Match-up Discussion Kitana Matchup Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Kitana' started by Konqrr, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. Konqrr

    Konqrr Rose Namajunas

    When you discuss or list what you think the matchups are, please do so in alphabetical order. Also, they should be listed in either whole numbers or .5 notations.

    Matchups are being updated slowly. I will keep adding information as I find time.

    7-3 - Baraka
    8-2 - Cyber Sub-Zero
    Kitana controls the air which shuts down dive kick. It is very difficult for him to get in. Teleport is very unsafe. Even if the CSZ player does it on reaction to an iAF, he still doesn't recover in time to do anything. Teleport is punished by 2~lift. If Kitana has a significant life lead, it is nearly impossible for CSZ to make a comeback. Kitana is one of the few characters that can easily escape the EX Bomb -> EX Freeze trap.

    5-5 - Cyrax
    Cyrax has a difficult time landing a net on her, but when he does... she loses at least 50%.

    5-5 - Ermac
    Blocked lift or teleport means 45% combo. Force push shuts down iAF from anywhere but fullscreen, but is nullified by dash blocking. 3/4 screen whiffed force push nets Kitana 40% one bar. Ermac unsafe moves are extremely unsafe when blocked where Kitana's unsafe moves are not punished by big damage.

    After Kitana blocks a force push, she can attack with f21. It is not a guaranteed punish, but Ermac is forced to block this or eat a 45% combo. When he starts respecting this option, Kitana can dash block to get in his face.

    4-6 - Freddy
    Kitana has a very difficult time getting in and building meter. Freddy's big hitbox allows Kitana to pressure him easily when she gets in.

    6-4 - Jade
    Kitana wins the footsie battle, does way more damage, and nullifies Jade's d3 to avoid crossups and pressure with jump kick -> air fans.

    5-5 - Jax
    Kitana's low hitbox takes away one of Jax's best pressure tools, f413.

    6-4 - Johnny Cage
    3-7 - Kabal
    Kabal owns the air where Kitana reigns. True iABGs hit Kitana out of ground fan throw which is her only option against iAGB until she is in range. Once Kitana gets in, Kabal's up close game is much better than hers so she must rely on fan damage and projectile advantage to get him to the corner.

    Kitana's 2 hits Kabal out of all of his wakeup options and trades with the wakeup saw.

    7-3 - Kano
    Kitana has way better footsies than Kano. Upball is punished by 21 into whatever she wants. Normal ball is punished by 45%+ combos. It is an uphill battle for Kano.

    2-8 - Kenshi
    Kenshi is THE anti-Kitana character. He shuts her down in every aspect. She must make good reads (aka guesses) to punish him, and punish hard when she does. Every spirit barge he hits her with gives him a free blocked overhead which builds him a quarter bar of meter.

    6-4 - Kung Lao
    While it may be hard for Kung Lao to catch her, he has options to punish her every move if he positions himself correctly for them. She punishes him hard. Shaolin fist is punished by 21 into the combo of her choice. Teleport i3 is punished by 2~fan, 4~lift for over 40%.

    5-5 - Liu Kang
    Footsies. Zoning battle. Liu's low fireball completely shuts down her iAF game, so she has to get in range to make them unsafe. Her d1 is punished by b312 into 37% or 43% in the corner with no meter. If he is waiting for a d1, he is open to pressure and throws which open her superior ground game. He has no safe wakeup moves, all of them are punished for 45%.

    6-4 - Mileena
    6-4 - Nightwolf
    d1 completely shuts down Nightwolf's offense. Nightwolf f31 is duckable on the second hit and punished by full combo. Kitana has no safe answer to avoid unblockable lightning after a shoulder charge.

    6-4 - Noob Saibot
    Kitana almost always gets the first hit bonus with d1 (blocked shadow is punished by ff~d1). Up shadow is punished by f21 or ex fan. Once Noob is cornered, he has no safe way out and he gets cornered easily.

    7-3 - Quan Chi
    5-5 - Raiden

    6-4 - Rain

    5-5 - Reptile

    7-3 - Scorpion

    5-5 - Sektor

    6-4 - Shang Tsung
    I do not have much exp here. From what I have experienced, she has no safe distance to throw iAF except from absolute fullscreen. Shang's f434 whiffs a ducking blocking Kitana on the second hit, she can mash d1 to get out.

