General/Other KILLER FROST - General Discussion Thread

[CommonNick]

Playing around with KF, I read nothing in the forum, so don't bash me.
Is it known that B2 skips above KD opponent, so after a hard KD it can be done to make them wiff their wakeup? (or just reverse the inputs depends on the setup)

 

[Vagrant]

Just a few random side questions.

whats the optimal followup to a succesful mb parry? can you end a mb parry in a mb freeze grab? I dont recall
I'm assuming all trait cancels are obsolete now?
just want to clarify that her d1 is indeed adv on block and thats not a typo?
any chance we can update the parry thread and add trait combos to the combo thread?

 

[RiBBz22]

Just a few random side questions.

whats the optimal followup to a succesful mb parry? can you end a mb parry in a mb freeze grab? I dont recall
I'm assuming all trait cancels are obsolete now?
just want to clarify that her d1 is indeed adv on block and thats not a typo?
any chance we can update the parry thread and add trait combos to the combo thread?

1) Check out the combo thread because yes you can end a MB parry in MB grab (so everything should apply). If I want to keep them in the 50-50 I will end in grab, otherwise I will go for a high meterless combo or one that ends in meterless vortex
2) Trait cancels RIP; There are better options on block that render them pretty useless unless you want to catch people sleeping or bait them to push buttons...Standing 3 gives you enough advantage in the corner to go for another 50-50 but obviously it can be push blocked if they expect it so mix in wisely
3) If you asked me about d1 in person and saw my smile then your questions would be answered. d1 d1 is a frame trap, use it and abuse it.
4) RunwayMafia is heading up a much better parry guide which is in the works now, and ApocaLips is the combo wizard. I honestly don't use trait activation combos in matches. Every now and then I will activate trait when I go for the 50-50 just for an extra damage boost...so I really don't see trait as a huge priority, but if someone wants to update it that is cool too.

 

[Vagrant]

Thanks man.

 

[Sultan]

One of the things I've been experimenting with: db1+3 doubles as a throw tech and parry. Super useful versus Doomsday pressure.

 

[RiBBz22]

One of the things I've been experimenting with: db1+3 doubles as a throw tech and parry. Super useful versus Doomsday pressure.

Yeah this has been gone over a bunch. It doesn't always work as a perfect option select based on when the throw is done and if it is delayed...but it is certainly a way to get some cheap throw techs if you guess wrong on the parry. IMO, you should ALWAYS be ready to tech a throw after a blocked slide.

 

[ApocaLips]

whats the optimal followup to a succesful mb parry? can you end a mb parry in a mb freeze grab? I dont recall

Use the J2 combos in the combo thread after MB parry. Yes, you can MB freeze after MB parry. KF doesn't play by Sub Zero's scrubby rules lol.

 

[ApocaLips]

I don't like anything but the airtight j2 into mixup. Otherwise you open up backdash/super/MB f3/b3 as options.

 

[RiBBz22]

ApocaLips RiBBz22 xKhaoTik Konqrr RunwayMafia Rickyraws

What are you guy's thoughts on implementation of standing 3 outside of the corner? Midscreen a follow up b1 slide will beat corps charge and even flying uppercut so the spacing doesn't seem too detrimental. In the case of corps charge AND flying uppercut, you can standing 3 and still have enough advantage to interrupt, (not trade) f3 with a reversal corps charge and FU. Being mid, ducking or standing opponents can be standing 3'd into mixup, no? Also tried spamming d1 out of it as various characters, which didn't work, the b1 or f3 always beat it when done correctly.I'm guessing though, due to spacing, that it's a matter of character dependency on whether or not it has a good amount of effectiveness. Like all recommendations, would this not be effective to use sparingly/ peppered into our already diverse ways of mixing opponents up, or am I missing something? I ask because I can vividly recall not vividly recalling anyone really doing so.

Personally I only use it SOMETIMES in the corner. I mostly like it because most of the time you can see how they are going to block the 50-50. I don't like when they expect it and push block or sometimes even let it hit (by design or laziness) is really annoying...

Also: Dat self-tag-swag

 

[ApocaLips]

You mean standing 3 in the neutral game? If I think I can keep my opponent sitting still for more than 16 frames, I'm going for an f3 instead. I don't know why you would use standing 3 to set up the same thing you had available if you were able to do the 3 in the first place.

I try to never work in strategies that merely play off of lack of matchup knowledge. Eventually it gets figured out. There are a million ways out of a mixup after standing 3, and you'll likely only get it if your opponent just doesn't know it's +15. They are:
(1) jump backwards
(2) MB f3/b3
(3) backdash unless you slide, then jump backwards 2 gives them a full combo
(4) have you tested walking backwards?
(5) Eat the standing 3 and laugh at KF letting you get far away.

 

[Sultan]

Has anyone discussed the use of u3 as anti-throw tech? If I have a read on a throw, say post slide, then u3 can blow that throw attempt up.

 

[Deezxnutz]

Has anyone had issues with MB Freeze not registering? Whenever I try to do it within the F3, U3, U3, 2 Slide, 2 Freeze the Mb version just never comes out whether I mash the button or hold it during the animation. However for whatever reason it comes out consistently whenever I do any other combo or if I just do a raw freeze.

 

[@MylesWright_]

Has anyone had issues with MB Freeze not registering? Whenever I try to do it within the F3, U3, U3, 2 Slide, 2 Freeze the Mb version just never comes out whether I mash the button or hold it during the animation. However for whatever reason it comes out consistently whenever I do any other combo or if I just do a raw freeze.

