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Kitana General Discussion

MK-Gray

Do you even (fan) lift?
I hate to be all doom and gloom but every day I play her tournament variations I edge closer and closer to confirming that Kitana's entire game is currently pinned on the fact that her B231 string is 'quite' good. Not top-tier mind you, playing Geras, Baraka, or Scorpion gives you a handle on what a top tier fast, safe, advancing, hit-confirming mid looks like, it's just 'quite' good.

We talk about how safe she is on "everything", but in reality isn't it that she only has 1 or 2 viable strings in neutral and they are safe? I know this is a game where the better player often wins due to how fundamental everything is, but with average fireballs, no mix-ups, limited offensive MB options, and average damage things are starting to add up.

I am playing my alts more and more because they just feel so much more involved and dare I say FUN than having to rely on B231 spacing and punishes almost exclusively.
 

MK-Gray

Do you even (fan) lift?
I’ve been saying this for weeks.
I know the sentiment has been around a while, I think it was more everyone getting a handle on the whole cast before solidifying the fact. It's a shame, even while doing alright with her. I suppose we should be thankful she's not Shao Khan / Kung Lao / D'vorrah tier...
 

DavesHotnJuicy

jmack_215
She’s missing her air control. 90% of the characters in this game have some form of air control or air mobility.

Kitana is known for it and they took it away from her for the most part. If she FORCED people to stay on the ground she’d honestly be a completely different character.
Yoooo I was saying the same fucking thing like why does Sonya have an air projectile? How come Kabal is able to convert off of his projectile (correct me if I’m wrong, I remember seeing some combos not sure if it was tournament variation) Liu Kang can convert full screen from a fire ball with a flying kick. It makes no sense smh
 

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
I concur that she plays quite well. Despite my post highlighting a few of her issues I have been having moderate success with her and she’s far from Shao Khan tier, she’s also not like Kung Lao in that she is not just a worse version of another character..

'Honest' is exactly the right diagnosis. She is fine - but being honest in the current state of the game where the upper-echelon of character strength is defined by true 50/50s, crazy mix-ups, and 40%+ single meter hit-confirms just does not count for all that much.



This is where we differ in opinion slightly. We remain in agreement that she is largely fine at the moment and you can make her work. It is however my opinion that Kitana has lost a bit of her defining spark in MK11. Without her strong zoning game or impressive combo extensions Kitana has been left as a functional but middling character with some quality strings that are moderately safe and offer good hit-confirms, but not much else. Even Fan Flutter and Air Fan do not give her air-game enough “umph” to feel like a defining part of the character.

I am actually at a bit of a loss as to what direction MK11 Kitana is supposed to focused. It certainly is not air game or zoning, nor corner carry or mid-screen combo extensions. I thought for a little while it may have been corner damage with Edenian Razor shenanigans but even a cursory glance at most of the rosters corner damage rules that out as well.

I will re-iterate that she is far from bottom of the barrel right now and again – she has the tools to function in the current state of the game. It just feel like she is missing something right now and it will take either some pretty hefty balance tweaks or a big shake-up of her tournament variations to change that.

She plays neutral heavy game and demands good neutral play.
She has very clean tools - minimal or no dirt at all.

That's a big plus to me and I really want to play with her well but it is pretty demanding and not that easy.
Unfortunately I can get better neutral/footsies play with other characters - it is probably just me - or that characters have simply better buttons/tools. I probably do not fit into Kitana's playstyle or just not figured how to play efficiently with her.

I will follow semiij play regardless of my current pick. I am wondering if he will stick to Kitana in the future. He can play strong neutral to make work her.

Match up question: What do you think about Shao Kahn's match up? Yesterday I played around 50 matches against my friend and I really struggled in neutral. I know my mistakes but in general I did not really feel her spacing power against him.
I am just curious if it is an easy match up just need to be better or what. :)
 
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What if they add a KB on fan Toss that allows for full juggle extension like the old fan Toss used to? That way once a match u get to actually style a bit, and ppl would have a reason to fear fans.

Not sure what the requirements could be tho.
 

Elias6999

Mournful Master
What if they add a KB on fan Toss that allows for full juggle extension like the old fan Toss used to? That way once a match u get to actually style a bit, and ppl would have a reason to fear fans.

