Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

[Youphemism]

I just want to say I think we have one of the most solid communities so far, no arguments really and just pure SEX in terms of character and tool discussion let's keep it up guys!

He's right about fuzzy blocking the demons. The low comes it faster and it's easy to fuzzy the demons. No mix up at all

1 frame faster...but with them being 27 and 28 frames respectively I guess I can see how you could just fuzzy on reaction to the demon coming down or something. Doesn't make it a less annoying more punishable mixup though

thats fair, im just explaining my view too . in the end all of this will just help. but before we continue to get into detail, have you tried to fuzzy block his minions on reaction to the startup animation? because that changes so much, like i said above in my reponse to decay.

I have tried, but it's still not a 100% kind of thing. I still get caught out by them sometimes and it sucks that when I run I still get caught by low minion

I can appreciate what you're both saying. Enjoyed the discussion. I'm still not sure what I want to do in the scorp MU if I'm honest. I think it's annoying and just sucks in general.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Outside of oki and mix ups what do you think makes Cutthroat so much better? Is it the long reaching ex blade slice, damage? Just trying to get a handle on where you guys are coming from outside of the rushdown or am I missing it and that is the point?

Damage, safe hitconfirmable meterless launcher in F21(2). The fact your pressure on him becomes scarier and he doesn't have the greatest options out of it. That's just what comes to mind.

I'm sorry if this was mentioned earlier, but how do you guys handle the Cassie MU. I've got blown up by one the past 2 weeks at ranbats

My training partner plays Cassie so I can help you out some. Which variation?

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm sorry if this was mentioned earlier, but how do you guys handle the Cassie MU. I've got blown up by one the past 2 weeks at ranbats

I've been saying for weeks that Scorpion and Spec Ops Cassie are Kano's two worst MU's.

 

[I$AAC]

@Youphemism the Hollywood variation. I haven't played against spec ops yet

 

[kabelfritz]

I just want to say I think we have one of the most solid communities so far, no arguments really and just pure SEX in terms of character and tool discussion let's keep it up guys!

1 frame faster...but with them being 27 and 28 frames respectively I guess I can see how you could just fuzzy on reaction to the demon coming down or something. Doesn't make it a less annoying more punishable mixup though
I have tried, but it's still not a 100% kind of thing. I still get caught out by them sometimes and it sucks that when I run I still get caught by low minion

i think the 28 frames are at the moment when the demon comes out at the top of the screen, let it be 38 until he reaches a standing character. the fuzzy input is pretty relaxed, its just hard to focus on the startup animation all the time. but when you got that down, there is barely need to run, because what is scorpion gonna do? he has to take the risks to get in now, and he doesnt have the best tools for that. i think scorpions might just figure that out and go hellfire/ninjitsu against us.

I'm sorry if this was mentioned earlier, but how do you guys handle the Cassie MU. I've got blown up by one the past 2 weeks at ranbats

commando is good i think. she has to get in, so create a knife obstacle course for her and parry/command grab (mixed with run up) when she gets close. but i got bodied by a Hollywood cassie too recently.

 

[Youphemism]

@Youphemism the Hollywood variation. I haven't played against spec ops yet

Hollywood, ok. I actually like Cybernetic in this matchup because it forces her to come to you. All she has from full screen is her duckable pistol so most of the time you can just throw knives for free and make her jump and try to come in on you. If you see her pistol just duck it and go back to throwing knives. Once she jumps you need to be careful of her air normals so usually I find it more effective to trip guard than anti-air her. If she does get within range of her B12 the just be careful. B124 is interruptable in all variations but if you don't interrupt it she's neutral. BUT after B124 Cassie's usually go for a D3 check which I was looking at yesterday. Her D3 is 7 frames and -2 on block which is stupid so it's either respect it and not get to punish it or full combo punish with armour because we don't have a fast enough normal. Your best option (at least in Cybernetic) is to Black Dragon Ball cancel into full combo. This will eat the D3 but hit her and you get the advantage. Of course you can only do this on a read because she can just not D3 and you would get full combo punished. If possible interrupt B124 but if you block it then you have an option for her D3 or really any other check.
Try not to get knocked down because at that point she can get her 50/50 game going and you don't want that. ESPECIALLY in Hollywood because if she gets one combo you're getting HUGE damage off of you into a restand into an unescapable 50/50...
That's all I had to do and it kept Hollywood down at least.

