General/Other - Cutthroat Kano's Cutthroat Variation Discussion Thread

[Derocus]

How are you guys using Db1? Other than EX db1 combos of course.

The more and more I play Cutthroat the more I'm starting to use it as a huge long range poke.

Something I found useful with the db1 is that you can have a teeny tiny corner vortex.
Only worth using if you're out of meter, but when they're in the corner, just b12xxdb1 or b31xxdb1 to mix the fuck out of 'em

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

41% corner combo from the low starter: b3,1,2 - 1,1 - 3,ex bladeslice - njp - 1,1,2,kanoball. If you do 3,2,ex bladeslice you only get 40% which is weird.
35% from f2-starter with 1 bar: f2,1,2 - 4,ex bladeslice - 4,kanoball
32% hit confirmable midscreen 1 bar from b1: b1,2,1,ex bladeslice, run cancel b1,2,1,kanoball

31% anti-crossover jip combo: 1 - f4,ex bladeslice - run cancel b1,2,1,kanoball
33% AA combo: 1 - 4,ex bladeslice - run cancel b1,2,1,kanoball

What do you guys generally think about Kano's 1-jab as an AA? We don't have Cyber/Commando b1 as an AA, but we have ex bladeslice to convert AA's into 30%+ damage and the combos are not impossible to pull off online ( I think I saw someone post a multiple run jab AA combo for commando that did 27%).

I think we should compile a list of all the characters that are better to just uppercut or upball and those you can somewhat safely challenge with a jab.

Edit: I just tested and you can not consistently convert a d1 that hits the opponent out of the air into f4,ex bladeslice combo, the bladeslice will whiff. You have to settle for d1 - f4,kanoball for 16%.

2nd. Edit: 36% one bar combo from f2: f2,1,2 - 4,ex bladeslice - run cancel b1,2,1,kanoball. I think this is max damage midscreen from f2 with one bar.

 

[Eh SnOwY]

i Put some of ur ideas and added few of my own into a video...

And here is $wag

 

[mrtom]

So I just picked up Kano as an alternate to my main Raiden. I like him a lot but I can't find a way to get any significant damage off an wake up/reversal. Sometimes you need to armor up to get someone off you and stop dealing with 50/50's but such a small amount of damage seems like a waste of meter. Do we have any armored moves that lead into a combo or juggle?

Also, any tips for using the power up? I love the damage output but I can't figure out how to apply it in a real match.

 

[omegapr1me99]

So I just picked up Kano as an alternate to my main Raiden. I like him a lot but I can't find a way to get any significant damage off an wake up/reversal. Sometimes you need to armor up to get someone off you and stop dealing with 50/50's but such a small amount of damage seems like a waste of meter. Do we have any armored moves that lead into a combo or juggle?

Also, any tips for using the power up? I love the damage output but I can't figure out how to apply it in a real match.

From wake up, you can cancel the first hit of an armored Ball (down,down during the Ball) and then combo from it, it does take a small while to get used to and the damage options are limited. I like to cancel the ball into something like 112xxBlade slice and then go for a 50/50 after the blade slice hits.

For the power up, you get a guaranteed buff/EX buff after a hard knockdown from the Ball. This is most useful in the corner, (obviously) I remember either Mustard or Ketchup made a video about it.

EDIT: you can go for a F212 after the cancelled Ball for a lot more damage

 

[smile]

B1,2,1 is 0 on block and is insanely easy to hit confirm. I've found B3,2 to also be hit confirmable but its much harder. Also I think someone mentioned it but didn't go into detail, you can safely do DD3 after ending a combo with BF3 in the corner (tested with tempest kung lao ex spin).

Anyone know of a good aa tool for cutthroat Kano? (Besides upball)

Standing 1 is amazing. Make sure to test it though, might not work against everyone and everything.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

B1,2,1 canceled into ex power up is safe on block, tested with Kano vs Kano. Upball does not punish even when it says "reversal", however I think you can get away with even doing the normal version, upball punishes that one, but Kano's d4 seems to be inconcistent even though I am letting go of block immediately after the last hit is blocked and mash d4.

I think we might be able to get some mileage out of this, what if your opponent is unaware of this tech and decides to mash out a string when he sees that you did the ex power up? They want to hit you out of it, but end up leaving themselves at a disadvantage after you block their string, they might armor afterwards and that you can punish, or they might just block after ending their string which gives you a chance for a 50/50 that can take 48% or 49% with one bar or 57% and 60% with 2 bars if you were sitting on full meter... 1,1,2 punish with ex power up gives you a 64% combo with 2 bars.

