Match-up Discussion Killer Frost In-Depth Analysis for Match-Ups

[16 Bit]

BTW I played m2dave in the Hawkgirl vs. Killer Frost MU a little at UFGT. For some reason Dave playing Hawkgirl is insanely funny but regardless we ran the match. He did better with HG than DS but I am not convinced it's a bad MU for KF. It's a super irritating MU though. Flying away and tossing maces doesn't actually DO anything. KF would get hit a million times trying to knock her out of the sky but one series of resets can end the round. Hard to say though, we both could be better in the mu. I was doing a mediocre job punishing her torpedo with neutral jump and mb b+3 and didn't even try to punish a blocked dive kick. I have to look into that more.

 

[Konqrr]

BTW I played m2dave in the Hawkgirl vs. Killer Frost MU a little at UFGT. For some reason Dave playing Hawkgirl is insanely funny but regardless we ran the match. He did better with HG than DS but I am not convinced it's a bad MU for KF. It's a super irritating MU though. Flying away and tossing maces doesn't actually DO anything. KF would get hit a million times trying to knock her out of the sky but one series of resets can end the round. Hard to say though, we both could be better in the mu. I was doing a mediocre job punishing her torpedo with neutral jump and mb b+3 and didn't even try to punish a blocked dive kick. I have to look into that more.

I've only played it twice online and I literally could not touch them. <3 online ;_;

 

[RiBBz22]

BTW I played m2dave in the Hawkgirl vs. Killer Frost MU a little at UFGT. For some reason Dave playing Hawkgirl is insanely funny but regardless we ran the match. He did better with HG than DS but I am not convinced it's a bad MU for KF. It's a super irritating MU though. Flying away and tossing maces doesn't actually DO anything. KF would get hit a million times trying to knock her out of the sky but one series of resets can end the round. Hard to say though, we both could be better in the mu. I was doing a mediocre job punishing her torpedo with neutral jump and mb b+3 and didn't even try to punish a blocked dive kick. I have to look into that more.

I totally agree the MU is irritating, and that once you get to her the round can be over extremely quickly. Keep in mind this was a 2-day m2dave Hawkgirl. In any case, it makes no sense to quote a matchup number without fully exploring it...so that was why I was saying that HG could potentially be her only other bad MU. I think at this point anything aside from BA and HG are likely 5-5 and much better. I felt like a scumbag after my set with Pig's Sinestro. That MU seems to be 7-3 at the very worst for Frost even after the buffs which at least help get her off him a little.

 

[Rickyraws]

I totally agree the MU is irritating, and that once you get to her the round can be over extremely quickly. Keep in mind this was a 2-day m2dave Hawkgirl. In any case, it makes no sense to quote a matchup number without fully exploring it...so that was why I was saying that HG could potentially be her only other bad MU. I think at this point anything aside from BA and HG are likely 5-5 and much better. I felt like a scumbag after my set with Pig's Sinestro. That MU seems to be 7-3 at the very worst for Frost even after the buffs which at least help get her off him a little.

This would explain why Pig has been ducking me, after showing eagerness prior to learning my main...

 

[xKhaoTik]

Yea frost vs sinestro is pretty bad for sinestro lol. It gets really annoying when he has trait out tho. A sinestro who has mastered his trait shit can be scary, but aside from that, it's in her favor.

 

[RiBBz22]

Yea frost vs sinestro is pretty bad for sinestro lol. It gets really annoying when he has trait out tho. A sinestro who has mastered his trait shit can be scary, but aside from that, it's in her favor.

Yep, trait changes everything, but he needs 12 shots at a time to win this match up.

 

[M2Dave]

I totally agree the MU is irritating, and that once you get to her the round can be over extremely quickly. Keep in mind this was a 2-day m2dave Hawkgirl. In any case, it makes no sense to quote a matchup number without fully exploring it...so that was why I was saying that HG could potentially be her only other bad MU. I think at this point anything aside from BA and HG are likely 5-5 and much better. I felt like a scumbag after my set with Pig's Sinestro. That MU seems to be 7-3 at the very worst for Frost even after the buffs which at least help get her off him a little.

I have used Hawkgirl for like a week. She was going to be my anti-Killer Frost at UFGT, but I should have used her in more matches.

I say leave Killer Frost versus Hawgirl as 5:5 at the moment.

Hawgirl is obviously nowhere near as well-rounded as Killer Frost. She is mid tier. Flight just happens to give Killer Frost a difficult time.