 

[Phosferrax]

@Youphemism the overhead demon hits considerably later that the low one. The first time you play against it you think it's fucking broken but the more you get used to it the more you realise it's op but not as bad lol.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Once you knock Scorpion down, you have to move jump distance away from him, then jump at him. Takedown whiffs and so does teleport if he wakes up and you get a full combo punish. He has to tech roll, stay on the ground or backdash and if he blocks the jip 1 then he has to take the 50/50. In my opinion you shouldn't play defensive against him, all it takes is 1 random low demon or 1 read knife into TP and you eat a full combo into vortex, the risk/reward is just not in your favour when you are away from Inferno Scorpion. He can set up a teleport by baiting you into "keeping him in check" with a knife after you block any of the demons, considering how good Kano's dash is you can just push him in the corner by just dashing, if he jumps you anti air him and if he tries to play footsies with you on the ground you either throw a knife or just come in with f4 and you will beat out his options. F4 is superior to any normal Scorpion has in Inferno/Hellfire for footsies. There is no reason for Scorpion to even wake up against Cyber, who gives a shit about Cyber's up close game anyway? especially with b1 and 3,2 nerfed. Scorpion can pull damage out of his ass from anything, Cyber can't.

IMO you just need that bullshit mix-up factor against Scorpion, he has to teleport or risk getting wrecked in the corner against Cutthroat. You simply have to make more reads in Cyber than in Cutthroat. I mean come on it's a no-brainer: Kano has better standing normals than Scorpion and you can't abuse knives against teleporters, this reminds me of that Scumbag-Jax meme from MK9 "put opponent in corner, win game". If Scorpion is in the corner, anywhere between just outside jump distance to toes touching he is fucked, best option he has is to jump into teleport or whiffed teleport to avoid from getting wrecked and that's a hail Mary.. or run into f2 and switch sides if he catches you with it, but you gotta see that coming and f4/f2,1 or bladeslice him before that.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Ok so I was labbing Dvorah again and I can definitely see why people are saying Swarm Queen is good... Which do you prefer in this match-up? Cutthroat or Cyber? I am kinda thinking Cyber might be better for this one.

 

[Youphemism]

Ok so I was labbing Dvorah again and I can definitely see why people are saying Swarm Queen is good... Which do you prefer in this match-up? Cutthroat or Cyber? I am kinda thinking Cyber might be better for this one.

Off the top of my head Cyber or Cutthroat probably are better. Her normals cover too much range for Commando to be a good idea I think.

 

[LEGI0N47]

@Smoke_Of_Finland
I can agree with the approach to scorp in cutthroat but you still have to make a lot of solid of reads no matter the variation.

I have yet to find a decent strat to lock him down. I've found that I can't reliably attempt to punish his jump in's, cross ups, or jump backs because of air tele. That puts you right back in the vortex against one's with a brain if you're wrong. I'm starting to find that I should almost never go for a mix up on knockdown if he has meter because it's almost a guarantee that he's going to use armored tele, which you're forced to respect that option or get vortexed. Or like you said do some kind of jump tele fake out.

I do need to work this jump in on knockdown strat since I'm not doing that currently at all when I do get the knockdown.
I'm finding that I'm playing this MU completely reactionary anytime he has meter outside of situations where I know I can punish dumb shit like spear or demon fishing around jump range. It's infuriating I hate playing scorps so much. Yes I'm salty.

 

[SaltShaker]

In full agreement with Dribirut on the Ferra/Torr Cyber Kano MU. This MU is hella bad for Ferra/Torr. Wow.

 

[Youphemism]

In full agreement with Dribirut on the Ferra/Torr Cyber Kano MU. This MU is hella bad for Ferra/Torr. Wow.

How do you think I won my Kombat Pack from Mustard?

 

[Phosferrax]

In full agreement with Dribirut on the Ferra/Torr Cyber Kano MU. This MU is hella bad for Ferra/Torr. Wow.

Even Vicious?

 

[AK Stormthegates]

Don't know if this has been answered already but how does kano do in the sub matchup and what varation should be the go to? I feel like cyber does feel because knives just keep destroying clones.

