General/Other - Cutthroat Kano's Cutthroat Variation Discussion Thread

[KingHippo]

Standing 1 I think works fine for most jump-ins. I prefer low profiling since jump-ins across the board seem to be pretty weak and prone to that, but in a pinch standing 1 is probably your man

 

[Rude]

I find that Kano's bigger problem is cross ups than jump in. His d1 is inconsistent, uppercut whiffs...its tough.

So, I'm mainly a Cyber player looking to dig more into Cutthroat and Commando. So I've been working on Cutthroat and i didn't realize how much space Blade Slice covers. Jesus. That HAS to be an amazing whiff punisher, right?

 

[LEGI0N47]

I find that Kano's bigger problem is cross ups than jump in. His d1 is inconsistent, uppercut whiffs...its tough.

So, I'm mainly a Cyber player looking to dig more into Cutthroat and Commando. So I've been working on Cutthroat and i didn't realize how much space Blade Slice covers. Jesus. That HAS to be an amazing whiff punisher, right?

Hell yeah it is. F4 into slice isn't to shabby either.

But yeah the crossovers are a bitch to AA. Only way I've really slowed it down is against people that pretty much keep doing the same thing with commando parry. I block the crossover, parry and they catch on to stop. But in the other two variations I stink at it.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

F2 generally serves the purpose as the go-to whiff punisher, backdash into walk or walk back a jump in, walk back after a blocked d4 etc. and f2 is just the right move for the job. Blade slice has slightly more range than Cybernetic b2, it's around the same area of 3 steps back from starting position, maybe 4 steps depending on stand or crouch block or neutral stance on the opponent. For mid range footsies it's also a nice check against people who are too comfortable just chilling and walking and ducking knives. From max range it's safe, but max range only, I generally use bladeslice as a cancel from f4 and sometimes d4 against characters (and players lol) who can't/won't punish it or armor in between the hits. You move forward and on hit the opponent is pushed back, if they eat a d4 or f4 they are pushed back again and they get cornered pretty quickly if you keep hitting them.

As for crossovers I find uppercuts to be extremely reliable unlike in MK9, they have a hitbox behind the characters head as well, it's just online lag fucking up your timing if they whiff. The general anti-air timing seems to be right after the highest point of your opponents jump.

Edit: Obviously if someone is refusing to block you should f2,1 and hit confirm into the 2, but when the situation is neutral I prefer to come in with f4 or f4 xx bladeslice rather than f2,1.

 

[Farpafraf]

So, I saw earlier @Smoke_Of_Finland talked about the EN powerup being safe off of b121, so I decided to explore this a little further and found this:

http://1drv.ms/1F9ABbi

Basically, Kano can do b12 xx EN powerup, and if it hits, go into a full combo with 112 xx EN Slash, which will lead to about 60% with one bar, and 70 with two. It's completely safe, even against Tempest Lao's spin, and if you hit with a max range overhead, pretty easy to hit confirm. I also show that this is only the EN powerup, and that the regular one gets punished. To me, this makes the overhead super threatening if you have two bars since it essentially becomes a doomsday combo, even midscreen. In the corner, it does similar damage, 62% for a bar and 73% for too. Strong stuff, IMO.

OH MY GOD

 

[Killjoy McGee]

Guys, this might be a weird question, but what can I use to smack the opponent around when I don't expect to combo.
I remember back in Injustice it was super easy to open people up, but here I'm struggling. Anyone got a flowchart for me? :^)

I generally use f21 xx db1 and then d3 or d4 (d3 is probably best for the initial hit and then d4 if you wanna) ending moves in EX Knife Throw would probably work because of the advantage you get on block. I hope this answers your burning questions Dero-Kun!

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

F2,1 xx bladeslice is completely pointless, why not just hit confirm the string into the 2?

Btw here is a combo from 3,2 in the corner:

3,2 - 3 xx ex bladeslice - njp - run cancel b1,2,1 xx Kanoball
35%

Not really that useful, but if your opponent doesn't try to jump out you could try to insta run into 3,2 and use it as a block string, if they do however jump over you they can't punish the whiff with universal tools because Kano moves forward during the 2nd hit and recovers too quickly, they need a divekick or something else and even that requires a read or godlike reactions, where as the b1 and b3 string whiffing will give them enough time to land and punish you before you recover.

 

[Dukmunky]

F2,1 xx bladeslice is completely pointless, why not just hit confirm the string into the 2?

Btw here is a combo from 3,2 in the corner:

3,2 - 3 xx ex bladeslice - njp - run cancel b1,2,1 xx Kanoball
35%

Not really that useful, but if your opponent doesn't try to jump out you could try to insta run into 3,2 and use it as a block string, if they do however jump over you they can't punish the whiff with universal tools because Kano moves forward during the 2nd hit and recovers too quickly, they need a divekick or something else and even that requires a read or godlike reactions, where as the b1 and b3 string whiffing will give them enough time to land and punish you before you recover.