 

[RiBBz22]

I have used Hawkgirl for like a week. She was going to be my anti-Killer Frost at UFGT, but I should have used her in more matches.

I say leave Killer Frost versus Hawgirl as 5:5 at the moment.

Hawgirl is obviously nowhere near as well-rounded as Killer Frost. She is mid tier. Flight just happens to give Killer Frost a difficult time.

Yep, like I said the MU is obviously not fully explored and you are new with the character anyways. It is just a case of one character's tools giving a specific character with no air control problems. Bird Hawkgirl.

 

[Konqrr]

More Grundy matchup stuff:

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/ungrab-able-frames.33189/#post-895710

 

[That__John__Guy]

Out of curiosity I checked the Black Adam MU thread in their forum. Apparently a lot of them think KF is a tough MU. Kind of funny if KF players think BA is tough and BA players think KF is tough. I certainly didn't see anyone bragging about how easy KF is there.

 

[Rickyraws]

Brethren: Any advice on the Wonder Woman MU? Namely, her air control? Aerial characters can pose a problem for KF. WWs are usually always crouching to prevent slide, but air dashing can be a mistake as her crouch is also due to getting a d+2 whip AA ready. Crouching to avoid her 33 can make you forget her b+2 overhead. She's definitely got mixups. She can't really zone you, but MB f+3 once you're in to eliminate the guessing game only gets you so far. Her jump whip....think its J2 can't really be AA'd and can put you back in the 33, b+2 mixup. In the air, she can pretty much pressure you safely. I win against WW, but by playing the player, not the character. I could take the easy way out and counterpick Raven, but when push comes to shove comes to 41% meterlesses for guessing wrong.... what would be recommended?

 

[RiBBz22]

Out of curiosity I checked the Black Adam MU thread in their forum. Apparently a lot of them think KF is a tough MU. Kind of funny if KF players think BA is tough and BA players think KF is tough. I certainly didn't see anyone bragging about how easy KF is there.

KF is a handful in any matchup because you constantly have to fear the slide into her combos/resets. I feel like a lot of people don't feel like they have to break down the MU with KF any further than this sometimes. Also, I don't think this is an easy MU for them just an advantage matchup.

 

[Noserfatu]

Need help with nightwing.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Well here I go guys. This is gonna be my first attempt for a MU chart for our bitch. I still need experience in some matches, but I'm confident in a lot of matches.

Aquaman: 6-4
Ares: 6-4
Bane: 7-3 (maybe worse)
Batman: 5-5
Batgirl: 5-5 (maybe 6-4 frost)
Black adam: 4-6
Catwoman: 6-4
Cyborg: need more experience
Deathstroke: 7-3 (maybe 6-4)
Doomsday: 7-3 (maybe 6-4)
Flash: 6-4
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 6-4
Hawkgirl: 4-6 (maybe 5-5)
Joker: 6-4
Lex: 6-4
Lobo: 7-3
Nightwing: 6-4
Raven: 6-4
Shazam: need more experience
Sinestro: 7-3
Grundy: 5-5 (maybe 6-4 frost)
Superman: 5-5 (maybe 6-4 frost)
Wonder Woman: 5-5

 

[Chuckychuck]

Need help with nightwing.

What are you having trouble with? KF wins this one.

 

[RiBBz22]

Well here I go guys. This is gonna be my first attempt for a MU chart for our bitch. I still need experience in some matches, but I'm confident in a lot of matches.

Aquaman: 6-4
Ares: 6-4
Bane: 7-3 (maybe worse)
Batman: 5-5
Batgirl: 5-5 (maybe 6-4 frost)
Black adam: 4-6
Catwoman: 6-4
Cyborg: need more experience
Deathstroke: 7-3 (maybe 6-4)
Doomsday: 7-3 (maybe 6-4)
Flash: 6-4
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 6-4
Hawkgirl: 4-6 (maybe 5-5)
Joker: 6-4
Lex: 6-4
Lobo: 7-3
Nightwing: 6-4
Raven: 6-4
Shazam: need more experience
Sinestro: 7-3
Grundy: 5-5 (maybe 6-4 frost)
Superman: 5-5 (maybe 6-4 frost)
Wonder Woman: 5-5

Honestly I think this is a good start. I think that HG is probably 5-5 but it is REALLY annoying since we have no air control. Can you slide under Cyborgs standing fireball? I think Frost beats Batgirl and Batman 6-4. I think the Doomsday MU is probably 6-4. And Bane might be like 8-2 lol because even good Bane players have felt completely free to me. I have to run now but I just wanted to give a quick two cents on the chart. Overall I think it is really good.

