Match-up Discussion Kitana Matchup Discussion Thread

[16 Bit]

I think a MU chart that has her losing to characters like Sonya, Liu Kang and Ermac must have Kabal at 3-7. I cannot accept a MU like Ermac being the same as Kabal.

To me the tipping point on Cyrax was two things. How good his AA grab is for stopping her jump in shenanigans and the latest unbreakable traps were off everything you're eating standard combo damage before you can even break.

 

[rev0lver]

I think a MU chart that has her losing to characters like Sonya, Liu Kang and Ermac must have Kabal at 3-7. I cannot accept a MU like Ermac being the same as Kabal.

lol honestly i would rather fight any kabal than a good ermac player in tournament

 

[Konqrr]

I disagree with this. Trance is super negative on block and can easily be punished with a f21. Using ex fan in most circumstances in this matchup wastes precious meter that you might need in a rune trap situation

I agree about saving meter for breaking in this matchup, however even from max distance you can punish a blocked trance with ex fan for a full combo.

 

[BillStickers]

Ooo yay i love MU discussion

Freddy - 4-6 until Freddy players level up, then it might be 3-7.

Kabal - 3-7 This matchup is terrible and I am determined to convince every Kitana player ever. It's only 4-6 on the Pit.

Cyrax - 5-5 both human and robot IMO.

Cage - probably 6-4 at the highest level given that most of Kitana's problems in this match are due to inaccuracies on the player's part (whiffing f21, poking out at the wrong time, etc.)

Liu Kang - 5-5. requires patience getting in and good spacing. once kitana gets her shit started, though, he has to respect her.

Ermac - 5-5 the difference between Ermac and Kenshi is that he's so much more unsafe and he's a lot more punishable. i agree that his mind games can really fuck you up, though.

Mileena - 6-4. Mileena's too unsafe and Kitana punishes way too hard.

Sonya - 4-6. Do anything except throw fans and risk death. Not a fun match in the slightest.

Reptile - 4-6. Shut up xKhaoTikx

Jax - 6-4 I only took one game off of Tyrant when I played him, but our matches seemed close, which shouldn't be the case for me and a top player. Kitana can out footsie him SO hard, not to mention safely poke out of most of his bullshit. Jax's only hope is to get Kitana into the corner.

 

[rev0lver]

Cage - probably 6-4 at the highest level given that most of Kitana's problems in this match are due to inaccuracies on the player's part (whiffing f21, poking out at the wrong time, etc.)

That's not the real problem though. Yeah you can play footsies with him, but most shit that you're going to do there puts you in his pressure on block. The poking is a mind game that requires reads from both players, but when Kitana is right she only gets to back off a little and when she is wrong she eats a f33nutpunch.

And for Liu Kang, I don't really understand what you mean by Kitana getting her shit started. Liu Kang has better normals and doesn't have to give much of a fuck lol.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Kit v Skarlet could be in kits favor. The only good skarlet I've played recently is Scar, and it was online lol. We went back and forth, but it did feel like he had to take loads of risks to get damage. I use skarlet myself and I kinda fear playing kitana at times so maybe it is 6-4 kit.

BillStickers I will not shutup until I'm convinced!

 

[xKhaoTik]

That's not the real problem though. Yeah you can play footsies with him, but most shit that you're going to do there puts you in his pressure on block. The poking is a mind game that requires reads from both players, but when Kitana is right she only gets to back off a little and when she is wrong she eats a f33nutpunch.

And for Liu Kang, I don't really understand what you mean by Kitana getting her shit started. Liu Kang has better normals and doesn't have to give much of a fuck lol.

I agree about Liu Kang here. Kang has better and faster normals to beat her upclose and he beats her from afar. She has the footsies to deal with him and the damage too. Shorry told me he believed it was in kangs favor until he played me, then he thought it was in kits favor lol. Now he thinks its even.

I've ALWAYS thought and will continue thinking kit beats cage. Deep jks don't work, whiffing is scary, blocked nutpunch/shadowkick/flipkick is scary, and ex shadowkick is a waste IMO (in this mu atleast). She has the footsies to compete with him upclose and the defense to keep him out when need be. When he gets in, that's when shit gets real, but if she makes the right read, things can possibly go back into her control again. I feel like kit controls this MU more than cage because of what she can do to keep him at bay and whatnot.