Can we chat about how to get in a position to use your b1 overhead? I'm not having much success because I feel I have to run in to get it, or else jump in and if they block the Jip it wiffs half the time

 

[MrSunshine]

How consistently is everyone connecting the b12-dd3-112?

 

[DFC]

How consistently is everyone connecting the b12-dd3-112?

Like, one in twenty. I've been working on getting more consistent with that and B312 B312 in the corner

I also noticed that Cutthroats 32 has different properties than the rest. seems odd

 

[Zatoichi]

So I recently tried using Cutthroat Kano and I'm coming from Cybernetic and Commando here... how the heck do you guys make his b1 connect? The move virtually has zero range on it, even when I'm right next to the opponent it will still miss sometimes. I know his damage is amazing in this variation but what else does he have going on for him in Cutthroat?

 

[mrtom]

So I recently tried using Cutthroat Kano and I'm coming from Cybernetic and Commando here... how the heck do you guys make his b1 connect? The move virtually has zero range on it, even when I'm right next to the opponent it will still miss sometimes. I know his damage is amazing in this variation but what else does he have going on for him in Cutthroat?

The corner is where cutthroat really shines, especially if your opponent has no meter. I find that I'm able to get a real strong, meterless mixup in the corner by using b12 xx db1 and b31 xx db1. The hit advantage off of db1 is strong enough that your opponent can't do any non-armor attacks and if you should happen to have the power up active the damage piles up real quick. I usually start with a few low pokes to get them blocking low and then I'll overhead them and start the mixup.

Kano also has pretty good cancel pressure. I like to condition my opponent by doing a f4 then immediately block a few times so they try and punish, after that I'll start canceling a blocked f4 into db1 regular or ex. Same with b31, I won't do b321 right away I'll stick with b31 block or backdash and once they start trying to pressure it I'll to b32 xx db1. I like to use ex midscreen and normal in the corner. It does less damage but far more mind games.

Even though all versions have the air kano ball, it's still a great tool in cutthroat. I like to jump back and if I see them whiff a move I'll air ball them.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Can we chat about how to get in a position to use your b1 overhead? I'm not having much success because I feel I have to run in to get it, or else jump in and if they block the Jip it wiffs half the time

Running in is exactly what you need to do. The 50/50 is not a legitimate frametrap after any pokes on hit into a run so you need to make a hard read on your opponent blocking if you want to go for the 50/50. If your opponent refuses to block after getting hit then obviously you need to pummel them with frametraps until they do. The forward dash into instant run cancel is easy to buffer during your opponent's hit stun.

Frametrapping/jailing someone into blocking is a situation they cannot escape with armor or backdashes or anything else. Frametraps for any character are easy to find, you look at the hit advantages of your normals. If you have moves that have faster start up than your hit advantages and those moves can be sequenced after each other (you are in range) without run cancelling, you have a frame trap. If you need to run cancel after something lands (d4 for example), then you lose a few frames for initiating the run. You can test if these sequences are frametraps by recording the dummy doing them and then getting hit by the first poke of the poking sequence. Then, before the 2nd attack you attempt to backdash or you try to mash an x-ray out. If you can't backdash or x-ray then the poking sequence is a frametrap, jails and is completely safe to do, granted that you use safe moves.

 

[Dukmunky]

Running in is exactly what you need to do. The 50/50 is not a legitimate frametrap after any pokes on hit into a run so you need to make a hard read on your opponent blocking if you want to go for the 50/50. If your opponent refuses to block after getting hit then obviously you need to pummel them with frametraps until they do. The forward dash into instant run cancel is easy to buffer during your opponent's hit stun.

Frametrapping/jailing someone into blocking is a situation they cannot escape with armor or backdashes or anything else. Frametraps for any character are easy to find, you look at the hit advantages of your normals. If you have moves that have faster start up than your hit advantages and those moves can be sequenced after each other (you are in range) without run cancelling, you have a frame trap. If you need to run cancel after something lands (d4 for example), then you lose a few frames for initiating the run. You can test if these sequences are frametraps by recording the dummy doing them and then getting hit by the first poke of the poking sequence. Then, before the 2nd attack you attempt to backdash or you try to mash an x-ray out. If you can't backdash or x-ray then the poking sequence is a frametrap, jails and is completely safe to do, granted that you use safe moves.

Wow thank you. That is actually very helpful.

 

[Killjoy McGee]

I've recently started going for a tactic where after one successful combo I've gone for a power up, went in for my next combo and if I successfully pull that off I power down after the second combo. Anyone else doing this? Or something similar?

 

[Dukmunky]

I've recently started going for a tactic where after one successful combo I've gone for a power up, went in for my next combo and if I successfully pull that off I power down after the second combo. Anyone else doing this? Or something similar?

