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Match-Up Discussion - Kano Kano's Ruthless Matchup Discussion Thread

J

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
Tonight was the first time my buddy broke out cybernetic since the kp2 release. I can usually handle it pretty effectively but it really is Alien's kryptonite. Even though about half of the matches in the set we played were down to basically who'd get the last hit I went 0-10, which is unheard of with us. Imo the knives job isn't to hurt as much as it is to force blocking and knock the opponent out of everything he tries to do. It was really ugly and frustrating. Dude just has too many tools now.
 
MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Jowabunga said:
Tonight was the first time my buddy broke out cybernetic since the kp2 release. I can usually handle it pretty effectively but it really is Alien's kryptonite. Even though about half of the matches in the set we played were down to basically who'd get the last hit I went 0-10, which is unheard of with us. Imo the knives job isn't to hurt as much as it is to force blocking and knock the opponent out of everything he tries to do. It was really ugly and frustrating. Dude just has too many tools now.
Click to expand...
Alien can't low profile knives with his crawl right?
 
LEGI0N47

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
I have done some minor labbing against some of the set ups that I have seen with Killer LF, mainly F2 into the unblockable. Most of you probably saw Reo's video that you can backdash it but I wanted to test the parry since it's start up is so fast. You can infact EX parry that set up, though it is hard AF to get the timing right. I probably got it 2/10 times. It's a really tough counter for the timing but some of you may be more adept at it than I.

I also decided to see what armor options can beat Tarkatan's stupid reka's. Crap thing is that it all depends on how they delay them. I don't have a ton of knowledge on that char or variation but I found it possible to EX parry the second hit if they delayed it enough and of course you can parry the third hit. However that can require a read on weather to use high or low as well as how much they delay it. I also found it possible to use all his standard armor attacks on the third hit like ball, upball, and choke. After reading some of your guy's posts it seems maybe cyber or curthroat may be the best as you can get a decent combo. I did not try EX eye laser or power up. Perhaps I will and see what happens.
 
MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
LEGI0N47 said:
I have done some minor labbing against some of the set ups that I have seen with Killer LF, mainly F2 into the unblockable. Most of you probably saw Reo's video that you can backdash it but I wanted to test the parry since it's start up is so fast. You can infact EX parry that set up, though it is hard AF to get the timing right. I probably got it 2/10 times. It's a really tough counter for the timing but some of you may be more adept at it than I.

I also decided to see what armor options can beat Tarkatan's stupid reka's. Crap thing is that it all depends on how they delay them. I don't have a ton of knowledge on that char or variation but I found it possible to EX parry the second hit if they delayed it enough and of course you can parry the third hit. However that can require a read on weather to use high or low as well as how much they delay it. I also found it possible to use all his standard armor attacks on the third hit like ball, upball, and choke. After reading some of your guy's posts it seems maybe cyber or curthroat may be the best as you can get a decent combo. I did not try EX eye laser or power up. Perhaps I will and see what happens.
Click to expand...
It's never really worth going for ex parry to beat out gaps since at that point you might as well use ex command grab where you get pretty much the same damage, can choose sides and it will beat staggers.
 
LEGI0N47

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
MsMiharo said:
It's never really worth going for ex parry to beat out gaps since at that point you might as well use ex command grab where you get pretty much the same damage, can choose sides and it will beat staggers.
Click to expand...
I can agree with this. I just wanted to see if they were possible and let people know if they like to go for them. However it's the only thing that will beat that LF set up except an x-ray or backdash.
 
Apex Kano

Apex Kano

Kano Commando main MKX
Cyrax is a pain once you hit. Hard to unblockable resets beat your ass if you have no meter at all.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Cybernetic can most definitely handle Cyrax. Triborg's neutral in general is pretty bad and you can take advantage of that with your F4 and D4 for a start.
 
NHDR

NHDR

Noob
Cyber is non-existent to me ever since the last patch. I miss the mid knives and Kano's original red color, but CT's safe pressure is just too good to pass up.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
NHDR said:
Cyber is non-existent to me ever since the last patch. I miss the mid knives and Kano's original red color, but CT's safe pressure is just too good to pass up.
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Its possible a better variation for the MU, don't disregard it because it isn't CT.
 
MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Commando does ok vs cyrax since ex power bomb escapes a lot of HTBs (he's airborne during explosion). Parties can also work in the same manner. 22 spaces him out decently. The lack of good armor means you can stagger a lot (2, 22, 1, 11, b13, b31) and use 112 pretty freely. Maybe not better than cyber though, haven't tried señor cibernético in this MU yet
 
J

Jupe

Noob
Hey got to lab and play some games with Cutthroat against GM SZ, the mu feels a little bit on sz's favour. Here are a few tips to dealing with the matchup, if and when I've missed something important, let me know.

When you're in the corner and he has the optimal clone setup, you can still use s1 and b1 to challenge his buttons when he's standing in or behind the clone. Only commit into 2nd hit of the strings when you see that the first one is going to hit them or you'll get frozen on whiff.

