General/Other - Cybernetic Kano's Cybernetic Variation Discussion Thread

[dribirut]

Well it will if you give him an overhead that's also +1 on block... Of course knives are not enough, but they make the opponent jump which you then choose to anti-air or trip guard. It's like you're purposely trying to downplay him by only focussing on one part of his gameplan, I don't get it.

i am not saying he's trash by any means he is still pretty damn solid but just took a big hit imo. The holes in his game have now become much bigger and although he can def still be competitive he is nowhere near the top any more. Idk why you get so butt hurt by that statement. M2dave said essentially the same thing but I don't see you Rush over and call him out

 

[Youphemism]

i am not saying he's trash by any means he is still pretty damn solid but just took a big hit imo. The holes in his game have now become much bigger and although he can def still be competitive he is nowhere near the top any more. Idk why you get so butt hurt by that statement. M2dave said essentially the same thing but I don't see you Rush over and call him out

Oh my god...he didn't take a "big hit", several moves in the game were fixed so their frame data matched the designers original intentions. Sorry you can't mindlessly B1 any more but he doesn't even need it. That's not the point of Cybernetic Kano and it never has been. It was just....a thing.
Wtf are you talking about the holes in his game are much bigger and that he's dropped by miles?! They changed one frigging move! How can you possibly think Kano revolved around his B1? That's like saying Johnny Cage in MK9 revolved around throwing fireballs from full screen, it doesn't make any sense because that's obviously not how he was meant to be played.

M2Dave said
"The other two zoning characters that I use, Jacqui and Quan Chi, roughly have the same damage potential without any use of meter.

They also have safe 50/50 mix ups that lead to 40% combos with the use of one bar. Their zoning tools do more damage too."

Wtf does that have to do with his B1? Nothing. So no he did not say "essentially the same thing" he said something completely different.

 

[dribirut]

Oh my god...he didn't take a "big hit", several moves in the game were fixed so their frame data matched the designers original intentions. Sorry you can't mindlessly B1 any more but he doesn't even need it. That's not the point of Cybernetic Kano and it never has been. It was just....a thing.
Wtf are you talking about the holes in his game are much bigger and that he's dropped by miles?! They changed one frigging move! How can you possibly think Kano revolved around his B1? That's like saying Johnny Cage in MK9 revolved around throwing fireballs from full screen, it doesn't make any sense because that's obviously not how he was meant to be played.

M2Dave said
"The other two zoning characters that I use, Jacqui and Quan Chi, roughly have the same damage potential without any use of meter.

They also have safe 50/50 mix ups that lead to 40% combos with the use of one bar. Their zoning tools do more damage too."

Wtf does that have to do with his B1? Nothing. So no he did not say "essentially the same thing" he said something completely different.

b+1 is still usable as a poke, anti-aerial attack, and punishing tool, which is how the move has always been intended to be used. Pre-patch b+1 was broken. It was twice as good as Thunder God Raiden's f+1,2, which will probably be also normalized, in terms of lock down ability.

I agree that Cybernetic Kano is no longer a top tier character. He has clear weaknesses. The lack of mix ups is a tremendous issue. As is the subpar damage output."

Lol way to intentionally quote the wrong post tard. Here he clearly states he is not top anymore!!!! Are your reading comprehension skills that bad. This was obviously due to his b1 changes.

Lol typical "top player" nut rider..

Also continue to be ignorant to the fact nrs said they would fix some moves that were +2 on block to 0 or negative. They neeeeeeeeeeeeever said anything about recovery changes. Again I tell you. Stay free to frame data

 

[KingHippo]

So I won a local tournament yesterday using Cybernetic, here's the link to the stream.

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingzoneaz/b/661798907

I have matches at 1:38:54, 1:51:30, 2:06:20, 2:49:50, and 3:11:18

 

[Youphemism]

b+1 is still usable as a poke, anti-aerial attack, and punishing tool, which is how the move has always been intended to be used. Pre-patch b+1 was broken. It was twice as good as Thunder God Raiden's f+1,2, which will probably be also normalized, in terms of lock down ability.