Yes - but I will sometimes power up from further out to create favorable trades with zoners, then find an opening to rush in for a combo. Sometimes powering up can scare people off their offense a bit.

 

[Killjoy McGee]

Yes - but I will sometimes power up from further out to create favorable trades with zoners, then find an opening to rush in for a combo. Sometimes powering up can scare people off their offense a bit.

I'll give this a try next time I'm on!

 

[SubZero]

OH MY GOD

I just watched that video and he used 3 bars, not 2

 

[SaltShaker]

I've been pushing to level up my Cutthroat a little more lately, and man I'm really, really starting to like this variation. My love for Cyber had me over looking this variation more than I thought. It is amazing.

I'm not sure how i took so long to realize it, but I'll be going all out to push it to my Cyber's level.

 

[Dukmunky]

I've been pushing to level up my Cutthroat a little more lately, and man I'm really, really starting to like this variation. My love for Cyber had me over looking this variation more than I thought. It is amazing.

I'm not sure how i took so long to realize it, but I'll be going all out to push it to my Cyber's level.

Welcome to the Dark Side

 

[Dukmunky]

It seems this thread has become significantly less active than cyber and commando. Is that just because people feel this variation is relatively straight forward and doesn't have much potential for new tech, or because most people prefer cyber?

 

[SaltShaker]

It seems this thread has become significantly less active than cyber and commando. Is that just because people feel this variation is relatively straight forward and doesn't have much potential for new tech, or because most people prefer cyber?

I think it's overlooked. I was guilty of this until recently. Also, the better Cyber and Commando mains are regular posters on TYM as well, where as the better Cutthroat main's don't post very often.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

I was messing with combos and found a decent corner combo setup that doesn't sacrifice a lot of damage.

F2,1,2 - b3,1,2 - 1,1,2 xx ex bladeslice - njp or neutral jump kick. 37% damage.

The NJP in particular can be really deceiving, you just cross them over after you land instead of finishing the combo, you can either just do an empty cross-over jump into a back throw when your opponent is still blocking after you "dropped" the combo, or crossover into ex kanoball back into midscreen, or go for the 50/50 again, however if you don't re-launch your opponent you lose positioning.

Also found a meterless corner combo from f2:

F2,1,2 - b3,1,2 - b1,2,1 xx kanoball. 34%. You have to know the exact recovery time of the moves or you will whiff the last hit of b1,2,1. This is nowhere near as strict as double b3,1,2 into 1,1,2 however and IMO should be a staple for offline players.

1 bar corner combo from f2:
F2,1,2 - b3,1,2 - 1,1,2 xx ex bladeslice - njp - 1,1,2 xx kanoball 44%. This is pretty hard and chances are the 2 jab will whiff from the end causing you to net 38%. You can still do 1,1 xx upball/kanoball for 41% though. Edit: you just have to delay the njp so the last 1,1,2 xx kanoball becomes easy to land.

 

[ando1184]

I was messing with combos and found a decent corner combo setup that doesn't sacrifice a lot of damage.

F2,1,2 - b3,1,2 - 1,1,2 xx ex bladeslice - njp or neutral jump kick. 37% damage.

The NJP in particular can be really deceiving, you just cross them over after you land instead of finishing the combo, you can either just do an empty cross-over jump into a back throw when your opponent is still blocking after you "dropped" the combo, or crossover into ex kanoball back into midscreen, or go for the 50/50 again, however if you don't re-launch your opponent you lose positioning.

Also found a meterless corner combo from f2:

F2,1,2 - b3,1,2 - b1,2,1 xx kanoball. 34%. You have to know the exact recovery time of the moves or you will whiff the last hit of b1,2,1. This is nowhere near as strict as double b3,1,2 into 1,1,2 however and IMO should be a staple for offline players.

1 bar corner combo from f2:
F2,1,2 - b3,1,2 - 1,1,2 xx ex bladeslice - njp - 1,1,2 xx kanoball 44%. This is pretty hard and chances are the 2 jab will whiff from the end causing you to net 38%. You can still do 1,1 xx upball/kanoball for 41% though. Edit: you just have to delay the njp so the last 1,1,2 xx kanoball becomes easy to land.

The first combo is actually 32% I hit it consistently and it always says 32% for me, so I started doing f212, b312, 11, 112, ball for 33%. The 2nd combo can actually be altered for the same amount of dmg. I posted in the combo thread that if you do f212, b1, df2, 112, ex db1, njp, 112, ball; it does 44% and is much easier to execute. It even works online

 

[mrtom]

Not sure if this combo has been found yet but I find it easier to pull off consistently online:
112 xx db1 (ex), njp, jf4 xx bf3 (33%)

If you happen to be powered up it's 44% normal power up and 49% ex.

I know b12 and b121 xx ex power up are safe on block but I also discovered that b32 xx ex power up is also safe on block.