Not sure what the requirements could be tho.
Hitting an air fan on a jumping opponent I suppose.
 

chrisisnice

I'm a lover, not a fighter
I'm just not really excited by her yet. I have not felt like this since Deadly Alliance which I hardly played for this reason. As a lot of us have said, she does not feel like Kitana. I seriously hope NRS addresses this (though I would doubt it). It is not quite that dire, but it does feel like you are playing another character, where all others have some sort of consistency with previous versions

Seriously.... if they made a new official variation with low fan, Fan Nado and ground war with fan conversions and I would probably pee myself and say funnest Kitana ever.
 

Shale101

Mortal
I agree with many here. She doesn't feel like Kitana and she doesn't feel fun. I was excited when I saw the Kombat cast that they said she was still a zoner. By what standards i wonder? Her projectile is as basic as most.....wouldn't say its one of the best or worst. It's a high so its easily ducked and other characters can zone her out easily. It just doesn't make sense. Her fans can't combo and she isn't an air controller anymore so she feels blahhh to me. In MKX i loved doing instant air fans and making the opponent scared to jump. She doesn't play that way anymore and doesn't feel like kitana. She isn't my play style anymore......i've fond myself using Jade. Royal protection is garbage and I miss sharpen. I also miss Assassin Strike. In MKX I mastered the float and it was so useful. I was so elated to see it back but I guess i'm just not good enough at it yet or its just not as good as before......
 
Just Edenian Twist instead of Royal Protection will makes easier to play this game with her I think.
But still useless AMP.... useless Sai variation... terrible Fan toss and even its not her style.
 
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Still enjoying her but I am a bit confused by Seeking Sai still.

That I can't kombo off it on hit without a juggle is a bit weird to me. Feels like it doesn't have much of a different effect on hit vs block- except for contributing to the gutted KB which is a pipe dream in most matches since it requires my opponent to eat this 100+ frame projectile three times.

I'm getting good mileage off Sai cancels with her b2 series now though so I don't want to give that up.

Definitely feels like her KB conditions for flying booty only make sense in the context of the variation where she can for it grounded. Otherwise its just not happening unless Im playing someone with a specifically grounded projectile that I can short hop
 

MK-Gray

Do you even (fan) lift?
Still enjoying her but I am a bit confused by Seeking Sai still.

That I can't kombo off it on hit without a juggle is a bit weird to me. Feels like it doesn't have much of a different effect on hit vs block- except for contributing to the gutted KB which is a pipe dream in most matches since it requires my opponent to eat this 100+ frame projectile three times.

I'm getting good mileage off Sai cancels with her b2 series now though so I don't want to give that up.

Definitely feels like her KB conditions for flying booty only make sense in the context of the variation where she can for it grounded. Otherwise its just not happening unless Im playing someone with a specifically grounded projectile that I can short hop
Not to be that guy but as it currently stands using the Highborn variation is just a exercise in futility since it's so hard to make Half Blood stance work with her base kit. It's just purposefully gimping yourself and she's already not particularly great so I'd avoid it like the plague.

Losing Fan Lift and Ground War also hurts the variation because Gutted is just slow enough on start-up to not be a good same-side combo finisher and mid-screen damage is absolutely awful without Fan Lift. Corner damage doesn't even really make up for it either as Kitana lacks a traditional pop-up string so you have to rely on J3/4 or B34 in the corner to get people in a juggle state. It's just a mess.

I keep going back to the point that I think the Tournament Variations were designed either at random, or without any care / thought at all. Half Blood stance becomes usable with Fan-Nado for example and allows combo'ing into both Seeking Sai and Dive Kick.

I've soft-shelved the character while waiting for balance changes or a variation update. She has some really interesting stuff in custom load-outs, but the base kit almost feels unfinished. She is designed like she doesn't have the day one Fan nerf, but they nerfed fans and didn't change anything else about her so everything feels off.
 

XxTheGoblinX

Le_Supreme_
She plays neutral heavy game and demands good neutral play.
She has very clean tools - minimal or no dirt at all.

That's a big plus to me and I really want to play with her well but it is pretty demanding and not that easy.
Unfortunately I can get better neutral/footsies play with other characters - it is probably just me - or that characters have simply better buttons/tools. I probably do not fit into Kitana's playstyle or just not figured how to play efficiently with her.

I will follow semiij play regardless of my current pick. I am wondering if he will stick to Kitana in the future. He can play strong neutral to make work her.

Match up question: What do you think about Shao Kahn's match up? Yesterday I played around 50 matches against my friend and I really struggled in neutral. I know my mistakes but in general I did not really feel her spacing power against him.
I am just curious if it is an easy match up just need to be better or what. :)
I main Shao Kahn and from my side of the matchup. I feel like its a real fair game with heavy emphasis on neutral. I have to play real patient against a good Kitana and usually whoever makes the better reads and plays solid wins.
 

