Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

[MK Peanuts]

The Liu makes his strings very difficult to counter/punish(he ends almost all of them with that backfist), as well as outzones me almost completely. I'll trade, but Trading with Liu is a bad trade.

The Takeda just completely eliminates zoning with his Parry and the Projectile that eliminates my own. When he's inside, I don't really know what's coming, and I end up eating combos because of it.

The backfist is -2 on block I'm pretty sure. It's safe but he doesn't get to keep doing blockstrings into backfist, you can interrupt that if he tries. I dunno what variation you use but you might want cybernetic against Liu Kang. If you have high knives he can low fireball under them in which case he probably does outzone Kano. With mid knives I feel like the long range game is in Kano's favor.

If you don't know what Takeda's doing then I'd recommend going into training mode and seeing what his strings do. I don't think he has a very good high/low game and his normals are slow. Also I don't think Takeda has a parry?

 

[MK Peanuts]

Sorry for the double post. Just wondering if anyone has some hot tipz for the Scorpion and/or Cassie Cage matchups. I've never played either of these characters, but I've got them in my pool for Combo Breaker. I spent some time learning how to block their mixups and punish stuff but anything Kano specific would be really helpful.

 

[Youphemism]

Sorry for the double post. Just wondering if anyone has some hot tipz for the Scorpion and/or Cassie Cage matchups. I've never played either of these characters, but I've got them in my pool for Combo Breaker. I spent some time learning how to block their mixups and punish stuff but anything Kano specific would be really helpful.

Ugh Scorpion is a generally shitty matchup for Kano, I wouldn't bother. As for Cassie it should be easy enough to zone her out in Cybernetic, at least that's what I do. Ant-air and trip guard as per usual. If she tries to B124 and you block it and don't interrupt the gap before the 4 in time then you can full combo punish any followup with BF3EXDD into whatever combo you like. Try and end your combos in BF3 for the HKD and full screen positioning so you can go straight back to zoning. At least this is for Cybernetic if that's what you're looking for.

 

[MK Peanuts]

Ugh Scorpion is a generally shitty matchup for Kano, I wouldn't bother. As for Cassie it should be easy enough to zone her out in Cybernetic, at least that's what I do. Ant-air and trip guard as per usual. If she tries to B124 and you block it and don't interrupt the gap before the 4 in time then you can full combo punish any followup with BF3EXDD into whatever combo you like. Try and end your combos in BF3 for the HKD and full screen positioning so you can go straight back to zoning. At least this is for Cybernetic if that's what you're looking for.

Word. Yeah Cybernetic is what I play. I probably would run Cutthroat against Scorpion if I had practice with it, but I don't so RIP

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Sorry for the double post. Just wondering if anyone has some hot tipz for the Scorpion and/or Cassie Cage matchups. I've never played either of these characters, but I've got them in my pool for Combo Breaker. I spent some time learning how to block their mixups and punish stuff but anything Kano specific would be really helpful.

Only tid bits against scorpion I know is sometimes if scorpion teleports against you when you do the knives input you can get an option select upball. And maybe when zoning try stance switching to bait out a teleport.

Just try to make scorpion players to play unsafe. They do something Yolo eventually.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

"Scorpion is a shitty matchup, so don't bother" that's probably the worst mindset I've ever seen. It's a "bad matchup" so expect to lose... lol. You can't just wtfzone scorpion because they will punish you by teleporting. You have to use staggered knives + advancing to scare them into teleporting while you're on the defensive instead of teleporting while you're on the offense, because that's when you'll get blown up. I realize knives are godlike, but cyber can definitely be played without just using them any time you're 2 or 3 character lengths from your opponent. Obviously his vortex can be brutal to deal with, but people seem to forget that across the board Kano's normals are pretty godlike as far as frames are concerned and he gets solid midscreen punishes, especially in cyber. Just have to adjust to zoning in a more intelligent way if you're going to go in with cyber.

Edit: Wish I had more specific stuff for scorpion, but I play commando and love fighting scorpions so I can't feel your pain.

 

[Youphemism]

"Scorpion is a shitty matchup, so don't bother" that's probably the worst mindset I've ever seen. It's a "bad matchup" so expect to lose... lol. You can't just wtfzone scorpion because they will punish you by teleporting. You have to use staggered knives + advancing to scare them into teleporting while you're on the defensive instead of teleporting while you're on the offense, because that's when you'll get blown up. I realize knives are godlike, but cyber can definitely be played without just using them any time you're 2 or 3 character lengths from your opponent. Obviously his vortex can be brutal to deal with, but people seem to forget that across the board Kano's normals are pretty godlike as far as frames are concerned and he gets solid midscreen punishes, especially in cyber. Just have to adjust to zoning in a more intelligent way if you're going to go in with cyber.