I agree that Cybernetic Kano is no longer a top tier character. He has clear weaknesses. The lack of mix ups is a tremendous issue. As is the subpar damage output."

Lol way to intentionally quote the wrong post tard. Here he clearly states he is not top anymore!!!! Are your reading comprehension skills that bad. This was obviously due to his b1 changes.

Lol typical "top player" nut rider..

Also continue to be ignorant to the fact nrs said they would fix some moves that were +2 on block to 0 or negative. They neeeeeeeeeeeeever said anything about recovery changes. Again I tell you. Stay free to frame data

You were talking about what M2Dave said, so I quoted the last thing he said like a normal person. Sorry I can't read minds about which of his posts you meant, jesus christ. And look you're even name calling, while insulting mentally disabled people at the same time. Way to present a mature argument.

Seriously? ""top player" nut rider"? Do you actually read? Even though I am clearly saying something different to what M2Dave has said that makes me a dickrider. Great fucking logic Einstein. Go find an actual argument instead of devolving to ad hominem arguments like a 12 year old.

Paulo has said before that fixing some of the frame data for moves meant affecting the recovery of them too, don't know where you've been hiding but it's plain to see since, for example, it also affected Erron's B32U1. But no, go ahead and tell me about how you're the almighty knowledge bank.

If you're going to downplay go back to the Reptile forums, we like to enjoy our character and what he's good at here.

 

[Dean]

Having played him for over a month now we can figure out that zoning is what he's best at, it's not that hard to find a character's basic optimal gameplan in a month lol. But it's a good thing you've expressed interest in getting help to level up and that's what this community is here for! We'll gladly help

Unfortunately the tournaments I've entered never have me on stream but I'll try and record some footage of me next time I'm playing on my Xbox and I'll upload it to YouTube so you can watch.

How you open up a character depends on the character really, sometimes even the variation. Which characters are you struggling against mainly?

Woah woah woah, which 6 frame jab?

Thank you for that. I didn't mean to come off like I knew everything, I just knew what the struggle was for me and I was expressing it.

I am looking for help and I hope I can get good enough to eventually try to compete.

I struggle with Ermac's, Sonya's, Kung Jin's.

Basically characters that if you guess wrong (which is easy to do because they have so many options) your in for a long punish and a serious loss of momentum on a very hardcore scale.

Which often times, against good people, I will be forced to turtle up into a shell and I rarely find a way out. When I do, its very easy for me to fall back into that trap.

I know armor, ex ball, poking, run cancel after poke. I try all that, yet I still have issues.

Perhaps I need to backdash more since everyones general theme seems to be zone zone zone.

Which I do BTW.. I just use it in a passive aggressive type of way. I try to bore them to death and either let them make a mistake or catch them off gaurd.

Thanks for any help.

 

[MsMiharo]

Thank you for that. I didn't mean to come off like I knew everything, I just knew what the struggle was for me and I was expressing it.

I am looking for help and I hope I can get good enough to eventually try to compete.

I struggle with Ermac's, Sonya's, Kung Jin's.

Basically characters that if you guess wrong (which is easy to do because they have so many options) your in for a long punish and a serious loss of momentum on a very hardcore scale.

Which often times, against good people, I will be forced to turtle up into a shell and I rarely find a way out. When I do, its very easy for me to fall back into that trap.

I know armor, ex ball, poking, run cancel after poke. I try all that, yet I still have issues.

Perhaps I need to backdash more since everyones general theme seems to be zone zone zone.

Which I do BTW.. I just use it in a passive aggressive type of way. I try to bore them to death and either let them make a mistake or catch them off gaurd.

Thanks for any help.

Vs Spec ops Sonya zone with knives and watch out for/bait her divekick (it's punishable on block). She can make a read and armor her other kick (whatever it's called) but it gives her little damage and doesn't really get her in. Challenge her air game with up ball and air kano ball.