 

[LEGI0N47]

Don't know if this has been answered already but how does kano do in the sub matchup and what varation should be the go to? I feel like cyber does feel because knives just keep destroying clones.

This has been the vibe around here. Knives are our BFF's in this MU. It is also nice that if you read EX slide EX knives blow it up in cyber. But it seems that most don't care for this MU. It's definitely not easy but I don't think it's unwinnable or anything. There are some guys who play only the other variations that may have some points on dealing with him. But cyber seems to be the general go to for now.

 

[Youphemism]

Don't know if this has been answered already but how does kano do in the sub matchup and what varation should be the go to? I feel like cyber does feel because knives just keep destroying clones.

You're exactly right. Just knife knife knife away in Cybernetic. At least in the Grandmaster matchup. It's probably slightly less effective in Unbreakable due to Ice Aura negating chip but still ok. As for Cryomancer I feel like Commando might do better but I don't play that variation so I can't say for sure.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I really hate this matchup, can't figure out any way to get in. I have to test if Kano can reliably jump over the clone or if he'll get frozen. If the sub player is bad it's not really a problem, but if they just used ice clone whenever they can like a smart GM player I cannot figure out a way to punish them for it or get around it.

 

[Youphemism]

I really hate this matchup, can't figure out any way to get in. I have to test if Kano can reliably jump over the clone or if he'll get frozen. If the sub player is bad it's not really a problem, but if they just used ice clone whenever they can like a smart GM player I cannot figure out a way to punish them for it or get around it.

Because you're not supposed to get in on GM Sub in this matchup, that's why Cybernetic is better for this one lol.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Idk, I'll find a way, haha.

 

[ando1184]

You guys might have seen this vid already because I posted it in the combo thread and technically it is a combo vid, but I made it with matchups and how to deal with them in mind. I use cyber vs GM SZ also bc I think it's his strongest var for dealing with clone, but his other tools also greatly help in this matchup. Pay attention to the sub parts of the vid, I tried to create the scenarios we come across vs SZ and kano's answer to them. So give feedback and I hope it helps a bit.

 

[SaltShaker]

You guys might have seen this vid already because I posted it in the combo thread and technically it is a combo vid, but I made it with matchups and how to deal with them in mind. I use cyber vs GM SZ also bc I think it's his strongest var for dealing with clone, but his other tools also greatly help in this matchup. Pay attention to the sub parts of the vid, I tried to create the scenarios we come across vs SZ and kano's answer to them. So give feedback and I hope it helps a bit.

Great vid once again man. Maxing out those clean punishes. Very creative idea to use punishes as a combo video. You should do a major moves punishes for all the cast vid and have a mod sticky it!

I didn't know you could squeeze out a 5th B1. I'm gonna have to incorporate that into my "life lead swag combos" section lol.

 

[Youphemism]

You guys might have seen this vid already because I posted it in the combo thread and technically it is a combo vid, but I made it with matchups and how to deal with them in mind. I use cyber vs GM SZ also bc I think it's his strongest var for dealing with clone, but his other tools also greatly help in this matchup. Pay attention to the sub parts of the vid, I tried to create the scenarios we come across vs SZ and kano's answer to them. So give feedback and I hope it helps a bit.

YO 3:23! Finding a setup for the knives restand, nice work

 

[DFC]

I feel absolutely useless when I go up against a Dragon fist Liu Kang or Ronin Takeda. This might be me going up against people much better than me, but I frequently just get violated six ways to sunday against these guys in every phase. What the heck does this totally EVO ready stud do?

 

[MK Peanuts]

I feel absolutely useless when I go up against a Dragon fist Liu Kang or Ronin Takeda. This might be me going up against people much better than me, but I frequently just get violated six ways to sunday against these guys in every phase. What the heck does this totally EVO ready stud do?

What are they doing that's beating you?

 

[DFC]

What are they doing that's beating you?

The Liu makes his strings very difficult to counter/punish(he ends almost all of them with that backfist), as well as outzones me almost completely. I'll trade, but Trading with Liu is a bad trade.

The Takeda just completely eliminates zoning with his Parry and the Projectile that eliminates my own. When he's inside, I don't really know what's coming, and I end up eating combos because of it.