 

[BillStickers]

That's not the real problem though. Yeah you can play footsies with him, but most shit that you're going to do there puts you in his pressure on block. The poking is a mind game that requires reads from both players, but when Kitana is right she only gets to back off a little and when she is wrong she eats a f33nutpunch.

And for Liu Kang, I don't really understand what you mean by Kitana getting her shit started. Liu Kang has better normals and doesn't have to give much of a fuck lol.

As far as Cage is concerned I mostly have to just agree with 16 Bit only for the fact that he has more MU experience with JC than any of us.

Maybe I've just never been punished for it, but once I land a standing fan, jump in punch, jump in kick, d3, or d4 i feel like Kang can't really do much.

 

[rev0lver]

I've ALWAYS thought and will continue thinking kit beats cage. Deep jks don't work, whiffing is scary, blocked nutpunch/shadowkick/flipkick is scary, and ex shadowkick is a waste IMO (in this mu atleast). She has the footsies to compete with him upclose and the defense to keep him out when need be. When he gets in, that's when shit gets real, but if she makes the right read, things can possibly go back into her control again. I feel like kit controls this MU more than cage because of what she can do to keep him at bay and whatnot.

I feel like this is more of a problem of Cage players thinking they can just throw shit out there and get away with it. Until I played Dizzy and realized what the highest level Cage can do, I thought Kitana had good control of this MU too. But while Kitana can do a lot to keep him out, Cage can do a lot to keep her in. Things like baiting and punishing d1's are something more Cage players should be doing here and can change your perception of the matchup.

 

[16 Bit]

I go back and forth on JC vs. Kit being 5-5 or 6-4. It's hard to say in our situation. It's a MU were she controls the MU but he has tools for dealing with her if he has the Kit downloaded. Regardless of the number Dizzy is months ahead of the rest of the scene in playing the MU.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I still feel like these matchups need to be more solidified -

Freddy - 3-7 or 4-6?
Kabal - 3-7 or 4-6?
Cyrax - Difference with human and robot?
Cage - 6-4 or 5-5?
Liu Kang - 5-5 or 4-6?
Ermac - 5-5 or 4-6?
Mileena - 5-5 or 6-4?
Sonya - 5-5 or 4-6?

I would put in Reptile but that has been debated to death and just not worth it anymore lol

I also want to throw out there that I think Skarlet could be 6-4 in Kitana's favor but I know not many would agree.

My opinion only
Freddy 3-7
Kabal 3-7
Cyrax 5-5
Cage 5-5
Lui Kang 4-6
Ermac- 5-5
Mileena- 5-5
Sonya 4-6

 

[GuamoKun]

I am a fraudulent and weird Kitana but no MU makes me as iffy as Shang Tsung.

How do you all go about it?

I know you can iAF from full screen....I know Shang's advantages on his stuff on block and what jails completely. I have virtually no experience offline so maybe I'm just being sad because of how online pokes don't come out and frame data changes and stuff.

rev0lver had to deal with me freaking out over this MU for like hours yesterday.

 

[Konqrr]

I am a fraudulent and weird Kitana but no MU makes me as iffy as Shang Tsung.

How do you all go about it?

I know you can iAF from full screen....I know Shang's advantages on his stuff on block and what jails completely. I have virtually no experience offline so maybe I'm just being sad because of how online pokes don't come out and frame data changes and stuff.

rev0lver had to deal with me freaking out over this MU for like hours yesterday.

Frame data doesn't change online, only the timing due to delay. This is not the older online MK games where the online code actually changed the frame data. This was confirmed by NRS when I was there that they made the code the same online and off.

I fight Shang from about jump distance or if I have a life lead from fullscreen throwing iafs to build meter and run away. This way you can ninja ff~d1 him to annoy him and be out of range of his frametraps. You will also be in range to f21 any whiffed fireballs. Never jump at him unless you are doing so while he is doing another move or if you make a read that he will do a soul steal.

iAF all day while playing footsies.

 

[GuamoKun]

Frame data doesn't change online, only the timing due to delay. This is not the older online MK games where the online code actually changed the frame data. This was confirmed by NRS when I was there that they made the code the same online and off.