Be patient versus her 50/50. b14 (OH starter) can be armored out of after the first hit. the second hit of the 2 of B332 (low starter) will often whiff on low crouch for full combo punish (she can cancel it after first hit though). Learn to punish her cartwheel options. If you block the initial string mid screen ALWAYS BLOCK HIGH. The OH leads to big damage but the low/grab will give 10-14% or so.

Delay your wake-ups versus her oki, it can throw off timing and allow for punishes. Also backdash on wake-up can work at times. She has bad wake-ups so bait them and punish. Be wary of her parry. The EX one will hurt you.

 

[Hitoshura]

I agree that Cybernetic Kano is no longer a top tier character. He has clear weaknesses. The lack of mix ups is a tremendous issue. As is the subpar damage output."

There is no official tier list. Game is over a month old. No idea what you're talking about.

 

[OG Mannimal]

I also think that nerfing B1 hit Kano pretty hard.

 

[Derptile]

Mind=Nuked that people are saying that the B1 recovery nerf was justified. Being -2 is fine, but the time both players spend waiting around is dumb.

Kano used to be a very strong neutral game character that didn't need mixups thanks to his amazing b1 guessing game he had going on. Now he just has a decent string in the form of b13 for pressure and the occasional Ex knives to keep them honest.

 

[DFC]

Mind=Nuked that people are saying that the B1 recovery nerf was justified. Being -2 is fine, but the time both players spend waiting around is dumb.

Kano used to be a very strong neutral game character that didn't need mixups thanks to his amazing b1 guessing game he had going on. Now he just has a decent string in the form of b13 for pressure and the occasional Ex knives to keep them honest.

Like I've said before. I'm completely fine with -2. the recovery is what irked me. But I'll have to learn to live.

 

[ando1184]

So I won a local tournament yesterday using Cybernetic, here's the link to the stream.

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingzoneaz/b/661798907

I have matches at 1:38:54, 1:51:30, 2:06:20, 2:49:50, and 3:11:18

Awesome, congrats man. I hate that I missed that one but busy ya know? I'd like to get some games in with ya and discuss Kano tech offline sometime

 

[dribirut]

Like I've said before. I'm completely fine with -2. the recovery is what irked me. But I'll have to learn to live.

Yup that's what yeuphemism
Can't grasp his mind around

 

[Youphemism]

Thank you for that. I didn't mean to come off like I knew everything, I just knew what the struggle was for me and I was expressing it.

I am looking for help and I hope I can get good enough to eventually try to compete.

I struggle with Ermac's, Sonya's, Kung Jin's.

Basically characters that if you guess wrong (which is easy to do because they have so many options) your in for a long punish and a serious loss of momentum on a very hardcore scale.

Which often times, against good people, I will be forced to turtle up into a shell and I rarely find a way out. When I do, its very easy for me to fall back into that trap.

I know armor, ex ball, poking, run cancel after poke. I try all that, yet I still have issues.

Perhaps I need to backdash more since everyones general theme seems to be zone zone zone.

Which I do BTW.. I just use it in a passive aggressive type of way. I try to bore them to death and either let them make a mistake or catch them off gaurd.

Thanks for any help.

Don't worry about it dude, it's cool. We all do it at one point lol.

I think teleport characters with good mixups like Ermac and Scorpion are going to end up being a problem for Cybernetic Kano since we can't zone him the way we'd like but we just need to do our best I guess. I don't have much experience against Ermac really but I'm pretty sure we outfootsie him so just try your best to keep him out with D3s and D4s if you can. Apparently a lot of his moveset is unsafe so punish what you can and punish it as hard as you can, as much damage as you can while being able to maintain good positioning. Bait teleports as much as possible too, for Scorpion as well, because they're an easy way to get your damage in. Just punish them all and you should have a good time. But because they're so mixup heavy it's probably a good idea to keep your meter for breakers just in case they open you up and you don't guess right.

