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Kotal Kahn General Discussion

fluffybunbunkittens

fluffybunbunkittens

Apprentice
Yeah, the delay on kitties becoming projectile invulnerable (when amplified) is frustrating. You need to predict projectiles, which is not the safest route.
 
Jeffrey Wolf

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
Yup, that's why it's best to use against slower projectiles with longer recovery like Jade, Sub, Nightwolf, etc. That or use it against characters who can't full combo punish MB Kat so you get medium reward for low risk.
 
fluffybunbunkittens

fluffybunbunkittens

Apprentice
Buluc's amped disc is amazing for safety, until people start flawless blocking it, and its totems are amazing, until you cannot get them out / lose them to a random KB.

Ascension has no such faults, does more damage right out of the gate, getting buffed is part of your regular strings (instead of requiring setup) and you have a mid in the command grab.
 
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fluffybunbunkittens

fluffybunbunkittens

Apprentice
Totemic is alright, but it's the weakest variation (least damage potential in exchange for mobility). As such, it's the variation that IMO most needs to practise the more awkward links (b22 into dash 34 kitty, 221 into dash f12 kitty). It can totally shut down Cetrion's zoning, but that's a special case.

The ground kitty comes out so slow, that you basically have to predict the opponent is going to shoot, and it is NOT safe vs the majority of the cast (people with 7f jabs can get a combo off on you, but not Cetrion). Air kitty is a divekick and as such it can never be bad, but Kotal drags his feet when jumping, so there's an anti-synergy there. Oh, and its totem sucks.

On a positive note, the ground kitty leaves you at the perfect distance to continue pressure after hitting, and you can make people hesitant about spamming projectiles, and you never have to switch into another variation to handle a bad matchup (because everything's same-ish to you).
 
MeSoFoolish

MeSoFoolish

Noob
@Zhidoreptiloid

I play exclusively Totemic. For me he shines in a few things Buluc and Ascension don't have:

OKI out of cat.
Like the post above me already said: You are in the perfect range for a F2/F24 midi or a Slam if you end combo's in cat (+25 hit adv.). I have games where i can loop F24-cat for a whole life bar just because they don't know they have to respect it. They think they can press buttons because cat leaves you half-screen, but F2(19 start-up) has an amazing range. If they start to respect it there are over a dozen ways to mix your OKI after your F2 midi.

Anti zoning.
Amplified ground-cat goes through/under single and multi-hitting projectile moves, without losing damage. Yes the startup is slow. But if they wanna zone you fullscreen, and yes they will, you have plenty of time between the first ducked/blocked projectile and the second one.

Beam on yourself
You can use the beam to end corner combo's with, finish out rounds and to help yourself in a zoning battle. The fun thing is that people usually expect you to stay in the sun. So they come to you, because they dont want you to stand in it. A hard read ground or air cat/F2/slam can get them off-guard sometimes.

Cat is a save ender vs small & medium hitboxes if they crouchblock.
The cat will whiff after the first hit on block vs the majority of the cast. This is devastating in the corner but midscreen it is better then being -7 and losing a bar.

Corner escape with Air-cat.
Self explanatory

Check out Kotal's Video Thread here for some gameplay. @Jeffrey Wolf and I have quite some Totemic footage from the latest patch. Also Jeffreys Youtube channel has a great Totemic guide.

@fluffybunbunkittens
fluffybunbunkittens said:
and you never have to switch into another variation to handle a bad matchup (because everything's same-ish to you).
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Can you explain what you say here? Do you mean all Kotals variations have the same MU?
 
fluffybunbunkittens

fluffybunbunkittens

Apprentice
Good reminder about kitty hopping over most crouchblockers.
MeSoFoolish said:
Can you explain what you say here? Do you mean all Kotals variations have the same MU?
Click to expand...
Other variations might want to switch to Totemic as a counterpick vs certain characters, but a Totemic main never has to switch away to handle a specific matchup (you're just operating at less damage).
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
fluffybunbunkittens said:
Good reminder about kitty hopping over most crouchblockers.


Other variations might want to switch to Totemic as a counterpick vs certain characters, but a Totemic main never has to switch away to handle a specific matchup (you're just operating at less damage).
Click to expand...
Nobody ever "has" to switch with that logic.

Totemic has several 4-6s, more than the other variations.

And in any variation where you use blood totem even once, I'd say you'd 200% rather have buluc.
 
