Kitana General Discussion

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Hello guys! I wanted to make this post because it’s really game changing... most of you have most likely already noticed that the 4th hit of b231 whiffs sometimes.

Ok.... so Liu Kang can block the string and it will whiff EVERY SINGLE TIME! And not just that... he can always punish with his parry.
Proof video:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1126578067902742528

He is the only character in the game that makes this hit whiff every time AND can punish it.
I will make more videos today or tomorrow because some characters can make this happen by blocking low the whole string (which are the characters that will be able to take advantage of this the most), some can make it whiff by blocking b2 high and then low but this is not as useful imo

However... 70% of the cast can pretty much option select fatal blow against it if they have it available, this is good since it’s really random against some characters so it’s not useful for them to try and make it whiff every time. As I said, you can option select a fatal blow so if the move happens to randomly whiff the fatal blow will come out and if it doesn’t then you can just block.

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

Hello guys! I wanted to make this post because it’s really game changing... most of you have most likely already noticed that the 4th hit of b231 whiffs sometimes.

Ok.... so Liu Kang can block the string and it will whiff EVERY SINGLE TIME! And not just that... he can always punish with his parry.
Proof video:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1126578067902742528

He is the only character in the game that makes this hit whiff every time AND can punish it.
I will make more videos today or tomorrow because some characters can make this happen by blocking low the whole string (which are the characters that will be able to take advantage of this the most), some can make it whiff by blocking b2 high and then low but this is not as useful imo

However... 70% of the cast can pretty much option select fatal blow against it if they have it available, this is good since it’s really random against some characters so it’s not useful for them to try and make it whiff every time. As I said, you can option select a fatal blow so if the move happens to randomly whiff the fatal blow will come out and if it doesn’t then you can just block.

I mean, He is now a Time god, so...

 

[gam224]

She’s fine bro.... give me one reason I should pick kitana over kabal. He’s literally just better kitana

 

[TaserFace007]

She’s fine bro.... give me one reason I should pick kitana over kabal. He’s literally just better kitana

Two reasons:

"Kaballin'"
"Got the spins?"

I tried him in the beta, but those shitty, lame-assed phrases coming up all the time just made him unplayable for me.

 

[Rozalin1780]

Hello guys! I wanted to make this post because it’s really game changing... most of you have most likely already noticed that the 4th hit of b231 whiffs sometimes.

Ok.... so Liu Kang can block the string and it will whiff EVERY SINGLE TIME! And not just that... he can always punish with his parry.
Proof video:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1126578067902742528

He is the only character in the game that makes this hit whiff every time AND can punish it.
I will make more videos today or tomorrow because some characters can make this happen by blocking low the whole string (which are the characters that will be able to take advantage of this the most), some can make it whiff by blocking b2 high and then low but this is not as useful imo

However... 70% of the cast can pretty much option select fatal blow against it if they have it available, this is good since it’s really random against some characters so it’s not useful for them to try and make it whiff every time. As I said, you can option select a fatal blow so if the move happens to randomly whiff the fatal blow will come out and if it doesn’t then you can just block.

Good to know. I suppose he needs it in the spirit of fairness since Kitana can make the third kick of his f3333 string whiff despite it being a mid — as long as you crouch block the entire thing from from a distance NOT right next to Liu Kang. The whiff allows you to punish with b14 which you can’t do otherwise.

 

[gam224]

Two reasons:

"Kaballin'"
"Got the spins?"

I tried him in the beta, but those shitty, lame-assed phrases coming up all the time just made him unplayable for me.

Anything gameplay related?

 

[Rozalin1780]

I’m not home to test things right now, but in regards to this new Liu Kang parrying B231 thing, couldn’t you just cancel into lift before the final two hits (right after the low) to catch him attempting to parry? Lift is considered a ranged attack IIRC...

 

[MK-Gray]

It’s better than Fan Fare imo. Damage sucks, I agree, but it does everything else fan fare does but better.

I am going to respectfully disagree with you here. At the risk of coming off a little mean-spirited I utterly and categorically think you are wrong on this particular point. There is a very good reason no competitive player worth their salt has touched Highborn, it just has way too much bogging it down and its variation equips do not have any synergy with each other.