As for Sonya the mixup game is still there but she can't really teleport. Her best option is divekick, and that's still scary because one bad knife and you're eating a full combo, but that's also a full combo punish if blocked. It's still effective to throw plenty of knives though from full screen especially against Covert Ops. Special Forces probably slows you down the most because of the drone's homing moves but she still has to get to you so anytime you can make sure you've got knives flying the moment you see her touch her arm thing to do something with her drone so she can't take advantage of her drone's capabilities and make her way in. Best advice is keep her out as much as possible really.

Anything else then let me or the rest of the Kano forum know and we'll do our best to help.

PS: GGs lol.

 

[Youphemism]

Yup that's what yeuphemism
Can't grasp his mind around

Oh shut up I told you it had to have its recovery changed, so did Erron's B32U1. Stop complaining about a zoning characters rushdown.

 

[dribirut]

Oh shut up I told you it had to have its recovery changed, so did Erron's B32U1. Stop complaining about a zoning characters rushdown.

I'm not. I honestly don't care. Don't really care for his playstyle. Only point I made is that he isn't top anymore. You're the one putting words in my mouth.

 

[M2Dave]

There is no official tier list. Game is over a month old. No idea what you're talking about.

That is actually my statement. People are hating on Dribirut, but I am in full agreement. Kano is no longer a top tier character. But he is still solid and a million times better than Mortal Kombat 9 Kano. Knives alone are not sufficient. You need a great understanding of footsies to win with this character.

 

[CJKRattlehead]

been dancing around between cutthroat and cybernetic as an alternate and really can't see any reason to keep playing cybernetic are there any matchups you guys feel cybernetic outshines cutthroat?

 

[Hitoshura]

That is actually my statement. People are hating on Dribirut, but I am in full agreement. Kano is no longer a top tier character. But he is still solid and a million times better than Mortal Kombat 9 Kano. Knives alone are not sufficient. You need a great understanding of footsies to win with this character.

If one is going to play a total footsies game with a zoner then one should just pick up kenshi.

 

[Youphemism]

been dancing around between cutthroat and cybernetic as an alternate and really can't see any reason to keep playing cybernetic are there any matchups you guys feel cybernetic outshines cutthroat?

D'Vorah, Johnny and Jax for a start, much easier in Cybernetic.

 

[CJKRattlehead]

D'Vorah, Johnny and Jax for a start, much easier in Cybernetic.

I can agree with jax but why D'vorah and johnny?

 

[Youphemism]

I can agree with jax but why D'vorah and johnny?

Because you can't zone them out too. Swarm is barely a worry tbh and you can just walk back to avoid D'Vorahs F22 in footsies and whiff punish. Johnny also needs to be in to do real damage anyway, probably moreso than D'Vorah. His clone in stunt double doesn't reach from full screen and he needs to spend meter to really get in at you if you're zoning well enough against any variation. I don't have much of a problem with any of those three.

 

[CJKRattlehead]

Because you can't zone them out too. Swarm is barely a worry tbh and you can just walk back to avoid D'Vorahs F22 in footsies and whiff punish. Johnny also needs to be in to do real damage anyway, probably moreso than D'Vorah. His clone in stunt double doesn't reach from full screen and he needs to spend meter to really get in at you if you're zoning well enough against any variation. I don't have much of a problem with any of those three.

you can absolutely outzone all three variations of cage with cutthroat and cutthroat has more rewarding footsies so I really don't see the advantage there for cyber. Can't comment much on the d'vorah match no one seems to play her against me atm that better change soon.

 

[Youphemism]

you can absolutely outzone all three variations of cage with cutthroat and cutthroat has more rewarding footsies so I really don't see the advantage there for cyber. Can't comment much on the d'vorah match no one seems to play her against me atm that better change soon.

Yeah but he can just duck all of them or EX Shadow Kick through. He has to either hold or jump over Cyber's knives and he can't armour through in fear of Cyber's EX knives because they break armour unlike Cutthroats. He also gets a much better anti-air in Cybernetic (and Commando but that's not what we're discussing) so that if they jump over the knives or you catch them jumping on a read you get an easy combo. Cutthroat might have more rewarding footsies but they require more meter, and Cybernetic arguably has better footsies with the introduction of his B2 in it which can lead to a full juggle and full screen positioning or even just full screen positioning with B23~BF3.