I haven't been using the power up, just because I don't like the idea of taking damage, but if the opponent decides to do a wake up in the corner and you just block after using the power up then the punish that follows will most likely win you the round if they have no meter to break. I have been walking forward and then blocking in the corner after bf3 ender, but I realize the power-up move also acts as a huge bait for someone to just try to wake-up and the damage Kano takes as opposed to the damage he can deal is heavily in Kano's favour.

Btw how much is the total damage Kano takes when doing the normal power up? It lasts about 10 seconds I think.

Edit: I did some testing and Kano takes about 13,5 % damage during the power up. Did 2 combos on Kano so he had 26% left, 2 full powerups afterwards resulted in depletion of lifebar and 2 ticks of the new one.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Someone with really good reflexes/a hit box can you try something for me please.

In the corner in Cutt throat is it possible to do a combo using the MB kano ball cancel and get a power up MB or regular into a 50/50 with b3 or B1?

It feels like it's almost possible but very execution heavy to do.

 

[KingHippo]

So, I saw earlier @Smoke_Of_Finland talked about the EN powerup being safe off of b121, so I decided to explore this a little further and found this:

http://1drv.ms/1F9ABbi

Basically, Kano can do b12 xx EN powerup, and if it hits, go into a full combo with 112 xx EN Slash, which will lead to about 60% with one bar, and 70 with two. It's completely safe, even against Tempest Lao's spin, and if you hit with a max range overhead, pretty easy to hit confirm. I also show that this is only the EN powerup, and that the regular one gets punished. To me, this makes the overhead super threatening if you have two bars since it essentially becomes a doomsday combo, even midscreen. In the corner, it does similar damage, 62% for a bar and 73% for too. Strong stuff, IMO.

 

[SaltShaker]

So, I saw earlier @Smoke_Of_Finland talked about the EN powerup being safe off of b121, so I decided to explore this a little further and found this:

http://1drv.ms/1F9ABbi

Basically, Kano can do b12 xx EN powerup, and if it hits, go into a full combo with 112 xx EN Slash, which will lead to about 60% with one bar, and 70 with two. It's completely safe, even against Tempest Lao's spin, and if you hit with a max range overhead, pretty easy to hit confirm. To me, this makes the overhead super threatening if you have two bars since it essentially becomes a doomsday combo, even midscreen. In the corner, it does similar damage, 62% for a bar and 73% for too. Strong stuff, IMO.

I'm going to check this out first chance I get when I get home.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Daaaamn sick find, I didn't even look at the cancel advantage of the earlier hits of the b1 series, just because they were so negative on block.

Btw. I did some testing with ex knife toss and b1,2,1 xx ex knife into f2,1,2 builds around 60% out of 1 bar of meter on block, f2,1xx knife toss builds probably a bit more if you block confirm the string (as you are supposed to, you can't just commit to the last hit without hit confirming against some characters as some can punish it). Opponent has to armor or backdash to escape the f2, even upball doesn't work as a reversal, the text comes out as well as the sound fx but he still gets hit on the ground. Also, if you do instant run cancel into 3,2 after the b1,2,1 xx ex knife it's also a legit frame trap when done properly so that the opponent has to backdash or use armor to escape it.

I hadn't done any testing with the knife previously because I thought the knife just whiffed on crouch block on everything up close as it whiffs when canceled into from f4 on crouch block. It turns out you can cancel into the knife from pretty much everything else and it jails so the opponent can't just neutral crouch the knife as they can neutral crouch Jax's energy wave. I wouldn't necessarily knife toss cancel from f3,3 though, in case your opponent is not on point with his blocking and gets hit by the 2nd hit of f3,3 and if you cancel into knife, the knife will whiff in this situation. F3,3xx knife or ex knife might be something to look into for Commando players as chances are knowledgeable opponents will try to jump, armor or backdash if they anticipate a command grab setup.

Something I encourage people to do also is to fuck around with your opponents wake-ups if you knock them down with 3,2 or b3,1,2. If you walk/run forward a bit and then forward jump you can create the illusion that you want them to block your jump in punch, after they see you in the air they might wake up or stay on the ground, you can attempt to reverse their controls at the last second by kano balling in the air to whiff it over them and then go for the ex unblockable or if you are ballsy you might try to catch them stand blocking with the regular version, not really an EVO-winning tactic but you might do it occasionally to get in your opponents head, the ex version however could easily win you rounds and games if you have the meter to burn and they can't take the damage. The normal air ball low trip does lower Kano's hurtbox, I found out you can at least go under Shinnok's ex shoulder with it and make it whiff.