Take all the strings she has and how you would play with it in fan fare, then add in the sai cancels for mind games. Her “zoning” actually becomes better since sai tracks. Her teleport is a MUCH better option against zoning when compared to the shitty royal protection.

Except there is no mind-game at play here. Not only do you have to spend meter on it but Kitana has very few tools to play with during pressure. She has no mix-ups, one or two strings that stagger effectively, and isn’t positive on much so can’t set up frame-traps or jail people into dealing with a follow-up string. Her entire game is using her very good walk speed, quality advancing mid in B231, ambiguous forward jump, and Fan Flutter to fish for whiffs and do footsies. She’s a tried and true “plays the neutral game” character right now.

Her “zoning” actually becomes better since sai tracks. Her teleport is a MUCH better option against zoning when compared to the shitty royal protection. Sai on oki is really good as well since it’s guaranteed, completely safe against anything, and it’s +13 on block. I wish she could combo from it tho, but guaranteed pressure is still good.

Seeking Sai is awful. Just straight-up, no nonsense awful. It is ludicrously slow on start-up, you cannot combo into it to set up the Gutted KB reliably, anyone who has seen it ONCE is just going to block it, and to top it all off doesn’t track enough to hit some characters when they dash. Sai OKI could have had potential but its tracking is so bad it fails to hit wake-up rolls, it is telegraphed as hell so people can just stand up and block it, and does not give enough of an advantage to give you much pressure. Dive Kick’s only up-side is that it is a generic teleport, but it does not fit anywhere in her kit. It is again – horrendously slow on start-up, full punish if blocked, you canot combo in to it, and outside of the VERY specific instance of hitting a jumping opponent in the corner does not lead to a combo either. I am be pretty comfortable calling it probably the worst teleport in the game.

She doesn’t have to work about breakaway since she doesn’t launch (good and bad lol). Fan fare has the combo ability, and even then, it’s not that great imo.

I know I’m probably coming off as a bit of a grinch here and I apologize but come on man, I cannot believe you’re trying to make this point. Kitana’s damage is already pretty middling, she has almost no meter-burn options add damage and Highborn SLAM DUNKS that already average starting point straight into the bin. Losing Fan Lift CRIPPLES your damage and reduces your mid-screen to “String -> Special Cancel | I’m playing an NRS game Tutorial” level. Worse is that while Edenian Razor’s has potential for big damage, it’s actually difficult to combo into in a match setting. It only combos mid-screen after a PERFECTLY timed cross-up J3/4, and similarly in the corner only combos off of opponents in juggle state which limits you to J3/4, B34, J2 KB, and specific anti-airs. Even then it doesn’t even add much damage compared with regular Fan Lift combos!

but it makes up for it with a better zoning, counterzoning and pressure game.

Sai is a sub-par projectile that you will struggle to hit any reasonable player with, on the pressure front meter-burning cancels doesn’t give you many more options outside of maybe catching opponents in the odd grab. Kitana doesn’t have the string variation to play an in-your-face pressure game and everything from Half Blood stance is full-punish on block so you can’t fake people out with it. On the counter-zoning front I think even with their flaws as they are, the combination of Fan Flutter + Royal Protection gives you more compelling tools to deal with certain zoners without the big Red Elephant in the room of cutting your damage in half for a wildly unsafe teleport and below-average second projectile.

I want to apologize if I have come across as rude anywhere in this rant but I really do believe pushing people to Highborn in its current state is bordering on misleading people. Half Blood Stance 100% feels like it was designed for a variation that uses Fan-Nado and without it feels like an unfinished move. It allows you to combo into Seeking Sai for reliable Gutted KB, and allows Enhanced Dive Kick to replace JK in some corner combos for better scaling / damage.

 

[MK-Gray]

Good to know. I suppose he needs it in the spirit of fairness since Kitana can make the third kick of his f3333 string whiff despite it being a mid — as long as you crouch block the entire thing from from a distance NOT right next to Liu Kang. The whiff allows you to punish with b14 which you can’t do otherwise.

Not sure if that's a fair call. F3333 is un-safe to begin with and punishable by the entire cast if blocked, it's basically his only string that is since it's a big damage combo starter. We're talking about Kitana's pretty much only good neutral tool, this on top of the fact that people are starting to catch on to the fact that jumping dumps on B231 is pretty shaky.