I fight Shang from about jump distance or if I have a life lead from fullscreen throwing iafs to build meter and run away. This way you can ninja ff~d1 him to annoy him and be out of range of his frametraps. You will also be in range to f21 any whiffed fireballs. Never jump at him unless you are doing so while he is doing another move or if you make a read that he will do a soul steal.

iAF all day while playing footsies.

Got it....it's probably that I'm just unfamiliar with this MU outside of theory :0

You are helping me .....konqrr this matchup

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Frame data doesn't change online, only the timing due to delay. This is not the older online MK games where the online code actually changed the frame data. This was confirmed by NRS when I was there that they made the code the same online and off.

I fight Shang from about jump distance or if I have a life lead from fullscreen throwing iafs to build meter and run away. This way you can ninja ff~d1 him to annoy him and be out of range of his frametraps. You will also be in range to f21 any whiffed fireballs. Never jump at him unless you are doing so while he is doing another move or if you make a read that he will do a soul steal.

iAF all day while playing footsies.

I hate this mu with shang. Kitana really hurts his footsies because her normals have more range and are faster than his main footsies tool,ss. She can also stop playing footsies at anytime with iaf (unless she is in the corner) the only place shang wins is upclose because she has no fast standing normals or armor. At every other part of the screen she forces shang to take huge risks with whiffed specials and normals. The only whiffed normal shang can punish is f+2,1 otherwise she is safe. Lol il probably just go with my secondary in tournament

 

[Jimmypotato]

Can the OP of this post be updated with current match up numbers? I feel new players to the character are being mislead, and sifting through 26 pages of posts to find them all is not very appealing.

 

[rev0lver]

^^ Konqrr

lol at 16bit vs sektroll justification

 

[rev0lver]

Here is a community-style matchup chart which I have gotten from various high-level players' input. I think we can all agree after this that Kitana is seriously downplayed and a top 5 character.

Scorpion 7-3
Sub-Zero 7-3
Reptile 5-5
Ermac 6-4
Noob 6-4
Smoke 5-5
Rain 7-3
Mileena 6-4
Jade 7-3
Skarlet 5-5
Sektor 5-5
Cyrax 6-4
Cyber Sub 8-2
Kenshi 4-6
Freddy 4-6
Sindel 6-4
Sonya 6-4
Jax 5-5
Cage 6-4
Stryker 6-4
Liu Kang 5-5
Kung Lao 6-4
Kano 6-4
Nightwolf 6-4
Kabal 5-5
Baraka 7-3
Shang Tsung 6-4
Quan Chi 6-4
Raiden 6-4
Sheeva 9-1

 

[xKhaoTik]

Here is a community-style matchup chart which I have gotten from various high-level players' input. I think we can all agree after this that Kitana is seriously downplayed and a top 5 character.

Scorpion 7-3
Sub-Zero 7-3
Reptile 5-5
Ermac 6-4
Noob 6-4
Smoke 5-5
Rain 7-3
Mileena 6-4
Jade 7-3
Skarlet 5-5
Sektor 5-5
Cyrax 6-4
Cyber Sub 8-2
Kenshi 4-6
Freddy 4-6
Sindel 6-4
Sonya 6-4
Jax 5-5
Cage 6-4
Stryker 6-4
Liu Kang 5-5
Kung Lao 6-4
Kano 6-4
Nightwolf 6-4
Kabal 5-5
Baraka 7-3
Shang Tsung 6-4
Quan Chi 6-4
Raiden 6-4
Sheeva 9-1

Wait what? Is this real? Lol

 

[16 Bit]

Did you guys know that you can punish Jax's f+4~overhead with d+1, dash up 2~lift into combo? As in, you block the d+4, then let go of block and d+1 and it interrupts the OH in the air then you juggle.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Did you guys know that you can punish Jax's f+4~overhead with d+1, dash up 2~lift into combo? As in, you block the d+4, then let go of block and d+1 and it interrupts the OH in the air then you juggle.

I didn't know that. I knew she can interrupt f4 OH. I just did the 2fan AA combo to interrupt it. But this seems easier.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Did you guys know that you can punish Jax's f+4~overhead with d+1, dash up 2~lift into combo? As in, you block the d+4, then let go of block and d+1 and it interrupts the OH in the air then you juggle.