Slymind

Slymind

Warrior
Qwark28 said:
Nobody ever "has" to switch with that logic.

Totemic has several 4-6s, more than the other variations.

And in any variation where you use blood totem even once, I'd say you'd 200% rather have buluc.
Click to expand...
Thats my main issue with totemic, blood totem startup, along with the tecuani maul amplification startup frame, the latter kinda makes the variation somewhat unable to do what it's supposed to in some matchups like Sonya and Outtake Cage. Adjust those, and the variation be spot on i think.
 
Nevan_PTF

Nevan_PTF

All your mains belong to me!
So, following the variation vs matchup discussion, what factors would you take into consideration when picking up a variation against a determined match up?

I understand the following so far:

Ascension - more offensive tool, combo damage due to DF2, cmd grab;

Totemic - blood totem, tools to deal with zoning with the kitteh, but loss of damage;

Buluc - damage increase + damage reduction totems(stackable), better Sun Ray, better zoning/laming out options;

If my assessment is correct, then Buluc is more versatile, since it provides damage/damage reduction, even losing cmd grab from Ascension and it has better tools than Totemic.

I'm sure I'm missing lots of details, but Buluc existence makes the variations more situational?
 
fluffybunbunkittens

fluffybunbunkittens

Apprentice
Ascension is still the overall best performer, trading safety (and proper sunlight) for damage and the threat of mid command grab. It doesn't need setup, you're 100% ready to wreck stuff up at any second, and even if you never throw out a naked grab or 12grab, the opponent still has to fear you might.

Buluc is the best all-rounder, MB disc gives a great safety option (even if they start flawless blocking it, they still have to respect that you might end f24 in it, keeping them from pressing buttons when you're -7), can enter boss mode unless pressured, and its main string is unbreakaway-able.

Totemic is the cutest, but is just worse than the others vs anything but a zoning-happy Cetrion (deals less damage than the others, its totem is too unreliable and slow to ever use). You pick it it for the love of kitties, or if you really wish Kotal had a divekick (MB version of which is safe if it hits them in the torso region or lower).
 
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Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
fluffybunbunkittens said:
Ascension is still the overall best performer, trading safety (and proper sunlight) for damage and the threat of mid command grab. It doesn't need setup, you're 100% ready to wreck stuff up at any second, and even if you never throw out a naked grab or 12grab, the opponent still has to fear you might.

Buluc is the best all-rounder, MB disc gives a great safety option (even if they start flawless blocking it, they still have to respect that you might end f24 in it, keeping them from pressing buttons when you're -7), can enter boss mode unless pressured, and its main string is unbreakaway-able.

Totemic is the cutest, but is just worse than the others vs anything but a zoning-happy Cetrion (deals less damage than the others, its totem is too unreliable and slow to ever use). You pick it it for the love of kitties, or if you really wish Kotal had a divekick (MB version of which is safe if it hits them in the torso region or lower).
Click to expand...
Totemic is definitely the cutest
 
Nevan_PTF

Nevan_PTF

All your mains belong to me!
fluffybunbunkittens said:
Ascension is still the overall best performer, trading safety (and proper sunlight) for damage and the threat of mid command grab. It doesn't need setup, you're 100% ready to wreck stuff up at any second, and even if you never throw out a naked grab or 12grab, the opponent still has to fear you might.

Buluc is the best all-rounder, MB disc gives a great safety option (even if they start flawless blocking it, they still have to respect that you might end f24 in it, keeping them from pressing buttons when you're -7), can enter boss mode unless pressured, and its main string is unbreakaway-able.

Totemic is the cutest, but is just worse than the others vs anything but a zoning-happy Cetrion (deals less damage than the others, its totem is too unreliable and slow to ever use). You pick it it for the love of kitties, or if you really wish Kotal had a divekick.
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Okay, I wasn't that far from the reality.

Thanks for developing that further man!

This game has so many attractive characters to play and so little time to play the game lmao
 
MrArcher15

MrArcher15

Kombatant
So I’m trying out kotal Kahn cuz I loved him in mkx but man as a Jax main.......wtf do I do after d1???? This dude was mashing after it and nothing was working. Another d1? Cmd grab? F4?? Looking at his frame data he doesn’t have amazing options after it. I now understand why having no fast mid is ass man shit was infuriating. Any help would be appreciated.
 
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