 

[Noserfatu]

What are you having trouble with? KF wins this one.

His mid ranged and close range normals. Plus on block on everything.

 

[Chuckychuck]

His mid ranged and close range normals. Plus on block on everything.

Your options are back dash, parry, push block and armor

 

[16 Bit]

Well here I go guys. This is gonna be my first attempt for a MU chart for our bitch. I still need experience in some matches, but I'm confident in a lot of matches.

Aquaman: 6-4
Ares: 6-4
Bane: 7-3 (maybe worse)
Batman: 5-5
Batgirl: 5-5 (maybe 6-4 frost)
Black adam: 4-6
Catwoman: 6-4
Cyborg: need more experience
Deathstroke: 7-3 (maybe 6-4)
Doomsday: 7-3 (maybe 6-4)
Flash: 6-4
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 6-4
Hawkgirl: 4-6 (maybe 5-5)
Joker: 6-4
Lex: 6-4
Lobo: 7-3
Nightwing: 6-4
Raven: 6-4
Shazam: need more experience
Sinestro: 7-3
Grundy: 5-5 (maybe 6-4 frost)
Superman: 5-5 (maybe 6-4 frost)
Wonder Woman: 5-5

This is pretty good, mostly in line with my thoughts.

Aquaman might be 5-5. He has very good options in the post blocked slide guessing game.

Deathstroke is probably only 6-4. Jump 3 is a problem. DS players will get better at this MU eventually.

 

[Dizz_88]

I hate the hawkgirl match up, very annoying. I agree with this list except I think frost beats green arrow 6-4 and frost loses to superman 4-6. I have been getting better at the supes mu though.

 

[Rickyraws]

I keep hearing how Frost is the Superman Killer. I do well but don't feel like he goes down easily without a fight. At least recently.

Also, some guy on ranked matches (Believe me, I don't take anyone on XBL as a credible source but still) said that at UFGT Paulo confirmed that KF's slide was no longer going to be safe on block.

It could have been the salt talking, because I beat him pretty severely, however his rank, stats, and knowledge of UFGT made me wonder if he wasn't talking out of his nether realm.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I'm expecting slide to be punishable.

 

[Law Hero]

I'm expecting slide to be punishable.

You too? I've already told my salty friends I'm prepared for it.

Even though I love it, I just can't see it NOT becoming punishable. I suppose it's a slightly good/realistic topic for this thread: let's say they make slide punishable on block. Either just by d+1 or even more if you wanna be pessimistic. How do you fellows think this will realistically affect her and her match-ups? She would still have trait cancels into insane frame advantage, but it's tough for me to see her getting in on people without a really high risk of being blown up. Considering you're all intelligent scholarly people with excellent taste in fighting game mains, I really value your thoughts and opinions, and would love to hear what you have to say on the subject.

 

[xKhaoTik]

You too? I've already told my salty friends I'm prepared for it.

Even though I love it, I just can't see it NOT becoming punishable. I suppose it's a slightly good/realistic topic for this thread: let's say they make slide punishable on block. Either just by d+1 or even more if you wanna be pessimistic. How do you fellows think this will realistically affect her and her match-ups? She would still have trait cancels into insane frame advantage, but it's tough for me to see her getting in on people without a really high risk of being blown up. Considering you're all intelligent scholarly people with excellent taste in fighting game mains, I really value your thoughts and opinions, and would love to hear what you have to say on the subject.

I honestly think it wouldnt effect her too much if slide were punishable. It will still be a powerful tool because of the danger that comes behind it.

Let's look at MK, preferably Kabal and Kung Lao. Those two were two of the best characters in the game, yet they had some very punishable, yet powerful specials. Killer frost will be the same way If the slide is nerfed.

If anything, the nerf will just teach the kf players that rely on slide to use it more strategically. It will also teach them to hit confirm it. And of course, it will always be the Yolo move.

 

[Rickyraws]

In the Wonder Woman Forums, they mentioned the best way to face Batman would be back dashing. It avoids his J2, and he has no answer as none of his normals reach, or something blah blah....what I want to know is...is backdashing as effective a tactic for Killer Frost? WW doesn't strike me as having a better back dash than our fair maiden...

Not to mention, if backdashing avoids the j2 completely, you can possibly catch them on the way down with a slide. Slide catches falling opponents every now and then, and even if they made the slide -234545 on whiff/block, that's kind of a foolproof way of catching them, no? At the very least it would make Batman think twice before J2 ing all over the place.