Practicing for NEC I see! It won't help you against us! Mwuahaha!




Actually, can any of you guys give me tips on Kitana vs Lao? I want to run her in that matchup, but I'm having problems with it.

 

[Konqrr]

^^ Konqrr

lol at 16bit vs sektroll justification

Yeah, that is hella outdated.

 

[Konqrr]

Hey guys, I want to update the OP with current information and not just my opinion.

There are some matchups that do not have concrete information behind them or any posted reasoning behind them. If you feel like you have some insight into any of these matchups, post what you think the MU is and why so I can have multiple people quoted for each MU.

1. Baraka - Popular opinion is 6-4, some say 7-3. I rarely play this matchup.
2. Freddy - Is it 4-6 or 3-7? I have played this a lot lately, offline and on, and I don't feel that it truly is in the 3-7 bracket.
3. Jax - Nobody really talks about this MU anymore now that CDjr stopped playing him.
4. Cage - GGA 16 Bit, you play the best Cage in the world all the time. What do you think now?
5. Kano - This MU is absolutely 7-3. Kitana never needs to get in, gets full punish on all of his balls (lol), and she out-footsies him badly. Other opinions?
6. Kenshi - LBSH ... 2-8 Screw you blind man
7. Mileena - Widely thought to be 5-5, some say otherwise. xKhaoTikx, I read a post of yours awhile back where you stated that Kitana wins. Do you mind posting some details?
8. Quan Chi - Currently 6-4. I feel that she out footsies him badly and punishes him hard. How is he ever going to get in? If he tries a stomp, she gets a full combo. Full combo on whiff or blocked trance. I think it's worse for him than that.
9. Raiden - 5-5?
10. Rain - This to me is like playing Cyrax without a reset and a really slow net. I feel that it is 6-4.
11. Reptile - I know there is big debate on this MU in the last couple months. I'm not convinced that it is anything but even. I play this a lot offline. Standing in dash range just outside of his d4 is a big problem for Reptile.
12. Sektor - Where do we stand? Why?
13. Sonya - Even or not? Why?
14. Stryker - I used to struggle with this MU before I truly understood the current metagame and footsies. I don't think this is even anymore.

I tried to scour the thread and other matchup threads, but it was too daunting and I don't have that kind of time this week. If anyone wants to post what they think on any of the above, please do, and tag me.

EDIT: Don't forget to post ANY matchup specific technology! I will add it to the OP.

 

[xKhaoTik]

IMO:

Baraka: 7-3
Freddy: 4-6
Jax: I hate this MU so damn much. But everyone says its even. This is my personal bad MU for kit.
Cage: 6-4
Kano: I had it 6-4, but I've never played it at high level play. I know Mr. Mileena preaches this is 7-3.
Kenshi: lbsh, its only 2-8 against pig.
Mileena: 6-4. I will get to this later in the post.
Quan: AT LEAST 6-4
Raiden: 5-5
Rain:6-4
Reptile: 5-5 lol
Sektor: 5-5. I've been studying this MU a lot lately
Sonya: 5-5 but it COULD Possibly be in kits favor. I know death is starting to hate this MU a bit lol. Me and him are gonna bang this MU out at nec
Stryker: this is another one of my personal bad MUs. I hate this match. But everyone says its 6-4 now.


Now for kitana against mileena. This used to be a bad MU back in the day, then we figured out the MU, then it became 5-5. But in today's metagame and the playstyles of both characters, I honestly feel like kitana wins. Yes, kitana can't throw fans, but she has advantageous MUs in which she can't throw fans. Also, even tho mileena can zone her, the zoning is average and is nothing to fear. Kitana can affords to make a couple mistakes because mileena's punishment (against kitana) Is not that great, whereas Kitana's punishment reaches +40%. Mileena's d4 can be a nuisance, but it is nothing like Sonya's and with a good read, it can be blown up with f21 or jk~fan. Upclose, kitana beats her upclose IMO . She out footsies her for sure. If kitana gets the life lead, she can just sit back and make mileena come to her.

Kitana is a character that gets a majority of her damage through punishment, rather it be counter poking or a unsafe move. Mileena is a very risky character, and that's something kitana loves. One mistake and mileena is eating huge damage.