Edit: Wish I had more specific stuff for scorpion, but I play commando and love fighting scorpions so I can't feel your pain.

You're probably right in that it's not the best mindset but I play Cybernetic not Commando and it's worse for that variation lol.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

It may be relatively worse, but just telling yourself there's nothing you can do in that matchup is never going to help you get better at is is all I'm sayin'

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I just finished playing a 4 hour offline set using primarily Cutthroat and some Cybernetic. Cybernetic b1 is a godlike anti air against Liu Kang, but I got blown up so many times trying to anti air Quan's jumping 2 with b1 I would just take the upball or uppercut against Quan, against Scorpion's jumping 3 uppercut seems to be the best (was using Cutthroat against Scorpion).

I may have underestimated Cybernetic, I think once people will start trying out all of the variations there will be a consensus that at least Cyber and Cutthroat have their uses against different characters, Commando might also be seen as a viable option once people master the max damage combos for it.

 

[bdizzle2700]

Kano vs ermac seems like a pretty bad match up, at least vs master of souls.fully powered soul ball will trade with a knife. And he doesn't need stamina to convert , he can just Tele to extend his combos. He out damages us. He has little reason to do something unsafe unless he has a life deficit. He can even hover and avoid knives then ground slam to check you back. Its just bad all around. I was playing cyber then switched to commando and I did a lil better but one wrong read your in a vortex or eating 40%. I tried cutthroat but I haven't touched it much so maybe that might work best.

 

[ando1184]

I thought this might be useful here too since it's matchup based and covers different characters from the last one I did.

 

[ando1184]

Ok so after watching combo breaker, I wanted to talk about erron black's 21122 string. As Kano, I can't MB through anything unless he special cancels early (example: 211 command grab). This string is too good, if he does it and let's the max hits come out before special canceling you're stuck dealing with an I reactable 50/50. I tested it in training mode and there's little to nothing we can do but guess correctly if EB decides to finish the string. We have to either crouch block and release the block button if we "think" he's going for command grab or block low and block the MB bomb (which is +7 on block) so we don't get out of pressure. On top of that, the meter this string builds is next to MB trident ruch level and that's incredibly strong in an MK game. I just wanted everyone's thoughts on this and how they deal with it? I normally wouldn't mind since most EB's stick to f13 and his low kick starter but I fought a few EB's online last night and everyone's trying to be sonicfox now

 

[SaltShaker]

Ok so after watching combo breaker, I wanted to talk about erron black's 21122 string. As Kano, I can't MB through anything unless he special cancels early (example: 211 command grab). This string is too good, if he does it and let's the max hits come out before special canceling you're stuck dealing with an I reactable 50/50. I tested it in training mode and there's little to nothing we can do but guess correctly if EB decides to finish the string. We have to either crouch block and release the block button if we "think" he's going for command grab or block low and block the MB bomb (which is +7 on block) so we don't get out of pressure. On top of that, the meter this string builds is next to MB trident ruch level and that's incredibly strong in an MK game. I just wanted everyone's thoughts on this and how they deal with it? I normally wouldn't mind since most EB's stick to f13 and his low kick starter but I fought a few EB's online last night and everyone's trying to be sonicfox now

It's been a while since I got progressively worse in a MU like I am in this one. Mainly because the good Erron players are getting better and the character is ridunkulous.

Best option I've found? Zone him out like a Jedi and if he gets in hope to guess correctly, sometimes 2x in a row.

 

[GLoRToR]

Kano Anti-Ruthless tech: Find him a girlfriend called Ruth.

 

[ando1184]

It's been a while since I got progressively worse in a MU like I am in this one. Mainly because the good Erron players are getting better and the character is ridunkulous.

Best option I've found? Zone him out like a Jedi and if he gets in hope to guess correctly, sometimes 2x in a row.

See now that's what makes me disgusted at watching him play. There is no viable way around this, you have to respect the mindless vortex. There's no thinking involved and there's nothing that can be done about it if the EB player decides to do the whole string into specials. I think that's a big issue since, it's not just Kano, but everyone can't deal with it because there's no window to poke, MB special, or anything. I even tried backdashing and the bomb stuffs that too at least versus HF Scorpion he can run out of stamina pressuring you like this but EB does this with no consequence and he has a vortex and intense meter gain off of it.