I’m not home to test things right now, but in regards to this new Liu Kang parrying B231 thing, couldn’t you just cancel into lift before the final two hits (right after the low) to catch him attempting to parry? Lift is considered a ranged attack IIRC...

You could, but you risk him just blocking the string like normal since it's still at -5 and getting full-punished after any special you cancel into since you probably can't hit-confirm that early and basically have to hard-read that he's going to parry you. Any hard read that can be full-punished if wrong is to be used exceedingly sparingly I think.

 

[Rozalin1780]

You could, but you risk him just blocking the string like normal since it's still at -5 and getting full-punished after any special you cancel into since you probably can't hit-confirm that early and basically have to hard-read that he's going to parry you. Any hard read that can be full-punished if wrong is to be used exceedingly sparingly I think.

Of course. But I feel it’s worth noting that the Twitter post linked is making the claim that the b231 string is “useless” versus Liu Kang. If it were a hard counter, I’d agree. But turning the use of B231 into a mind game doesn’t make it quote “useless”. If you know that he knows he can parry it, and you then punish his second parry with lift, he now knows that you know you can counter it. See what I’m saying?

 

[MK-Gray]

Of course. But I feel it’s worth noting that the Twitter post linked is making the claim that the b231 string is “useless” versus Liu Kang. If it were a hard counter, I’d agree. But turning the use of B231 into a mind game doesn’t make it quote “useless”. If you know that he knows he can parry it, and you then punish his second parry with lift, he now knows that you know you can counter it. See what I’m saying?

Oh I do and I agree. My post was just coming at the new information from the following perspective - This is Kitana's go-to neutral tool as it's one of her only quality strings and we are slowly beginning to learn that there are holes in its effectiveness we didn't expect. It's still a great string and there's no way I'm going to stop using it. I gotta say I'd also have to give it up if a Liu Kang parried that hit against me in a match, seems mad good.

 

[John_NX]

I feel like if this kitana we have right now was replaced by the MKX one it would be perfect. Why? In my opinion kitana was never really suited for MKX, yes she was viable but she was just too...not mkxish. However, I feel like she would thrive in this game with her old moveset. Her old F22 would make her great in the neutral along with her old fanlift as well. Her old fan combos and air control would make her great. She would have only a low launcher but a knockdown OH like many characters have in this game (look at skarlet). It's sad that we are stuck with a character, whose main gameplay is B231.

 

[DarkSado]

Hello guys! I wanted to make this post because it’s really game changing... most of you have most likely already noticed that the 4th hit of b231 whiffs sometimes.

Ok.... so Liu Kang can block the string and it will whiff EVERY SINGLE TIME! And not just that... he can always punish with his parry.
Proof video:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1126578067902742528

He is the only character in the game that makes this hit whiff every time AND can punish it.
I will make more videos today or tomorrow because some characters can make this happen by blocking low the whole string (which are the characters that will be able to take advantage of this the most), some can make it whiff by blocking b2 high and then low but this is not as useful imo

However... 70% of the cast can pretty much option select fatal blow against it if they have it available, this is good since it’s really random against some characters so it’s not useful for them to try and make it whiff every time. As I said, you can option select a fatal blow so if the move happens to randomly whiff the fatal blow will come out and if it doesn’t then you can just block.

I heard that a lot of moves whiff on lui and johnny cage because of there ducking hitboxes.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I am going to respectfully disagree with you here. At the risk of coming off a little mean-spirited I utterly and categorically think you are wrong on this particular point. There is a very good reason no competitive player worth their salt has touched Highborn, it just has way too much bogging it down and its variation equips do not have any synergy with each other.


Except there is no mind-game at play here. Not only do you have to spend meter on it but Kitana has very few tools to play with during pressure. She has no mix-ups, one or two strings that stagger effectively, and isn’t positive on much so can’t set up frame-traps or jail people into dealing with a follow-up string. Her entire game is using her very good walk speed, quality advancing mid in B231, ambiguous forward jump, and Fan Flutter to fish for whiffs and do footsies. She’s a tried and true “plays the neutral game” character right now.