    8-2 - Sheeva
    Telestomp is a non-issue due to square boost. You can iAF all day on Sheeva and there isn't much she can do about it.

    6-4 - Sindel
    Sindel afb hits you, 8%. Kitana air fan hits you, she gets 30-35% from fullscreen. Kitana punishes much harder.

    6-4 - Skarlet
    4-6 - Smoke
    4-6 - Sonya Blade
    6-4 - Stryker

    7-3 - Sub-Zero

    PhilipGraves likes this.
  2. 16 Bit

    16 Bit Mash d+1~Cat Claws
    NetherRealm Studios

    Why is Sub-Zero even? I feel like that's one of her best, arguably into 6.5-3.5 territory. I have never seen a Sub that could trade with IAF or get in.

    Like I said in the thread, I can't buy Sektor as 6-4. His zoning is too good. Instant air teleport is a huge factor. You cannot play your normal projectile battle with him.

    Sell me on Ermac, Liu Kang and Kabal.
    Dsynkronized likes this.
  3. Konqrr

    Konqrr Rose Namajunas

    Ermac's main game is bf1, lift punish, and jps into 31 pressure.

    Out of range - Kitana can punish bf1 hard with one bar.
    Midrange - Kitana can block it then dash in and d1 before he can do another and now she is in.
    Jump to close - Full punish

    Lift = lol

    His jps~31 game is really good. But if you read that he is going to jump over you, you can punish with a BT 2~Fan combo for 40%. I did this to Brady at S1lent1's house in Vegas when he got too crossup happy.

    Everything feels in Kitana's favor when I play this matchup.

    Liu Kang, I don't have enough matchup experience in it. People tell me it's 5-5.

    Kabal, I just feel that at high level he can use iAGB at that perfect level that you have to block it or duck under it which negates your ground fan game against him. It forces you to go in on him. Kitana not being in control of the air game hurts her.
  4. VIDA

    VIDA Focused Grace and Intensity

    She;s still 4-6 Kano? I think upball patch brings that one down to a 5-5 Id venture to say. Up ball becomes easily punishable by 21-fan lift.

    While knives may negate iAf, they dont negate all AFs and SBs. I think these "air mixups" are underrated and can work well, even sometimes against super zoners like Kenshi, Ermac, and Noob. At least those last two have attacking TP's to get around it when timed well or done on reaction. Kano has canon ball which doesnt feel fast enough and can be caught by an AF. His normals are slow and his upball is mostly useful on naked jump ins that are wrongly set up in the first place.

    Mind u havent had much Kano xp since his patching.

    Stryker a 5-5 I really question since f2 seems to easily beat all his normal wakeups. Stryker cant do much when pressured in close by her. Also cross ups seem to be one of his weaknesses. He has more zoning tools but they dont outzone her that much to make the Kit player that cautious with her. I just feel like she has her way ith him in a 7-3. Admittedly tho Ive only really faced PoliceBrutality's Stryker which was pretty good, but my xp playing against Stryker isnt varied.

    Sonya might be 5-5 and she is a very underused and underrated char but i wonder if that really is a 5-5 and not 6-4 in sum1's favour, Can EX fan lift catch her divekick on reaction?

    With Kenshi sure he has this at full screen but he is ripped apart in close by her. Really curious how she matches up with the dlc.
  5. 16 Bit

    16 Bit Mash d+1~Cat Claws
    NetherRealm Studios

    What I do against blocked mid b,f+1 is f+2 which forces him to block as a way in. Dash d+1 sounds good too. I agree we can get in but I think Ermac is probably better up close than people know. I was shown some pretty cool unblockable technology at Evo that I haven't seen Ermac's use.

    Liu Kang feels even to me.

    Good point about Kabal IAGB.
  6. 16 Bit

    16 Bit Mash d+1~Cat Claws
    NetherRealm Studios

    I think Kano is still 4-6. Being able to punish upball just made it go from horrible to possible lol. You still have to respect it.
  7. VIDA

    VIDA Focused Grace and Intensity

    My xp Kitana cant simply f2 to counter a blocked TKP when Ermac is JUST in range b/c Ermac will be walking backwards as f2 comes out, making it whiff for an easy, easy punish. He has to be in such a range so that walking back or even backdashing wont get him out of at least blocking f2 in time. He completely shuts down her Sb as a means of placement, since he can pretty much punish it with a lift or TKP on player reaction. Wondering if there's to do it but unlike SZ's projectile for example the startup and recovery on Ermac's is too small to make SB safe to use during a thrown fireball animation.
  8. 16 Bit

    16 Bit Mash d+1~Cat Claws
    NetherRealm Studios

    Yeah you've got to dash block in close enough to f+2 after blocked tp. That matchup really sucks until you get in that position.

