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General/Other - Cybernetic Kano's Cybernetic Variation Discussion Thread

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Yes. Just because the combo overhead is over 20 frames does not mean that it is going to be "reacted to" every time it's used in the heat of battle. If Scorpion just stands there like a statue and throws it out then of course, but in the middle of all the action with so many things to watch out for no one realistic "reacts and blocks" these things.

I've yet to see anything be "reacted to" consistently that wasn't uber zombie slow. Hell Grundy and his 30 frame was catching the best players for years. This new line of "oh I can block it in practice mode" is not realistic to an actual match. Yes it being slower makes it easier to react to, but it does not make it something you can consistently "block low and react to the high" and be successful at all times.
No but I block it on reaction the vast majority of the time, and that's not a 'bro get on my level' kind of thing either, it is absolutely reactable nearly all the time . It's something you'll get hit by every once in a while but it is not something the Scorpion players are going to be relying on, and it certainly not good for his 'vortex'.
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
I don't know how to upload video from my phone or I'd show you but I went up against d'vorah for the first time online and it kept spamming it's f22 canceled into acid spray and would low poke with d3 when I tried to poke or block it was very frustrating. It was venomous if that helps
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
Actually good news! Took it in the lab an set Kano to reversal with ex ball and found the gap in that f22xxacid spray. It's a start at least. I've also just determined that online isn't always the best indicator of skill level with latency issues and what not and I have no real issue losing anymore. But it is annoying when someone tea bags you and says "fuck you how you like me now lil bitch" over their mic when they beat you. I know people say it shouldn't bother you but it does when people are that nasty sometimes. Why are people like that online? That ruins it more for me than lag
 
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Lanqu

Noob
No but I block it on reaction the vast majority of the time, and that's not a 'bro get on my level' kind of thing either, it is absolutely reactable nearly all the time . It's something you'll get hit by every once in a while but it is not something the Scorpion players are going to be relying on, and it certainly not good for his 'vortex'.
Yes, I agree. And it rather hard to find 25~ frames window upclose to pull of such a slow move. Only if you are respecting your opponent to much.
 
I get frustrated playing this variation lol. With no overhead of any kind, people always just low block and i cant hurt them. Im not saying i go low starter all the time, but maybe im just not comfortable with this variation yet as a new kano player. Ill stick to cutthroat.
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
I get frustrated playing this variation lol. With no overhead of any kind, people always just low block and i cant hurt them. Im not saying i go low starter all the time, but maybe im just not comfortable with this variation yet as a new kano player. Ill stick to cutthroat.
It would be super nice to have one, yet he can prosper without it. He is not rushdown so trying to open people up with mix ups is not how you utilize him. You have to zone and space with him. People get tired of eating knife chip which gives you openings because they will try to run, dash, special or jump in and that's when you cash in with punishing those things. Basically you have to catch them trying to press buttons with your excellent footsie tools. But it does sound like Cutthroat is more what you're looking for.
 

Lanqu

Noob
This video was posted in m2dave's "Footsies are dead" thread, theres a lot of great play by coach steve in how to approach that matchup. His opponent switches to scorpion.

That was cool. But didnt get why kano keep doing b13 2+4 on block each time?
Also a few things:
1. Meterless combo is like 29% while 1Meter combo is 33-34%. Dont think that it is worth the meter. Just 112 Laser 112 ball, dash.
2. After 2 or B31 when Kano is +2 there is no sense in doing d3 because you loose the advantage
3. Single b13 on block is better then the full string because you still can d3 or use armor ball
4. Using armor ball to extend combo is not worth the meter spent
5. There was a time when full screen knife after knockdown was thrown and to escape it scorp did TP and Kano was still able to block in time and punish it. Nice.
 

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
I don't quite get why you can't move after db1. you can attack, but you can't jump in.
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
1. Meterless combo is like 29% while 1Meter combo is 33-34%. Dont think that it is worth the meter.
That's five to six percent. Against a good player that can be a pretty big deal. If it was only like one or two points more I could see your point.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
No but I block it on reaction the vast majority of the time, and that's not a 'bro get on my level' kind of thing either, it is absolutely reactable nearly all the time . It's something you'll get hit by every once in a while but it is not something the Scorpion players are going to be relying on, and it certainly not good for his 'vortex'.
Yes, I agree. And it rather hard to find 25~ frames window upclose to pull of such a slow move. Only if you are respecting your opponent to much.
With unpredictability, game pace, and conditioning involved I don't believe it. On "reaction" is countering a jump in with B1 9 out of 10 times. On reaction is punishing a blocked teleport with 112 19 out of 20 times. Is that how often you block it? -.- On a read with reaction involved you're block the OH. Not on pure reaction. That is more of lesser play from Scorpion than Godlike reactions.

