move.
Yes, up close and then it throws the disc which is a mid on amplify. It's -1 on block but will create a gap before the first hit. Think Blood God without the corner combos and plus frames.
 

ColdSpine

"I wore those colors before you"
Hows Kotal boys?

he is one of the most characters i was excited about before release

Best variation?
 
Kotal's up to midtier.

Ascension is the best variation - so much damage, better tick command grab now, get buffed from doing damage, makes your tattoos glow. Main weakness is that a breakaway during bnb combo leaves you open to punish, so you have to expect those and not go for command grab if they have the bar

The new Buluc has the most potential - if you can stack the totems the numbers get ridiculous, but it sucks if the opponent is pressuring you too much to get those out, because you have no other tools. A recent change made dropping random lv1 totems not stack, so it's all about getting two totems stacked (and dreading how every KB and FB erases them)

Totemic feels the weakest, but kind of always performs at baseline - kitty does more damage than unbuffed Buluc, deals with Cetrion well, divekick is an extra option to punish whiffs, has the most reason to use sunlight (seeing how Ascension has the awful god ray, and Buluc would rather stack totems)
 
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Worth noting is that, within a combo, Ascension now has the most corner carry (with MB forwards grab), though Totemic isn't far behind (and doesn't need meter for the carry). Just something I found an interesting side effect of the grab change.
 
Thoughts on Totemic vs the new Totem variation?

I'm torn between giving up kitty cat and having much better totems.

In any case Ascension is crazy now. I've got whiplash having to go from Ascencion to Totemic to Ascension in the span of two patches.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Royal Contributor
Thoughts on Totemic vs the new Totem variation?

I'm torn between giving up kitty cat and having much better totems.

In any case Ascension is crazy now. I've got whiplash having to go from Ascencion to Totemic to Ascension in the span of two patches.
I'm yet to play with the new patch but it seems Totemic is now just better in limited MUs like Cetrion. The other 2 seem much better in general.
 

Slymind

Noob
Before the last patch i really thought totemic was the leading variation, now i think Ascencion and Buluc will be the go to and totemic is more situational, namely Cetrion, Jade and Skarlet matchups. All in all i think Kotal has 3 legit variations. I just wished the lifesteal totem startup was a bit faster, along with the base sun ray, to help totemic do it's healings better.
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
Thoughts on Totemic vs the new Totem variation?

I'm torn between giving up kitty cat and having much better totems.

In any case Ascension is crazy now. I've got whiplash having to go from Ascencion to Totemic to Ascension in the span of two patches.
I think it's largely going to come down to personal play style actually. For example, there are certain matches where you're very likely going to want to go Totemic, like Cetrion as people have said, and then there are matches like Scorpion where you're almost never going to safe totem/sun/run away with Cat, so you'll likely want to go Ascension. As for most of the others though? I think it'll be about how you prefer to play. Do you like damage and unsafe mixups? Ascension. Do you like a slow build, unbreakable damage, and being unkillable? Buluc. Do you like movement and oki? Totemic. And obviously there's overlap between these. For example, Ascension has good oki if you don't MB the command grab and Totemic can get good life back, etc., but at the core, for most MU that will be 5-5 for most variations, it will be about playing the style that is comfortable to you. That's my take anyway.
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
Before the last patch i really thought totemic was the leading variation, now i think Ascencion and Buluc will be the go to and totemic is more situational, namely Cetrion, Jade and Skarlet matchups. All in all i think Kotal has 3 legit variations. I just wished the lifesteal totem startup was a bit faster, along with the base sun ray, to help totemic do it's healings better.
I hear that Sly--faster Blood Totem was the main thing I was hoping for. The buffs don't affect Totemic too much imo. Though, having 221 as a max damage punish midscreen once you've already used your F122 KB will nice once I can hit the darn thing consistently, lol.
 

DoctorSexual

XBL: DoctorSexual PSN: Osh-Tek
If Kahn cut into F122 was easier and more consistent to land I still just cant see how either of his other 2 variations would ever even be considered in most normal circumstances.

To be able to get near fatal blow damage for free off of a (now what 19 frame?) mid whiff punish with the range that F2 has is just too much to leave on the table. Especially when you add in the new ability to choose sides. I mean damn. I know breakers throw a wrench into things but if you have a good footsie game its really easy to connect with F2 consistently.

That combo im talking about wins your a round with 3 whiff punishes.

Maybe its just me being bad and its not that hard to land but if Kahn cut into F122 was guaranteed can someone explain to me how command grab variation isn't order of magnitude superior still.
 
If Kahn cut into F122 was easier and more consistent to land I still just cant see how either of his other 2 variations would ever even be considered in most normal circumstances.

To be able to get near fatal blow damage for free off of a (now what 19 frame?) mid whiff punish with the range that F2 has is just too much to leave on the table. Especially when you add in the new ability to choose sides. I mean damn. I know breakers throw a wrench into things but if you have a good footsie game its really easy to connect with F2 consistently.

That combo im talking about wins your a round with 3 whiff punishes.

Maybe its just me being bad and its not that hard to land but if Kahn cut into F122 was guaranteed can someone explain to me how command grab variation isn't order of magnitude superior still.
It's pretty much just adding up all the extra damage you get from damage totems (not just combos but every 16.5% throw, sweep, f34, f4 etc) and deciding that's more valuable. Same as any other variation which gives up combo potential for more damage opportunities elsewhere.

What makes Ascension good imo is the command grab. I'll take damage totem over Khan Cut all day. If I'm playing Ascension it's because I want dat tick throw.
 

Blade4693

VIVIVI
Messed around with Buluc today. I love the idea and it can be nasty if you manage to get your totems out and even more insane if you have ex ray tracking them too but it still feels like actually getting those to come out without getting bodied for it is tough.
 
Well its my 2nd day back on the game and playing against Johnny Cages Outtake variation was an uphill battle. A fast, mid hitting projectile that cant be low profiled after 3/4 to full screen was annoying.

D3 and D4 was effective closer up and prevents Cage from advancing. Yeah you can parry from full screen but it still has pushback and wave dashing had me eating quite a few fireballs. I was using Buluc variation but for the life of me I cant understand why Kotals disc didnt remain a mid from MKX. Especially with how slow it is smh.

Projectile trades (when applicable) lead to knockdowns but the recovery time from the defense total guarantees you'll eat another. Might get "easier" once i get back into the game and up my reaction speed again.

Will upload my match footage (all those L's) against Kinetic_Orochi once it finishes.

 
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Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
If Kahn cut into F122 was easier and more consistent to land I still just cant see how either of his other 2 variations would ever even be considered in most normal circumstances.

To be able to get near fatal blow damage for free off of a (now what 19 frame?) mid whiff punish with the range that F2 has is just too much to leave on the table. Especially when you add in the new ability to choose sides. I mean damn. I know breakers throw a wrench into things but if you have a good footsie game its really easy to connect with F2 consistently.

That combo im talking about wins your a round with 3 whiff punishes.

Maybe its just me being bad and its not that hard to land but if Kahn cut into F122 was guaranteed can someone explain to me how command grab variation isn't order of magnitude superior still.
Depends on MU and how you want to play. Personally, I prefer movement over damage, so despite the Ascension buffs I'll be sticking with Totemic because it's a better fit for my play style.
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
Yeah, Blade, getting used to Buluc's gameplan takes time, as you're playing a mini game within the overall match.

Speaking of, GetEmStretch, two days back and playing a brand new variation and already saying that Kotal sucks? Seems a rather quick judgement, my friend.