MK-Gray

Do you even (fan) lift?
She plays neutral heavy game and demands good neutral play.
She has very clean tools - minimal or no dirt at all.

That's a big plus to me and I really want to play with her well but it is pretty demanding and not that easy.
Unfortunately I can get better neutral/footsies play with other characters - it is probably just me - or that characters have simply better buttons/tools. I probably do not fit into Kitana's playstyle or just not figured how to play efficiently with her.

I will follow semiij play regardless of my current pick. I am wondering if he will stick to Kitana in the future. He can play strong neutral to make work her.

Match up question: What do you think about Shao Kahn's match up? Yesterday I played around 50 matches against my friend and I really struggled in neutral. I know my mistakes but in general I did not really feel her spacing power against him.
I am just curious if it is an easy match up just need to be better or what. :)
I agree that it will be interesting to see if Semiij sticks with her in the long run. He could potentially be playing the long-con banking on some good tweaks or tournament variation changes but I'm not holding my breath. He’s a great player and if you re-watch some of his sets he really puts emphasis on how reliant Kitana is on B231 for any of her game-plan.

She has no dirt in her kit sure, but part of that is because her kit has very little in it period. She has a couple of good footsie tools and a nice, safe, advancing mid that leads into a low-profile low in the form of B231 which is what a number of the worse-off characters would kill for, but not much more than that. Average projectile, no mix-up, average (sigh) air-game, respectable walk speed though.

I’m with you in that I enjoy good neutral and clean, no dirt play - but remember this is a game where members of the roster have true 50/50s. Not good mix-ups, but tried and true, un-seeable, guess wrong and you lose 30% 50/50s. All on top of stuff like Jax’s D1 -> Command Grab tic-throw, Scorpion's meter-burn on block teleport that makes punishes have to be reconsidered, Erron’s full-screen projectile shut-down + mid-screen 50/50 he can meter-burn to make safe etc.

In a game like this having a good advancing mid is the bare-minimum a character requires to not be straight-up smoked in some matches.

I main Shao Kahn and from my side of the matchup. I feel like its a real fair game with heavy emphasis on neutral. I have to play real patient against a good Kitana and usually whoever makes the better reads and plays solid wins.
Adding to this with experience from both sides (though much more Kitana admittedly) Kitana is one of the currently honest characters that has slight favor against Shao Khan in my opinion.

My experience with Shao Khan is that he suffers a little against characters with the all too important advancing mid, as well as characters that can get up in his face and poke at him with strings that aren't TOO negative, which happens to be sort of exactly where Kitana fits.

He also has to take extra caution of the low profile of the 3 in Kitana's B231 since he really wants his opponents to be standing up so he can use his great Highs. On another note I actually think Shao might win the full-screen "throw shit at each other" range since his spear is crazy + on-hit and trades great with high projectiles, which is what Kitana is limited to with her current variations.
 

XxTheGoblinX

Le_Supreme_
I agree that it will be interesting to see if Semiij sticks with her in the long run. He could potentially be playing the long-con banking on some good tweaks or tournament variation changes but I'm not holding my breath. He’s a great player and if you re-watch some of his sets he really puts emphasis on how reliant Kitana is on B231 for any of her game-plan.

She has no dirt in her kit sure, but part of that is because her kit has very little in it period. She has a couple of good footsie tools and a nice, safe, advancing mid that leads into a low-profile low in the form of B231 which is what a number of the worse-off characters would kill for, but not much more than that. Average projectile, no mix-up, average (sigh) air-game, respectable walk speed though.

I’m with you in that I enjoy good neutral and clean, no dirt play - but remember this is a game where members of the roster have true 50/50s. Not good mix-ups, but tried and true, un-seeable, guess wrong and you lose 30% 50/50s. All on top of stuff like Jax’s D1 -> Command Grab tic-throw, Scorpion's meter-burn on block teleport that makes punishes have to be reconsidered, Erron’s full-screen projectile shut-down + mid-screen 50/50 he can meter-burn to make safe etc.

In a game like this having a good advancing mid is the bare-minimum a character requires to not be straight-up smoked in some matches.


Adding to this with experience from both sides (though much more Kitana admittedly) Kitana is one of the currently honest characters that has slight favor against Shao Khan in my opinion.

My experience with Shao Khan is that he suffers a little against characters with the all too important advancing mid, as well as characters that can get up in his face and poke at him with strings that aren't TOO negative, which happens to be sort of exactly where Kitana fits.