Seeking Sai is awful. Just straight-up, no nonsense awful. It is ludicrously slow on start-up, you cannot combo into it to set up the Gutted KB reliably, anyone who has seen it ONCE is just going to block it, and to top it all off doesn’t track enough to hit some characters when they dash. Sai OKI could have had potential but its tracking is so bad it fails to hit wake-up rolls, it is telegraphed as hell so people can just stand up and block it, and does not give enough of an advantage to give you much pressure. Dive Kick’s only up-side is that it is a generic teleport, but it does not fit anywhere in her kit. It is again – horrendously slow on start-up, full punish if blocked, you canot combo in to it, and outside of the VERY specific instance of hitting a jumping opponent in the corner does not lead to a combo either. I am be pretty comfortable calling it probably the worst teleport in the game.


I know I’m probably coming off as a bit of a grinch here and I apologize but come on man, I cannot believe you’re trying to make this point. Kitana’s damage is already pretty middling, she has almost no meter-burn options add damage and Highborn SLAM DUNKS that already average starting point straight into the bin. Losing Fan Lift CRIPPLES your damage and reduces your mid-screen to “String -> Special Cancel | I’m playing an NRS game Tutorial” level. Worse is that while Edenian Razor’s has potential for big damage, it’s actually difficult to combo into in a match setting. It only combos mid-screen after a PERFECTLY timed cross-up J3/4, and similarly in the corner only combos off of opponents in juggle state which limits you to J3/4, B34, J2 KB, and specific anti-airs. Even then it doesn’t even add much damage compared with regular Fan Lift combos!


Sai is a sub-par projectile that you will struggle to hit any reasonable player with, on the pressure front meter-burning cancels doesn’t give you many more options outside of maybe catching opponents in the odd grab. Kitana doesn’t have the string variation to play an in-your-face pressure game and everything from Half Blood stance is full-punish on block so you can’t fake people out with it. On the counter-zoning front I think even with their flaws as they are, the combination of Fan Flutter + Royal Protection gives you more compelling tools to deal with certain zoners without the big Red Elephant in the room of cutting your damage in half for a wildly unsafe teleport and below-average second projectile.

I want to apologize if I have come across as rude anywhere in this rant but I really do believe pushing people to Highborn in its current state is bordering on misleading people. Half Blood Stance 100% feels like it was designed for a variation that uses Fan-Nado and without it feels like an unfinished move. It allows you to combo into Seeking Sai for reliable Gutted KB, and allows Enhanced Dive Kick to replace JK in some corner combos for better scaling / damage.

No you’re fine. Didn’t come off as rude. It’s your opinion and you can have it. I respect it, but I respectfully disagree with what you’re saying as well. But I am real enough to admit I may be biased due to the point I do much better with this variation than fan fare, so that could be my agenda to pushing highborn

 

[MK-Gray]

No you’re fine. Didn’t come off as rude. It’s your opinion and you can have it. I respect it, but I respectfully disagree with what you’re saying as well.

So you really think it's worth giving up half your mid-screen damage, half your corner damage outside of pop-up openers, all your corner carry, and the utility of Fan Flutter, for the Half Blood Stance Seeking Sai, Dive Kick, and ability to cancel? The mind-games point really stood out to me, what's there to play mind-games with when Kitana only has one great neutral tool and you've given up all your damage anyway?

But I am real enough to admit I may be biased due to the point I do much better with this variation than fan fare, so that could be my agenda to pushing highborn.

You know what, respect, you're right. Maybe I'm a little too hard on the variation. I just spent a lot of time with it in the lab and in matches and it's clear that whatever HFB is designed to do - it currently doesn't fill that niche very well. I mentioned in my first reply that HFB goes from barely usable to a good, core part of her move-set with even a simple tweak like Fan-Nado instead of Edenian Razors so I'm looking forward to see what changes are in store for the tournament variations. I REALLY think she needs something like Fan Flutter / Ground Game as freebies though as her kit is a little bare-bones even compared to simple fighters like Baraka and Kabal since she doesn't have as many good strings as they do.