 

[SaltShaker]

See now that's what makes me disgusted at watching him play. There is no viable way around this, you have to respect the mindless vortex. There's no thinking involved and there's nothing that can be done about it if the EB player decides to do the whole string into specials. I think that's a big issue since, it's not just Kano, but everyone can't deal with it because there's no window to poke, MB special, or anything. I even tried backdashing and the bomb stuffs that too at least versus HF Scorpion he can run out of stamina pressuring you like this but EB does this with no consequence and he has a vortex and intense meter gain off of it.

Oh yea I forgot about how much meter he builds while you're blocking it. -.-

I've tried everything. Hoping the more I play good Erron users the better I'll learn the MU and find strategies, only to realize that there are no counters or strategies and your only option is to guess correctly either once or twice depending on what he does.

This is pretty shitty design. Especially when you throw in the "omg I can't believe I blocked and read everything correctly up close", only to have your follow up attack countered by MB Armor SandWall for full combo. Lmao! Wow just typing it out sounds ridiculous.

Boring crappy MU that makes me miss facing Batgirl.

 

[ando1184]

Oh yea I forgot about how much meter he builds while you're blocking it. -.-

I've tried everything. Hoping the more I play good Erron users the better I'll learn the MU and find strategies, only to realize that there are no counters or strategies and your only option is to guess correctly either once or twice depending on what he does.

This is pretty shitty design. Especially when you throw in the "omg I can't believe I blocked and read everything correctly up close", only to have your follow up attack countered by MB Armor SandWall for full combo. Lmao! Wow just typing it out sounds ridiculous.

Boring crappy MU that makes me miss facing Batgirl.

That's how I feel too, I mean this kinda feels worse than BG and Kabal. At least those characters had holes in places to counter poke, MB or whatever. EB's 21122 string doesn't give you anything but high hopes and wishful thinking. I noticed the EB section had a thread about this string so I made my point and asked if they had any advice too. I'm waiting for the blowup..........

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I fuckin' don't know man. I'm all ears to tips in the Erron Matchup guessing game...shit easily makes me the most salty in this game. If he gets close and I guess right I get maybe a 112xxBall punish, or go for the ex and get an extended midscreen combo for 35% or so if I wanna use meter... If not then I just have command grab or parry to try and get him off, but you still have to guess for the parry since there are no parryable gaps in his strings, only small gaps that can be armored through with specials, so again have to use meter. I need all this meter all along to break because he WILL get me into a situation where I need to break....

I mean I can't really bitch because I'm choosing to play the grappler in a game with super fast low/OH mixups that convert to around 40% dmg, so many matchups just feel like an uphill climb, like I have to work so hard and read well and stuff...when I feel like I could just pick up like a sonya or Erron black and not enjoy the character I'm playing but do much better.

edit: luckily, even though Erron is cool design wise, his gameplay is actually extremely stale and boring, so there will be bandwagoners who pick him because of SF but I don't think he'll be oversaturating the scene... I guess unless people wanna win.

 

[Youphemism]

I fuckin' don't know man. I'm all ears to tips in the Erron Matchup guessing game...shit easily makes me the most salty in this game. If he gets close and I guess right I get maybe a 112xxBall punish, or go for the ex and get an extended midscreen combo for 35% or so if I wanna use meter... If not then I just have command grab or parry to try and get him off, but you still have to guess for the parry since there are no parryable gaps in his strings, only small gaps that can be armored through with specials, so again have to use meter. I need all this meter all along to break because he WILL get me into a situation where I need to break....

I mean I can't really bitch because I'm choosing to play the grappler in a game with super fast low/OH mixups that convert to around 40% dmg, so many matchups just feel like an uphill climb, like I have to work so hard and read well and stuff...when I feel like I could just pick up like a sonya or Erron black and not enjoy the character I'm playing but do much better.

edit: luckily, even though Erron is cool design wise, his gameplay is actually extremely stale and boring, so there will be bandwagoners who pick him because of SF but I don't think he'll be oversaturating the scene... I guess unless people wanna win.

Lol I feel bad for Commando players against Erron, Cybernetic has it easier

 

[Killjoy McGee]

Currently struggling with Quan Chi, (Summoner and Warlock) Mileena, (Piercing, Ravenous) and Sub Zero (Grandmaster)

Does anyone have any tips for fighting these guys? Like Punishes and what not to do?

