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Match-up Discussion Kitana Matchup Discussion Thread

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Interesting. I am certainly going to work on practicing the Mileena punishes for next time lol.

I have some NEC MU thoughts I may post soon about Quan Chi, Sonya, Cyrax and Ermac since those were the main characters I played in casuals this weekend.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Is Dashing it easy? Punishing with d1 ex lift seems easier
It is NOT easy and takes a lot of practice to get it. That's why I said this:

"I know this is kind of useless as you can just block the second kick low and punish just the same, but you take 2% less chip and prevent her from gaining the meter for the blocked telekick and the whiffed sai that follows."
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
Interesting. I am certainly going to work on practicing the Mileena punishes for next time lol.

I have some NEC MU thoughts I may post soon about Quan Chi, Sonya, Cyrax and Ermac since those were the main characters I played in casuals this weekend.
please add cyblax in there when you do, please.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
please add cyblax in there when you do, please.

That's what I meant. Cyrax vs. Cyblax vs Kitana is really interesting. Maybe both are the same level of toughness but for different reasons...
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
I'm EMO I dropped some of my combos in top 8 last weekend. Even f+4,1, b+3,3~lift. Maaaaaaaan.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
7L GGA 16 Bit rev0lver xKhaoTikx Mr. Mileena CRAZY DOMINICAN Starcharger28 DanCock RunwayMafia NeoRussell gr8one06

Edenian brethren... I have confirmed new tech vs Mileena's EX Telekick.

Video of the new tech:


Originally discovered by DanCock 10 months ago:


I will apologize in advance for not being able to provide a video to explain, but I will do my best to do so.

I thought I would experiment more and with the suggestion from 7L, I tested and confirmed that blocking the first telekick then dashing out of the way of the second and throwing Mileena as she lands is guaranteed exactly like it is after a long combo in the corner ended with standing 2 or d1 and they try to get up by jumping out or ducking (only here, they can't use a wakeup attack to escape with). If timed properly, she cannot duck under the throw.

What does this mean? Obviously you get the forward throw and OTG setup or you can bait a wakeup and punish hard. But more importantly, you can attack with ANY other move that is around 12 frames or faster (possibly even 14? Somberness* ) and they cannot duck it. I have gotten a 33 to connect before they could duck which can be confirmed into Cutter.

Somberness said:
* Technically, you are +16, not including a few frames to get out of the way completely. 3 isn't a true high and will usually hit anyway. If it was a high, it should be guaranteed, provided the hit box makes contact.. It seems that few characters can actually do this while stand blocking the first hit. Sindel & Kitana only?

If a sai is used immediately (it usually is) and you of course crouch block the second hit, the disadvantage is more on the teleport. You can use 2~ex fan which is easier to do than d1~ex fan.
Sadly, because of how fast you have to attack after the dash, you cannot use 21. You may be able to input a down or forward direction then go neutral into 21, but you risk doing a rogue Fan Lift which will be punished. I say, just stay away from using 21 in this setup at all. You could opt for a b3 into EX Fan or Lift, but you cannot hit confirm that. You may even be able to use 11 which you can hit confirm into EX Fan or Lift or Cutter.

Another plus is that whenever a Mileena player does EX Telekick, they buffer the Air Sai quickly. With how fast this setup happens, they will be inputting the Air Sai when you either throw them or throw out an attack. They may even be mashing 1 to get the Air Sai to come out so they will automatically escape any backthrow attempt, so make sure you do the forward throw. They are not thinking to block halfway during this move and are likely to be hit. If they press block in anticipation that I might do this tech, either their Air Sai will not come out because they are blocking, or they go for it and get EX Air Sai wasting yet another bar and they do not want that.

You may not think this is good and you can easily just block both kicks and punish, but I suggest you mess around with this. This is definitely a problem for Mileena.

Let me know what you think... perhaps I will borrow the Hauppauge from my friend and try to record a session of punishing Mileena wakeups to show you exactly what I am talking about.

EDIT: Unlike in the video, you can standblock the first telekick and dash out just the same.
 

7L

Heads up!
Right on Konqrr! It really isn't hard to dash out of the ex tele kick either. Practice a few times and you can do it on reaction. I will definitely be using this to punish mileena.

This would have been very useful for my match against Jer at NEC.

Also, you can possibly pull out a 2-1 if the mileena player doesn't expect this because they most likely won't be blocking. But if you want free damage and pressure for mind games, throw is the way to go.

Thank you for confirming this Konqrr!
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Also, you can possibly pull out a 2-1 if the mileena player doesn't expect this because they most likely won't be blocking. But if you want free damage and pressure for mind games, throw is the way to go.
This is almost a guaranteed 33~cutter into chip or a throw setup.

I wouldn't try to use 21 because of the dash out you will get Fan Lift.
 

7L

Heads up!
Ahhh damn, I just remembered working on that. Sorry, I'm swamped studying for finals and my mind is in another dimension XD

Mileena is my least favorite MU and I'm glad I have a little more firepower for myself now. Great find!
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
I've been working on punishing (or more suitably named, "dealing with") Kenshi's wakeups.