You are not in the middle of being combo'd, left in a 50/50 state, blocking low while watching out for grab but "seeing it's not a low or grab it's an OH so you'll slide your fingers and block on reaction". It's more like "hmm let me block low but I think the OH is coming this time so when I see the movement I'll hurry and block high". That is the reason why he can catch people with it. Once you are expecting the low or grab after conditioning it becomes almost impossible to "react" to the OH in time.

People are over there in the other thread taking the human reaction test coming up with numbers like 23f on average while sitting in the comfort of their living room, studies show 21.5 per second in the comfort of relaxing before a test, yet people are supposedly "consistently reacting to a 25f OH in the heat of tournament battle".

Not buying it.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
With unpredictability, game pace, and conditioning involved I don't believe it. On "reaction" is countering a jump in with B1 9 out of 10 times. On reaction is punishing a blocked teleport with 112 19 out of 20 times. Is that how often you block it? -.- On a read with reaction involved you're block the OH. Not on pure reaction. That is more of lesser play from Scorpion than Godlike reactions.

You are not in the middle of being combo'd, left in a 50/50 state, blocking low while watching out for grab but "seeing it's not a low or grab it's an OH so you'll slide your fingers and block on reaction". It's more like "hmm let me block low but I think the OH is coming this time so when I see the movement I'll hurry and block high". That is the reason why he can catch people with it. Once you are expecting the low or grab after conditioning it becomes almost impossible to "react" to the OH in time.

People are over there in the other thread taking the human reaction test coming up with numbers like 23f on average while sitting in the comfort of their living room, studies show 21.5 per second in the comfort of relaxing before a test, yet people are supposedly "consistently reacting to a 25f OH in the heat of tournament battle".

Not buying it.
I don't know what to tell you then man. It's a completely telegraphed move as well, it's not like the low and the slow OH look like eachother, you can see his leg before it comes down and that's the give away,

But agree to disagree.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Guys I've been looking at 2F4 at the beginning of a match, it's pretty decent. If it hits you're full screen, if it's blocked you're neutral and if they try and neutral duck it you can mix it up with D4 or run cancel B31~full combo. What do you think?
That was cool. But didnt get why kano keep doing b13 2+4 on block each time?
Also a few things:
1. Meterless combo is like 29% while 1Meter combo is 33-34%. Dont think that it is worth the meter. Just 112 Laser 112 ball, dash.
2. After 2 or B31 when Kano is +2 there is no sense in doing d3 because you loose the advantage
3. Single b13 on block is better then the full string because you still can d3 or use armor ball
4. Using armor ball to extend combo is not worth the meter spent
5. There was a time when full screen knife after knockdown was thrown and to escape it scorp did TP and Kano was still able to block in time and punish it. Nice.
1. I'm pretty sure 1 bar is more than that, he just wasn't always doing optimal combos. Every player does combos they like sometimes rather than optimal ones.
2. Yes there is sense in doing a D3 afterwards. His D3 is one of his fastest normals at 8 frames so doing it or even a D4 is great for checking the opponent.
4. Refer to the end of point 1.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Guys I've been looking at 2F4 at the beginning of a match, it's pretty decent. If it hits you're full screen, if it's blocked you're neutral and if they try and neutral duck it you can mix it up with D4 or run cancel B31~full combo. What do you think?
I've been using it a bit more in general but never thought of it as a match starter. That sounds very interesting I'm gonna have to try it out.
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
I use F4 or D4 a LOT on opener if I dont just stay neutral or backdash/walk back. if the F4 hits you can link it into ball or knife if you want to push them or keep them standing, if it's blocked it's relatively safe. Most people either can't or don't punish it, especially as first move. I like 2F4 as maybe a safer option though.
 
1. Meterless combo is like 29% while 1Meter combo is 33-34%. Dont think that it is worth the meter. Just 112 Laser 112 ball, dash.
In general I agree, although sometimes I think it's worth it for positioning. If I start a combo with my back to the corner I'll sometimes spend the meter to switch sides and put my opponent in the corner. I haven't actually watched the video so I don't know if that was the situation.