I play Cutthroat BTW

 

[MK Peanuts]

I found something neat against Covert Ops Sonya. If she does b14 (the overhead -> low string), b14 xx stance command grab, or b14 xx stance overhead, you can punish any of those after with the b14 with upball. b14 is unsafe by itself, and there's a huge gap in blockstun before the overhead option. Obviously you can also punish with armor but I think it's interesting that a meterless option punishes all those things. If she does b14 xx stance low, that one's a true blockstring, but the low option is unsafe and only leads to combos in the corner (as far as I can tell anyways, I'm not a Sonya player, I just spent a few minutes in training mode trying to combo after it).

 

[Rude]

My thoughts on The Ermac Match up:


This is a battle of patience if you're a Cyber Kano player. You can't go ham with knives because the Soul Ball/Knife trade is very bad.

However, Reversal knife to Soul Balls seem to work fine. So throw knives sparingly and as Reversals from full screen.

If he starts to do float/teleport/wowo/slam mix ups, do not panic.

If you crouch block as soon as he hops in the air, you beat all of his options.

The slam is a low, so you can block it and toss a Reversal knife.

Ermac players I've fought love to jump. So your first priority in containing his approach is to control the air with b1, uppercuts, or njp for cross ups.

Kano's b1 and d1 are a bit inconsistent for cross ups, but It's an option. One thing I'm trying to work on is dashing forward out of the cross up altogether.

You can punish his OH/Low with a full combo and if you block a d1, while i can't do it consistently, you can check with a b1 or throw. The safest bet is to poke back and go into your own pressure.

I think Kano wins this match, but it requires you to be extremely patient and to let the Ermac player hang themselves.

 

[LEGI0N47]

I fuckin' don't know man. I'm all ears to tips in the Erron Matchup guessing game...shit easily makes me the most salty in this game. If he gets close and I guess right I get maybe a 112xxBall punish, or go for the ex and get an extended midscreen combo for 35% or so if I wanna use meter... If not then I just have command grab or parry to try and get him off, but you still have to guess for the parry since there are no parryable gaps in his strings, only small gaps that can be armored through with specials, so again have to use meter. I need all this meter all along to break because he WILL get me into a situation where I need to break....

I mean I can't really bitch because I'm choosing to play the grappler in a game with super fast low/OH mixups that convert to around 40% dmg, so many matchups just feel like an uphill climb, like I have to work so hard and read well and stuff...when I feel like I could just pick up like a sonya or Erron black and not enjoy the character I'm playing but do much better.

edit: luckily, even though Erron is cool design wise, his gameplay is actually extremely stale and boring, so there will be bandwagoners who pick him because of SF but I don't think he'll be oversaturating the scene... I guess unless people wanna win.

It is true the switching to those chars will likely net you wins more. I play a bit of Sonya and I do win more with her than Kano a lot of days and have put hardly a 1/3 of the time into her as I have Kano. But I enjoy Kano much more overall as a char.

I have to give you props for sticking with commando. I really like his style but so many MU's are so hard with that variation for me. Gotta be honest, I'm heading back the Cutthroat way because I believe that the low/oh mix ups are going to continue to dominate the game. Though I will roll all his variations because I like them all.

 

[M2Dave]

I mean I can't really bitch because I'm choosing to play the grappler in a game with super fast low/OH mixups that convert to around 40% dmg, so many matchups just feel like an uphill climb, like I have to work so hard and read well and stuff...when I feel like I could just pick up like a sonya or Erron black and not enjoy the character I'm playing but do much better.

Such feeling is normal, even when you use Cybernetic Kano.

You may play footsies or zone perfectly for 35-40 seconds. But then a character like Erron Black knocks you down and takes away 70%+ of your life with rudimentary mix ups.

Do not feel bad as such scenarios are very common in this game.

 

[bdizzle2700]

My thoughts on The Ermac Match up:


This is a battle of patience if you're a Cyber Kano player. You can't go ham with knives because the Soul Ball/Knife trade is very bad.

However, Reversal knife to Soul Balls seem to work fine. So throw knives sparingly and as Reversals from full screen.

If he starts to do float/teleport/wowo/slam mix ups, do not panic.

If you crouch block as soon as he hops in the air, you beat all of his options.

The slam is a low, so you can block it and toss a Reversal knife.

Ermac players I've fought love to jump. So your first priority in containing his approach is to control the air with b1, uppercuts, or njp for cross ups.

Kano's b1 and d1 are a bit inconsistent for cross ups, but It's an option. One thing I'm trying to work on is dashing forward out of the cross up altogether.

You can punish his OH/Low with a full combo and if you block a d1, while i can't do it consistently, you can check with a b1 or throw. The safest bet is to poke back and go into your own pressure.

I think Kano wins this match, but it requires you to be extremely patient and to let the Ermac player hang themselves.

Play @niredina and tell me patience is key. It's stupid.