    That's why I say 5-5. He blows up a big part of her game. I'm not comfortable with calling any Kitana matchup where she doesn't have the option to zone a 6-4.
  9. Havik

    Havik Noob

    this is quit useful konqrr never knew she was so complex
    6-4 on kung lao ermac and nw but 5-5 on jade and stryker
  10. Konqrr

    Konqrr Rose Namajunas

    Kitana blows up Smoke and she can't zone him, it's just that Smoke can't do anything safe against her at or around jump distance. Hell... even at 3/4 screen she can do an :en iAF to BnB on reaction to a Smoke Bomb.

    The Ermac matchup is different though because you can't do stray iAF due to being blown up by bf1 or lift on the way down. She is forced to go in or dance in and out of bf1 range to make him want to try it so you can punish it with :en Fan for her BnB.

    @Havik, 5-5 vs Jade because of projectile invincibility and :en glow

    5-5 vs Stryker because she can't throw random fans at him. She is forced to come in. It would be worse if she didn't get in so easily, she really has nothing to fear from him. I'm leaning more towards 6-4 even.

    This is already an awesome thread!

    EDIT: I was talking to Shords who took 2nd in the I.E Battlegrounds Ranbat last night. He plays Kitana and he actually lost in the ranbat to a really good Liu Player (XBlades). I guess they play all the time. He said that low fireball shuts down her fan game and forces her to come in. With her damage output and being able to block his mixups up close... 5.5-4.5 Liu

    What do you guys think about the DLC matchups?

    I know that Kenshi is a bitch to play against. His overhead blade pretty much shuts down iAF, and reflect is annoying as well. His f22b2 or whatever his 3 hit ending in overhead is gives him advantage up close. Kenshi is pretty gdlk.

    Leaning towards 6.5-3.5 for Kenshi

    Skarlet? It's very hard for Kitana to get in without being blown up by daggers. Skarlet has armor on her :en moves that launch and end in 112 that grounds you in hitstun for a mixup.

    7-3 Skarlet?

    It's too early for me to think about Rain lol
  11. wade dp

    wade dp Noob

    5-5 vs Smoke : no smoke is annoying with his shake parry ,it makes the fans unsafe to use .
  12. Konqrr

    Konqrr Rose Namajunas

    Kitana doesn't use or need fans to beat Smoke. She bullies him in other ways and there is nothing he can safely do when she is at jump distance.
  13. Liu's low fireball is a pain in the ass for sure, but not too too hard to avoid (think you can iAF over it, but don't know how well that works off of the top of my head). I definitely wouldn't try to trade projectiles with him. In close Liu has a good mixup game, but if you know his 2 main BnB strings (b+312 hits low high high, and his other hits high high overhead) then those are a cakewalk to block as you can see them coming in advance. I usually block low to start. His b+4 i believe is his other main overhead (might be safe?) that he can use to mix things up. I play a good Liu who does all of his standard BnBs very well and I don't have a hard time most of the time. Once you get knocked down, you either need EX for wakeup or you need to be very smart about how you wakeup block. I just d+1 him out of reach and then it's up to what the Liu player does, really. Sometimes they try to "walk in" the b312 chain and I can crossup and start offense. It really depends on what they're doing. Once you can get some pressure on him they usually crack.

    I still think it's 5-5.

    lol, don't think so.
  14. smokey

    smokey EX Ovi should launch

    I actually have a fairly hard match with lui kang, but i agree on 5-5, his BnB's become easy to block and d+1 at the right positioning. Its not an easy match by any means, but it becomes fairly straight forward if you keep your head and try not to get knocked down too much.

    Also, i have trouble against nooby scorpions, so what should i be doing for that matchup, he seems to just keep me locked down and if im not really good on my mixup defence then i get blown apart. Playing online vs scorpion is a regular matchup (like 60-70% of my matches seem to be against scorp) and it really frustrates me how i cant play him.
  15. rev0lver

    rev0lver Come On Die Young
    Premium Supporter

    Bait teleports. Block, punish.