4. Using armor ball to extend combo is not worth the meter spent
Yeah I have no idea why Steve does these combos lmao
 

Plop

Noob
Ok so I played a Sonya for the first time today and he shat all over me.
It's my own fault really. I hate the character so muh that I've paid no attention to her since her reveal and I barely even know what her variations are. After a few games I started to pick up on her overhead/low and low/overhead strings and started to block some of them but she still just ran through me.
I had no idea how to punish her though. Anyone or any advice on how to deal with this character?
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Ok so I played a Sonya for the first time today and he shat all over me.
It's my own fault really. I hate the character so muh that I've paid no attention to her since her reveal and I barely even know what her variations are. After a few games I started to pick up on her overhead/low and low/overhead strings and started to block some of them but she still just ran through me.
I had no idea how to punish her though. Anyone or any advice on how to deal with this character?
Just stick to the general gameplan overall: KNIVES THROW MORE KNIVES KNIVES EVERYWHERE GODDAMNIT KNIIIIIIIVVVVEEEEESSSSSS

But seriously.....throw knives. You need that bitch as far away as possible at all times lol. If she jumps you need to be wary since she can divekick you into full combo so B1 is risky but you can always up ball and you'll probably be alright.
 

ando1184

Noob
Ok so I played a Sonya for the first time today and he shat all over me.
It's my own fault really. I hate the character so muh that I've paid no attention to her since her reveal and I barely even know what her variations are. After a few games I started to pick up on her overhead/low and low/overhead strings and started to block some of them but she still just ran through me.
I had no idea how to punish her though. Anyone or any advice on how to deal with this character?
Guys I posted these vids in the combo and matchup threads. If you haven't please take a look, it's more of a punishment guide than a combo vid. I know I cover Sonya and D'Vorah, and others. Even if I show a combo with a different variation, the punishment can still be done in other variations, for example if cutthroat f2 punishes, then universally f4 will punish. I made these for this reason so I hope they help guys:


 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
Ok so I played a Sonya for the first time today and he shat all over me.
It's my own fault really. I hate the character so muh that I've paid no attention to her since her reveal and I barely even know what her variations are. After a few games I started to pick up on her overhead/low and low/overhead strings and started to block some of them but she still just ran through me.
I had no idea how to punish her though. Anyone or any advice on how to deal with this character?
On her main mix up b14, the oh into low, she is unsafe. But of course they will likely cancel into military stance in covert ops, her most popular and easy to use variation, which if blocked correctly is also unsafe. She has the option to 1. overhead cartwheel 2. low flip kick thing 3. cmd grab. The low option only leads to combo in the corner, the command grab option you must watch for/try to read. Cartwheel is the most common because it leads to the most damage and most players tend to favor ducking. All her specials are unsafe regardless if EX'd or not as is the dive kick except for at rather specific distances, but you still get pressure afterwards. The low starter into two mid hits is not unsafe if I recall, but you do get pressure. Again though you will be dealing with the military stance mix up.

There is of course more to the char than this, but that's the basics and what I believe gives people trouble. I suggest that you zone/space her as much as possible. Be sure to look out for the evasion of your spacing into dive kicks, it's most Sonya's bread and butter. So watch out and blow it up if you can. It recovers really fast on whiff, but is blown up on block in most cases.

Her mix ups are really good IMO, but that's a basic run down. It's not easy to deal with her when she gets on you.
 
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Plop

Noob
On her main mix up b14, the oh into low, she is unsafe. But of course they will likely cancel into military stance in covert ops, her most popular and easy to use variation, which if blocked correctly is also unsafe. She has the option to 1. overhead cartwheel 2. low flip kick thing 3. cmd grab. The low option only leads to combo in the corner, the command grab option you must watch for/try to read. Cartwheel is the most common because it leads to the most damage and most players tend to favor ducking. All her specials are unsafe regardless if EX'd or not as is the dive kick except for at rather specific distances, but you still get pressure afterwards. The low starter into two mid hits is not unsafe if I recall, but you do get pressure. Again though you will be dealing with the military stance mix up.

There is of course more to the char than this, but that's the basics and what I believe gives people trouble. I suggest that you zone/space her as much as possible. Be sure to look out for the evasion of your spacing into dive kicks, it's most Sonya's bread and butter. So watch out and blow it up if you can. It recovers really fast on whiff, but is blown up on block in most cases.

Her mix ups are really good IMO, but that's a basic run down. It's not easy to deal with her when she gets on you.
Brilliant! Thats pretty much all he was doing and it was fucking me up so you've hit the nail on the head there. Cheers
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
so i find myself playing cyber more than commando lately

is there any basic advice i should know outside of using b1 and f4 often for footsies