B1 seems like the better option to me, as it can't be low profiled and beats stuff like sz's b2(blocked) d4 or just b2(blocked) b2. b1 can also sometimes hit them on block depending on breathing hitboxes and what not after you block sz's b2, getting rid of the clone and giving you a bit more breathing space. S1 is obviously safer on block, faster and has less recovery, but even b1 is hard to punish at max range at -10 and opponent rarely is ready for you to end the string there on the first hit. S1 can be frozen sometimes if you're too close to the clone, b1 will never hit the clone but reaches about the same distance behind the clone. db1 can also hit them in midscreen if they're standing in or right behind their clone, but you can get easily frozen if you f up your spacing.

In neutral try to avoid d4 when clone is in your d4 range. Even if sub zero is between you and the clone the d4 can for some reason hit the clone before sz and freeze you. d3 is the better option in those cases. You can punish his b2 in neutral with f212 from almost max range, from max range you have to use d4.

Anti-airing him is without armor difficult, but against crossovers you can beat his jips with well timed s1 which you can combo into f212 112bf3 for 25% or so. For jump ins, you have to time your d2 or db2 very early cuz sub zeros jip is super good, but I found a better option to be just running under him and trip guarding with 112 or f212. You can also low profile a lot of jips with d4, but if they press the jip very late it might not work.

For armoring thru his non ex clone cancel with reversal exbf3:
b33 midscreen no, corner yes (doesn't matter which one of you is in the corner, less pushback gives you enough time to hit them.)
b12 yes
f42 yes
f33 yes
d4 yes (from any range)
123 yes

Out of the useful strings into shatter the only one that you can armor is 123 shatter (I think) with reversal exbf3. b33 shatter and 12 shatter will break both of your armors.

When you got him cornered you just do the normal cutthroat stuff, and try your very best not to let him switch the positions. Obviously when you're cornered you're doing ur best to switch the positions. Midscreen I'm very rarely respecting their armor options, since they don't get that much damage from them and if they decide to spend their bar midscreen, they might not have it in the corner for reversing positions.

All in all, I'm still not sure which variation is better for this MU, cyber or ct. Cyber can challenge the space more easily and has the luxury of breaking the clone in the corner easier, but cutthroat has the damage and 50/50s to punish sub for his mistakes.
 
MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Jupe said:
Hey got to lab and play some games with Cutthroat against GM SZ, the mu feels a little bit on sz's favour. Here are a few tips to dealing with the matchup, if and when I've missed something important, let me know.

When you're in the corner and he has the optimal clone setup, you can still use s1 and b1 to challenge his buttons when he's standing in or behind the clone. Only commit into 2nd hit of the strings when you see that the first one is going to hit them or you'll get frozen on whiff.

B1 seems like the better option to me, as it can't be low profiled and beats stuff like sz's b2(blocked) d4 or just b2(blocked) b2. b1 can also sometimes hit them on block depending on breathing hitboxes and what not after you block sz's b2, getting rid of the clone and giving you a bit more breathing space. S1 is obviously safer on block, faster and has less recovery, but even b1 is hard to punish at max range at -10 and opponent rarely is ready for you to end the string there on the first hit. S1 can be frozen sometimes if you're too close to the clone, b1 will never hit the clone but reaches about the same distance behind the clone. db1 can also hit them in midscreen if they're standing in or right behind their clone, but you can get easily frozen if you f up your spacing.

In neutral try to avoid d4 when clone is in your d4 range. Even if sub zero is between you and the clone the d4 can for some reason hit the clone before sz and freeze you. d3 is the better option in those cases. You can punish his b2 in neutral with f212 from almost max range, from max range you have to use d4.

Anti-airing him is without armor difficult, but against crossovers you can beat his jips with well timed s1 which you can combo into f212 112bf3 for 25% or so. For jump ins, you have to time your d2 or db2 very early cuz sub zeros jip is super good, but I found a better option to be just running under him and trip guarding with 112 or f212. You can also low profile a lot of jips with d4, but if they press the jip very late it might not work.

For armoring thru his non ex clone cancel with reversal exbf3:
b33 midscreen no, corner yes (doesn't matter which one of you is in the corner, less pushback gives you enough time to hit them.)
b12 yes
f42 yes
f33 yes
d4 yes (from any range)
123 yes

Out of the useful strings into shatter the only one that you can armor is 123 shatter (I think) with reversal exbf3. b33 shatter and 12 shatter will break both of your armors.

When you got him cornered you just do the normal cutthroat stuff, and try your very best not to let him switch the positions. Obviously when you're cornered you're doing ur best to switch the positions. Midscreen I'm very rarely respecting their armor options, since they don't get that much damage from them and if they decide to spend their bar midscreen, they might not have it in the corner for reversing positions.

All in all, I'm still not sure which variation is better for this MU, cyber or ct. Cyber can challenge the space more easily and has the luxury of breaking the clone in the corner easier, but cutthroat has the damage and 50/50s to punish sub for his mistakes.
Click to expand...
I'm not getting cyber to work in this MU tbh. Gonna try CT next time.
 
I$AAC

I$AAC

Noob
So how do you guys feel about the reptile matchup? That's the one c hats yet I'm having issues against.
 
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