    As for Liu Kang - A Kang who knows how to low fireball/air fireball pressure from zoning distance can be somewhat of a maze for Kitana to get into without burning a bar for ex squarewave. His starters are obviously faster than Kitana's, though she does have d1 of course. Personally, I'd give a slight edge to Kang.

    As for Smoke - Every time I play a smoke player I expect them to look for fans to shake. Pressure them from the start and then throw in some iaf's towards the end. If you remove shake from their list of priorities, they'll have a hard time reacting to projectiles when you finally use them.
  16. devil_puncher

    devil_puncher Sektor Supreme

    This is good info. especially since i just picked up Kitana, but how does she beat kung loa am i missing something? Please enlighten me.
  17. Hmm... I'd like to understand Mileena's 5-5. I really feel like she was specifically designed to tick off Kitana players with a roll that eats up air moves and fans, a teleport to shut down air fans that takes meter to punish on block, and air sais to compete with the keepaway game Kitty tries to dish out. I always felt I was at a disadvantage.

    Sektor we win? Phew... I must be playing Sektor wrong then. Teleport really eats up her air game, AND he gets a free combo off of it. His zoning is really good too, and Sektor is generally fast.

    I played an extremely good Skarlet before, and I actually think this matchup can be even. Kitana is fast and powerful enough to punish any foreseen red dash with 2,1,lift. This makes use of this attack in block strings a bit iffy. True Skarlet's zoning is very good, but how much does she profit from it? 3% isn't a lot, and both kunai dont combo into each other. One square boost gets you over a dash cancelled onslaught of them. Kitana profits much more from a projectile war with her 35%+ combos, so Skarlet has to be equally wary in the air. Her teleport is good, but Kitana can punish it with a 21, lift full combo as well. Play it safe up close and I think you should be able to hold up.
  18. jaybt9

    jaybt9 Noob

    This is my same situation as well, especially when I'm trying my best to master Kitana.

    I haven't been playing online recently, so I wouldn't know any changes they have made now.
  19. Osu I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about the Sheeva match up after our little series. And thanks for letting test to see if En Fan > Backwards Telestomp. (It doesn't) I'm wondering though if after Kitana does an iaFan and Sheeva jump stomps, if Kitana can En Fan then?
  20. Jimmypotato

    Jimmypotato Mid Tier

    I used to have trouble with mileena until I learned how to effectively deal with her wake ups, thanks to Konqrr for that video.
    The Skarlet match up I believe, The speed of the Kunai is what blows you up, square boost out and you're gonna get blow up when you land.
    I don't get to practice the sektor match up alot, I'm 50/50 on it.
  21. 16 Bit

    16 Bit Mash d+1~Cat Claws
    NetherRealm Studios

    I could never get it to work. It'd either reverse the controls and f+2 would come out or nothing would and I'd get squashed. My usual anti-stomp strategy of jump back boost when I see the stomp isn't working either.

    I don't know about that matchup. It's obviously in Kitana's favor because of the runaway but you've got me scared when you're in. I'm more afraid of that command grab frame trap than Cage's rushdown now. It's ridiculous lol. I've assumed that matchup is 7-3 but it does not seem that bad for Sheeva now. However I don't know how much of that is due to skill level and knowledge, I feel like there's probably solutions to some of the stuff that's blowing me up that I don't know.
  22. Robotic

    Robotic Gentleman.

    I just want to say thanks. You guys are owning the matchup thread. The Sektor matchup thread is a big pile of balled up hogshit compared to this; hardly anyone is contributing.

    I hope you guys don't mind me taking the info from in here to alter the Kitana v Sektor matchup over there. Does anyone else think the match is even? In Sektor's favor? Are we all missing why Kitana should be favored?
  23. Konqrr

    Konqrr Rose Namajunas

    Osu and Sektroll have a lot of experience in this matchup.

    Feel free to use any info you find for the Sektor thread.
  24. rev0lver

    rev0lver Come On Die Young
    Premium Supporter

    Kung Lao is actually not a worry for me when my opponent picks him. Maybe every single Kung Lao I've played on xbl is terrible, but I agree with the advantage. Instant air fan gets rid of low hat trouble, spins can be baited with a jump in+air fan at the last second, and d1 stuffs a lot of his pressure.
  25. Fresh T

    Fresh T Noob

    I thought you were done with MK for a week, probably more?

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