 

[DarksydeDash]

@xKhaoTik

Bro, have you gotten a chance to play the Sub MU? Both variations are super rough but I feel the slide makes it a possible 7-3. Early games of course, but that slide is even fast enough to avoid homing said and even punish us for trying it in neutral.

 

[xKhaoTik]

@xKhaoTik

Bro, have you gotten a chance to play the Sub MU? Both variations are super rough but I feel the slide makes it a possible 7-3. Early games of course, but that slide is even fast enough to avoid homing said and even punish us for trying it in neutral.

Yea I’ve played sub. He can burn in Hell. Erron too.

Both variations are useless against them

 

[DarksydeDash]

Yea I’ve played sub. He can burn in Hell. Erron too.

Both variations are useless against them

On this, we agree.

 

[Rozalin1780]

Sub Zero is a nightmare for her. Kitana’s whole gameplan is footsies and punishing and Sub Zero gives the finger to both. F24 is the ONLY normal or string that she can punish on block. Unless, you count his two hop attacks (not that he uses or needs them) but even there his hop 1 is the only one in the game I’ve found (so far) that Kitana cannot punish with at least 12.

And the downplay of that character is unreal. Like, holy shit...

 

[MK-Gray]

Sub Zero is a nightmare for her. Kitana’s whole gameplan is footsies and punishing and Sub Zero gives the finger to both. F24 is the ONLY normal or string that she can punish on block. Unless, you count his two hop attacks (not that he uses or needs them) but even there his hop 1 is the only one in the game I’ve found (so far) that Kitana cannot punish with at least 12.

And the downplay of that character is unreal. Like, holy shit...

I think most people agree old Sub is close to top tier if not too tier himself, I guess he just feels a little more low-key compared to the others. It's obvious what makes him good and it's pretty straight-forward, which as strange as it sounds feels way better to lose to than outliers like Sonya. Sonya, the great mix-up blow you up every touch character who just happens to have one of the best fireballs in the game as well so comes packaged with the very tools needed to dump on her counterplay for some reason.

 

[Rozalin1780]

Not sure if this is known or not but figured I'd share; while messing around in the lab, I found that Liu Kang's teleport options can all be D2'ed on reaction if you get the timing correct. I just look for the "flames" at Liu Kang's current location to fully disappear and then d2 at that exact moment. If you're too early, you whiff because you're facing the wrong direction. Too late, and the overhead connects while the low low-profiles the d2. The timing is strict, but universal across all options.

 

[exflyingbooty]

Honestly, she needs buffs to even contend with the top tiers. b+1/b+2 are good but we can't just fucking play an entire game with just those two strings. There is literally no point to playing this character.

Kabal/Liu Kang/Jade and cassie basically do what she does but better. I actually prefer mkx vanilla to this because when we at least got a fucking hit in, it hurt. Now her damage is mediocre. She doesn't have anything scary at all.

 

[honk]

I really have no idea what NRS is planning with kitana or what is their idea.
I do love kitana and since MK2 she is my main.

But that is not kitana. Yes I know. NRS intention is to change gameplay and therefore we dont should compare kitana from previous versions and even if I try to see kitana as a new char and compare her with the current roster... I dont see any points where she is better or even equal.

Gimme one thing where kitana shines?

Not to mention she is not fun to play at all for all people who know the old fashioned kitana

 

[DarkSado]

I really have no idea what NRS is planning with kitana or what is their idea.
I do love kitana and since MK2 she is my main.

But that is not kitana. Yes I know. NRS intention is to change gameplay and therefore we dont should compare kitana from previous versions and even if I try to see kitana as a new char and compare her with the current roster... I dont see any points where she is better or even equal.

Gimme one thing where kitana shines?

Not to mention she is not fun to play at all for all people who know the old fashioned kitana

She have a lot of safe mids.

 

[DarkSado]

Honestly, she needs buffs to even contend with the top tiers. b+1/b+2 are good but we can't just fucking play an entire game with just those two strings. There is literally no point to playing this character.

Kabal/Liu Kang/Jade and cassie basically do what she does but better. I actually prefer mkx vanilla to this because when we at least got a fucking hit in, it hurt. Now her damage is mediocre. She doesn't have anything scary at all.

Mkx vanilla was awful don’t even compare to this Kitana a least she safes and have more than one string lol