He also has to take extra caution of the low profile of the 3 in Kitana's B231 since he really wants his opponents to be standing up so he can use his great Highs. On another note I actually think Shao might win the full-screen "throw shit at each other" range since his spear is crazy + on-hit and trades great with high projectiles, which is what Kitana is limited to with her current variations.
True, but if Kitana throws out that advancing string at the wrong time Kahn can use his 13 frame B3 or BF3(Shoulder) and get a full combo for around 28%. The Shoulder also punishes her butt move lol but your right, up close she has a slight advantage but kahn just has to look out for the B231.
 

MK-Gray

Do you even (fan) lift?
True, but if Kitana throws out that advancing string at the wrong time Kahn can use his 13 frame B3 or BF3(Shoulder) and get a full combo for around 28%. The Shoulder also punishes her butt move lol but your right, up close she has a slight advantage but kahn just has to look out for the B231.
Maybe I didn't make that clear. I consider B231 her main advancing string as it includes forward movement, hit-confirm-able, all the good stuff. I actually quite like Khan, I just wish he had a better mid to round out his options in neutral.

look out for the B231
Haha, I feel like this could be the universal answer to "how do you handle the Kitana match-up" in the current game-state.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Is it me or does the opponent jumping seem really hard to stop. Like if I mistime the B231 it leads to the other hits whiffing and me eating a full combo as my opponent gets up.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Is it me or does the opponent jumping seem really hard to stop. Like if I mistime the B231 it leads to the other hits whiffing and me eating a full combo as my opponent gets up.
Yeah! That’s the downside of b231.

I honestly just rather do b2 at certain circumstances like after a d4 on hit for example, therefore if they get hit by b2 I can do 12~lift or d1~flying booty, she is at a good position on block after b2 so it’s kind of a way to at least stop jumping.

I’ve literally played people who jump on purpose to o make me miss my string and handle me a full combo lol... no ma’am
 

MK-Gray

Do you even (fan) lift?
I’ve literally played people who jump on purpose to o make me miss my string and handle me a full combo lol... no ma’am
I feel like B231 is Kitana's great footsie / neutral tool that was designed with jump weakness in mind so Kitana could play air-to-air games with the rest of her kit, but they just forgot to add the air-to-air part in or something...
 

TaserFace007

Apprentice
Has anyone been able to get any use at all out of the Mileena variation? For myself, the half blood stance seems completely gimpy and useless as a stance, especially compared to the stances which other characters have, and the Edenian Razor is about eight times worse than the regular fan lift which it replaces - it's about exactly the same in the corner and doesn't work at all mid-screen. Given that she doesn't have much in the way of corner carry ability, that makes it pointless.

Is it just me and I'm doing something wrong or is it as garbage as I think it is? I have some gear and skins to dress my Kitana up as Mileena for the sake of using her stuff, but it just doesn't seem useful at all.
 

hatyr

ball roll enjoyer.
Is it me or does the opponent jumping seem really hard to stop. Like if I mistime the B231 it leads to the other hits whiffing and me eating a full combo as my opponent gets up.
This is the harshest reality for me right now.
 
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xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Has anyone been able to get any use at all out of the Mileena variation? For myself, the half blood stance seems completely gimpy and useless as a stance, especially compared to the stances which other characters have, and the Edenian Razor is about eight times worse than the regular fan lift which it replaces - it's about exactly the same in the corner and doesn't work at all mid-screen. Given that she doesn't have much in the way of corner carry ability, that makes it pointless.

Is it just me and I'm doing something wrong or is it as garbage as I think it is? I have some gear and skins to dress my Kitana up as Mileena for the sake of using her stuff, but it just doesn't seem useful at all.
It’s better than Fan Fare imo. Damage sucks, I agree, but it does everything else fan fare does but better.

Take all the strings she has and how you would play with it in fan fare, then add in the sai cancels for mind games. Her “zoning” actually becomes better since sai tracks. Her teleport is a MUCH better option against zoning when compared to the shitty royal protection. She doesn’t have to work about breakaway since she doesn’t launch (good and bad lol). Edenian razors are a good AA when you read a jump, and the pressure you can get from it in the corner can really be detrimental since it can go up to +10 on block, and it’s safe regardless. Sai on oki is really good as well since it’s guaranteed, completely safe against anything, and it’s +13 on block. I wish she could combo from it tho, but guaranteed pressure is still good.

Fan fare has the combo ability, and even then, it’s not that great imo. Highborn doesn’t have the combo ability (unless you miraculously land a gutted KB), but it makes up for it with a better zoning, counterzoning and pressure game.