 

[Zaccel]

So, I saw earlier @Smoke_Of_Finland talked about the EN powerup being safe off of b121, so I decided to explore this a little further and found this:

http://1drv.ms/1F9ABbi

Basically, Kano can do b12 xx EN powerup, and if it hits, go into a full combo with 112 xx EN Slash, which will lead to about 60% with one bar, and 70 with two. It's completely safe, even against Tempest Lao's spin, and if you hit with a max range overhead, pretty easy to hit confirm. I also show that this is only the EN powerup, and that the regular one gets punished. To me, this makes the overhead super threatening if you have two bars since it essentially becomes a doomsday combo, even midscreen. In the corner, it does similar damage, 62% for a bar and 73% for too. Strong stuff, IMO.

Figures, the one day I'm away from the PS4 someone finds this amazing stuff. It's a good day to be a Cutthroat fan.

 

[MrInsaynne]

Cutthroat is too good.

Well.....I think all of his variations are.
I love Kano.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Ok so yesterday I went to the lab to test @KingHippo's b1,2 xx ex power up - 1,1,2 tech and it worked just fine, then I installed the patch and now I can barely get it 1/10 times? What gives? Is this a range specific thing or what?

 

[Devin Thorn]

Would you guys recommend Kano as a good change of pace from Ermac? I main MoS but I wanna get proficient with someone else

 

[SaltShaker]

Would you guys recommend Kano as a good change of pace from Ermac? I main MoS but I wanna get proficient with someone else

For sure.

 

[Devin Thorn]

For sure.

What are his most important mix ups? I'm sure I can figure out a couple thirty percent combos but I have a habit of not always using every tool available

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

You want to play footsies with f4, d4, f2-series, bladeslice and knife toss, condition your opponent to block so you can insta run into the b1/b3 mix up when you think they are gonna block.

some poking flow charts:
d4 on hit jails into insta run f4/f2,1
b3,1 on hit jails into standing 2, which is great since its neutral on block and has a follow-up.
f4 on hit jails into d4
bladeslice on hit jails into d4

 

[Devin Thorn]

Thanks! I'm stoked to try learning him, I feel he's a good matchup for a lot of the cast members that give Ermac trouble. Are his ex knives his best option for shutting down wake up?

 

[Brutal Chimney]

Did yall notice only any nerfs any on this end? suddenly people have been talking shit about this variation and I'm wondering why.

 

[Derocus]

Guys, this might be a weird question, but what can I use to smack the opponent around when I don't expect to combo.
I remember back in Injustice it was super easy to open people up, but here I'm struggling. Anyone got a flowchart for me? :^)

 

[Dukmunky]

You want to play footsies with f4, d4, f2-series, bladeslice and knife toss, condition your opponent to block so you can insta run into the b1/b3 mix up when you think they are gonna block.

some poking flow charts:
d4 on hit jails into insta run f4/f2,1
b3,1 on hit jails into standing 2, which is great since its neutral on block and has a follow-up.
f4 on hit jails into d4
bladeslice on hit jails into d4

Any chance you have a video demonstrating this? If not I can try to make one Monday

 

[KingHippo]

Ok so yesterday I went to the lab to test @KingHippo's b1,2 xx ex power up - 1,1,2 tech and it worked just fine, then I installed the patch and now I can barely get it 1/10 times? What gives? Is this a range specific thing or what?

Shouldn't be. I've found it "easier" if you hit with bax range b1, although the advantage really shouldn't change since he zooms in for the second hit.

Playing around a bit with this, and I still haven't changed my opinion. In second round, if you're built a full bar and the opponent does something that's punishable by b1 it's over 50%, which is huge to me. Imagine playing a MoS Ermac who goes for f4 xx soul ball and punishing for 60%. Or a Mileena who goes for a bad roll. A Cassie who guesses wrong on the flipkick. The punishment potential is really strong and makes Kano super deadly in Cutthroat, imo. Cyber's great and all, but having that locked and loaded is a game changer.

 

[GAMETIME]

which input do you guys use for a jip combo into b1 overhead combo starter, i trired both 1 and 2 but they both sometimes whiff, the b1 has a complex animation

 

[LEGI0N47]

So I have tried to find something to suit my needs but it seems to fall flat in match.

What are you guys using to reliably anti-air in Cutthroat besides d2? The other two variations have that beautiful b1 giving you an easy 15-20something percent for an anit-air which i'll take all day long. I can't seem to get a grasp on it in Cutthroat though. B1 and 11 just aren't cutting it, no pun intended. Thoughts, or am I just screwing up my window that that's all we got?