In the corner, he has to either block or use a bar to be safe as even barge is punished. Here is a list of what punishes what:
  • Spirit Charge [-10] - EX Lift [10f] (you have to time this to the frame or he can block!). You have a pretty good chance of just dashing up for a throw because they will be expecting an attack and be blocking unless you have no meter and they are watching your meter. If you expect them to duck and punish your throw or 21, you can use b3 [13f] and its various combos and setups.
  • Rising Karma [-17] - 21~Lift or 21~EX Fan into combo [11f]
  • Blade Reflect [6f startup - 54f duration] - This is a wakeup attack, but LBSH... nobody is going to use up close or at any time unless a projectile is coming at them.
Midscreen is another matter altogether. The only wakeup you can truly punish is Rising Karma and Kenshi is always moving backwards so that -17 on block gets a whole lot smaller when you have to dash in. If you are close enough, you can always get 21 or EX Fan Lift.

I was trying to find a setup that beats all wakeup attacks and I was successful after a sweep or knocking him down close by using iAF or EX iAF from a neutral jump or forward jump. You have to time it well to avoid Rising Karma (regular and EX) and Spirit Charge, but you still get hit by the second hit of EX Spirit Charge.

Most of the time, your iAF hits him or is absorbed by EX Rising Karma which whiffs and the second attack does not come out. If you use EX iAF, you can get a full combo, but due to the distance when it hits, it is very difficult to time the f21 for a full combo. I've had success with a double dash out of the EX iAF. Doing a dash-jump out of EX iAF from this distance takes too long and he can block or armor out.

Let me know what you think or if you guys have any other Kenshi tech to share. You know we need this.

NINJA EDIT: A blocked Spirit Charge is -10 and has an 8 frame startup so you have 18 frames to attack before the second one would be able to hit you. (of course he can just use his retarded armor here, but for this example he has no meter)

Here is a list of moves that will hit before another SC hits you:
  • Best option - JIP to full combo
  • d1~cutter [6f] (the cutter can be blocked and/or ducked of course)
  • 21 [11f] (high, mid)
  • iAF [13f from closest point] - the flip after she throws it should avoid the SC
  • b3 [13f] (mid - forces stand on hit)
  • d4 [15f] (low)
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
I kinda hate to say this...... because I know what's happened recently and what's happened in the past....

but....

I'm starting to think Kitana-Baraka is 7-3. I just can't see this being a slight advantage. I played a long set with Evil_Riu48 's Baraka a few weeks ago, which is his secondary character but very strong, and I feel like Kitana shuts too much of his stuff down to be 6-4. Now, I wouldn't argue for this to be 8-2, as Baraka does have tools to counter some of Kitana's options, but Kitana can play her whole game against him without any significant danger. When we look at a 6-4 like Jade, we see options like glow that shuts part of Kitana's options down, but what does Baraka have that brings this closer to even? Riu, how do you feel about this from our set?
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Yea I played riu's baraka also and it felt like it was hella tough for him. I played casuals for about an HR or so with tetra after the tourny and I was doing very well. He was so surprised at how fast I adjusted just moments after our streamed match.

Also, I've been playing Cuban a lot recently and it feels heavily in kits favor.

Baraka's rushdown and spacing can be a real pain tho. His backdash is gdlk, blade charge can happen so unexpectedly, frame traps for days, and that damn d4.

I'm not too worried about the MU number for this Match tho. I just know she wins.


Edit: Krayzie has the video of the MM between me and riu. Should be up soon. I've never worked so hard for $3 before lmao
 
I kinda hate to say this...... because I know what's happened recently and what's happened in the past....

but....

I'm starting to think Kitana-Baraka is 7-3. I just can't see this being a slight advantage. I played a long set with Evil_Riu48 's Baraka a few weeks ago, which is his secondary character but very strong, and I feel like Kitana shuts too much of his stuff down to be 6-4. Now, I wouldn't argue for this to be 8-2, as Baraka does have tools to counter some of Kitana's options, but Kitana can play her whole game against him without any significant danger. When we look at a 6-4 like Jade, we see options like glow that shuts part of Kitana's options down, but what does Baraka have that brings this closer to even? Riu, how do you feel about this from our set?
I think it is 6-4 kitana ... you just were playing the matchup better than I was. . . You beating me like 10-0 does not make the matchup 7-3 I guess I just need to change the way I play the matchup
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
So (online) today I reversed the input of fan lift after a knockdown and it actually landed on Ermac doing his knockdown teleport gimmick thing. Anyone know if this is viable?
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
So (online) today I reversed the input of fan lift after a knockdown and it actually landed on Ermac doing his knockdown teleport gimmick thing. Anyone know if this is viable?
EX? It might as it is 10 frames... Also, it would be a sort of option select because if they don't teleport nothing happens lol
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
EX? It might as it is 10 frames... Also, it would be a sort of option select because if they don't teleport nothing happens lol
Nope, it was a regular old fan lift! If you do EX you might actually OS into tech roll, which isn't the worst thing in the world.