Make sure you have meter

 

[ApocaLips]

Has anyone had issues with MB Freeze not registering? Whenever I try to do it within the F3, U3, U3, 2 Slide, 2 Freeze the Mb version just never comes out whether I mash the button or hold it during the animation. However for whatever reason it comes out consistently whenever I do any other combo or if I just do a raw freeze.

Yeah, it's the way Injustice handles inputs. If you do another attack-button input, you can't MB the earlier move because the game thinks you're trying to MB the new attack. So if you accidentally hit 2 (standing 2), then dbf 2, then 2 again, then MB, you'll get a normal freeze.

This is why I recommend turning on release check with KF. You can just hit 2 dbf then mash MB, and it'll come out. You don't have to worry about hitting 2 again, potentially stopping your ability to MB the freeze if you press 2 too many times.

 

[Sultan]

On the topic of 2 ~ freeze, I remember seeing posts from people saying they found this difficult because the cancel window's tight. I had the same trouble but I figured out a trick to getting over this:

instead of: 2, d, b, f+2
perform: d, neutral, 2, b, f+2

this is with release check off of course.

 

[RiBBz22]

Great find. Should help some of our brethren. It will also discourage others from using the wretched Release Check on option.

I cannot use release check on with Frost, everything comes out wrong. Just depends on how you execute certain things I guess because Apocalips has always championed it while I would scoff at all of those posts.

 

[Sultan]

I'm seriously considering playing this game with street fighter commands, which would require me to sort of relearn everything execution wise, but at least I won't get a random iceberg instead of a d2 ever again...
Like, I know the problem, I'm accustomed to street fighter so I hold d+b instead of d to block. I know if I just started pressing d in neutral situations then I shouldn't get random icebergs, but it's soo hard to train myself not to hold d+b...

Killer Frost problems.

 

[Justice]

Has anyone had issues with MB Freeze not registering? Whenever I try to do it within the F3, U3, U3, 2 Slide, 2 Freeze the Mb version just never comes out whether I mash the button or hold it during the animation. However for whatever reason it comes out consistently whenever I do any other combo or if I just do a raw freeze.

Keep at it. It might just be a tighter than normal execution window. I'm having the same problems with Catwoman where I'm inputting B3 J3 112 but getting B3 J3 12 (which is a totally different string).

 

[Deezxnutz]

On the topic of 2 ~ freeze, I remember seeing posts from people saying they found this difficult because the cancel window's tight. I had the same trouble but I figured out a trick to getting over this:

instead of: 2, d, b, f+2
perform: d, neutral, 2, b, f+2

this is with release check off of course.

This SIGNIFICANTLY helped me, I highly appreciate the help dude.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

So about how much damage does kf get from a combo into metered vortex and combo into meter less vortex?

 

[xKhaoTik]

Depends on the combo starter. But for practicality, she gets 40% one bar for metered vortex and 37% meterless.


She gets more than that obviously, but that's mainly what she will be getting for the most part .

 

[Sultan]

So what d'you guys think of standing 2?

Of all of Frost's footsie tools this might be her most underrated. I think it has more utility then b1, for sure. The thing about 2 is that, despite it's short-range hitbox, it's very effective and high priority in defensive footsies - it's a little, boxy wall of priority that appears in front of her and recovers quickly on whiff.

Some stuff I've been doing with 2:

-My main usage is just outside of it's range, or just within the opponent's footsie range. In certain match-ups, namely B.Adam's b2 or Superman's f1, a preemptive standing 2 is (imo) a better read than a parry because parry has a long enough recovery that when you guess wrong a good player will blow you the fuck up. In comparison, standing 2 recovers incredibly quickly, to the point that whiff punishing it is rarely intentional.

-Performing 2~slide outside of its range means that Frost will at worst whiff a standing 2, and at best the opponent will move into the 2~slide somehow and activate the cancel (similar to Dudley whiffing s.RH~ex.MGB in 3S)

-When I'm within 2's range I don't attempt to cancel the move or continue the string. If the opponent is hit by 2 then you can hit-confirm into high-low, and if it's blocked you remain close at even frames. I do this in match-ups where a blocked slide is suicide.

-f113, 2 is a strong frame trap option (although tight). If 2 hits you can visually confirm this into a high-low 50/50. If it's blocked you're at even frames. I prefer this to f113, d1~slide because you give up frame advantage if your d1~slide is blocked because you have to commit to the slide. f113,2 is a low-risk, potentially higher (although not guaranteed) reward.

 

[RiBBz22]

Killer Frosts' d1 on block is not a mix-up and people should be able to tell the difference between a d1 into slide and a d1 into a f3 at point blank range



She still wouldn't be the best character in the game

Opponent has to respect d1 slide, they do not have to respect d1 into f3 or MB f3. They also have to respect that you get a d1 for free after a blocked d1 if she chooses to do it unless they have a parry or fast super. Like I said before people get hit by it because they are conditioned to respect low and additional pokes that lead into lows.

 

[@MylesWright_]

Opponent has to respect d1 slide, they do not have to respect d1 into f3 or MB f3. They also have to respect that you get a d1 for free after a blocked d1 if she chooses to do it unless they have a parry or fast super. Like I said before people get hit by it because they are conditioned to respect low and additional pokes that lead into lows.

Conditioned? It's visible if they block d1 then walk back to option select blocking a f3 because they don't want to risk anything, how is a d1 slide opening them up and that's if they're still in d1 range or is d1 into low hitting special unblockable on reaction

 

[RiBBz22]

U make no sense. If you walk back after a d1 to block a f3 you are getting hit by d1 slide. If you respect slide you are blocking low there.

I am going to move this KF discussion stuff into the KF forum in a bit to unclog this thread