 

[Lanqu]

So, here I am! Just ended my 48 hours weekend Kano games A small breakdown.

1. vs SubZero Grandmaster 4-6

Seems like an even mu mid screen and awful while cornered. Midscreen I can spam knives. However SZ can regular slide under them or ex slide for sure. Also when he is 2/3 screen to me I can't properly zone because of snowball or JIP. Crossup game is sick, you can d2 him only on hard read. In the corner it is nightmare - ex kano ball leads to knockdown and you can't cancell it or it wont hit at all. But you can ex knives and potentially combo of it.

2. vs Takeda Shirai 4-6

Fullscreen trades are worthless. He can throw his projectiles, he can tele on read or he can dash, or he can jump in and do his ex airial spear for full combo. You cant even block in time due to recovery. Upclose game is ok, but not as powerfull as it was. Something like 6-4 in Kanos favor. Also when he uses his moves he leans back and that makes b1 occasionally whiff and leads to pain. Kanos armor cancel is useless here due to its poor reach. Ex knives is great, but I ive said before each ex knives are 50-50 you gonna score 2 hit blockstring if he blocks, or you gonna bait armor and punish or you gonna be hit by it. Each blocked knife from jump distance leads to pressure. Each blocked takedas d3 leads to pressure because he is +2. Though my b3 sometimes goes over his poke and hits him.

3. vs Ermac with stunning projectile 3-7

At first you cant afford trade. You pressure is interrupted by his fast pokes. Each blocked knive or string results into 50-50 mixup that you must guess. You can try backdash to avoid mixup but lift will get you. You can try D4 poke him, but his run just makes him fly over (!!!) your poke. You can't aa him because of 1 wrong AA leads to 40% dmg and vortex.

4. vs Scorpion Inferno 6-4

That was a new man that has no experience vs Cyb Kano and I made my best at having + frames on 2 and B31. Infernos overhead is shit. It is reactable. Demons are reactable as well. Upclose scropion is no threat. But on distance you must be aware of his tools. Also you cant antiar him with any means you have. His JIK is sick. b1 and d2 are useless. You can armor or backdash through his vortex setups. If opp doesnt know about + frames on b31, 2 and ex knives you will kick his ass completely.

5. vs Sonya Covert Ops 6-4

Rather easy. Though her dive kick is very hard to punish if done right but mixups are. Low and OH from the stance are fuzzyguardable and 30% punishable. Very nice. Armor doesnt suffer from its poor reach. Blocked knives cant be punished.


Lets clarify something about reactable things. I see that guys dont get the math right.
Assume that you have a true block string that starts with a move that has 50 frames recovery duration with -5 on block. Is it reactable if is cut short? It depends on its cancel advantage. Block advantage even doesnt count at all (if it is some amount). If that move is cancelable on its 40 frame then you have only 10 frames (50 - 40 = 10) to react till your advantage will go off. After 10 frames you are both neutral. Well, and thet 10 frames are not reactable.
Lets assume another case. The move is 50 frames recovery duration, -5 on block and can be cancelled into follow up on its 20 frame. So 50 - 20 = 30. So if the move is not cancelled you have 25 frames to understand this and additional 5 frames (minus adv on block) to actually punish it.
So what I want to tell, that reactable or not is not about block advantage but about cancell advatage and recovery. You can't say that move with 36 frames recovery is more reactable that the move with 20 frames recovery till you take into account when the move is cancellable. Things get even more hard when moves look the same or go smooth.
So, b13 is definitely reactable because of its large cancell adv. B1 is reactable too when your opp is aware of that your only option to do a block string is b1 (e.g. he is at -3~-5 and you need something fast to start a blockstring). And that makes you vulnerable. He just buffer backdash and waits follow up. You can complete the blockstring and you will be at -1. There is no threat for your opponent.

Sory for the longpost and my English. Take a potato. Btw @Youphemism, was suprised that you were not playing Kano at ESL.