Question - Kano KANO needs some buffs?

[SaltShaker]

Did you make an account just to downplay? Your first post is one claiming Kano needs buffs, I mean really? No "Hi I'm Superunknown89. I'm, well, super unknown but I like MKX, play Kano and want to join in the discussion"? Why does this keep happening to the Kano community?

What relevance do capture moves, teleports or lunging attacks have to the speed of normals?
Dude, almost all of his strings are safe.
Damage is variation dependent but it being too low is your opinion.
How are his hitboxes/hurtboxes "screwed up" just because you miss throws? I mean there are a few moves with disputed hitboxes but not as many as you're making out.
His jump animation is completely irrelevant, if you feel like he can't get around the projectiles then use air Kano Ball or something.

Not the greatest start...

Accounts like that have to be troll accounts to try to stir up drama.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

K...

No.

 

[GAMETIME]

I'm jus reading everyone's opinions cause I'm not sure where I would place Kano or say what he needs (cutthroat specifically cause that's what I play)

 

[KingHippo]

Methinks a big problem, at least for the cybernetic players, is you guys are obssessed with the idea that he's supposed to sit on the other side of the screen and toss knives, and when that can't be accomplished he goes to shit. This could just be me, but I've always thought of Cyber Kano as a highly agressive character who forces mistakes because it's tough to breathe against knives being flung at you constantly. Believe it or not, people have a really hard time reacting to a mid screen knife flung at them in 12 frames, and since the knife is barely punishable point blank, imagine the reaction time from farther away. Cyber Kano wants you to jump and he has the perfect tools to make you pay for it, but he doesn't do that by sitting 3/4 or full screen, backdashing when close, and then throwing knives again. You walk forward, pressure with those knives, make them think they have a chance to run in, then blast the laser or blast the ex knives and get your damage.

I don't think there's any inherent flaws in his tools, it's just that there are characters who are more silly and easier ways to get damage. That's all.

 

[OG Mannimal]

Methinks a big problem, at least for the cybernetic players, is you guys are obssessed with the idea that he's supposed to sit on the other side of the screen and toss knives, and when that can't be accomplished he goes to shit. This could just be me, but I've always thought of Cyber Kano as a highly agressive character who forces mistakes because it's tough to breathe against knives being flung at you constantly. Believe it or not, people have a really hard time reacting to a mid screen knife flung at them in 12 frames, and since the knife is barely punishable point blank, imagine the reaction time from farther away. Cyber Kano wants you to jump and he has the perfect tools to make you pay for it, but he doesn't do that by sitting 3/4 or full screen, backdashing when close, and then throwing knives again. You walk forward, pressure with those knives, make them think they have a chance to run in, then blast the laser or blast the ex knives and get your damage.

I don't think there's any inherent flaws in his tools, it's just that there are characters who are more silly and easier ways to get damage. That's all.

I agree completely. Thank you for putting my thoughts into words.

 

[Youphemism]

Methinks a big problem, at least for the cybernetic players, is you guys are obssessed with the idea that he's supposed to sit on the other side of the screen and toss knives, and when that can't be accomplished he goes to shit. This could just be me, but I've always thought of Cyber Kano as a highly agressive character who forces mistakes because it's tough to breathe against knives being flung at you constantly. Believe it or not, people have a really hard time reacting to a mid screen knife flung at them in 12 frames, and since the knife is barely punishable point blank, imagine the reaction time from farther away. Cyber Kano wants you to jump and he has the perfect tools to make you pay for it, but he doesn't do that by sitting 3/4 or full screen, backdashing when close, and then throwing knives again. You walk forward, pressure with those knives, make them think they have a chance to run in, then blast the laser or blast the ex knives and get your damage.

I don't think there's any inherent flaws in his tools, it's just that there are characters who are more silly and easier ways to get damage. That's all.

Yeah I'm definitely aggressive with knives, I use them more as a baiting tool than a zoning tool. I start off relentless making them jump thinking it's ok to since I'm going to throw another knife then I either use the next one to anti-air them if they're far away or anti-air them with B1 if they're closer or if they have big jump attacks then I walk back/backdash and try to trip guard. I get more head-on if I'm nearing the corner and need to keep my space at which point they're stuck with the mindgame of "should I anti-air him or will he Kano Ball?" if I decide to jump in at them, or even better over them, and start either B3ing, D3/D4ing, knifing or throwing. Laser is risky since it's a high and full combo punishable and ex knives is ok but it's pretty much B23~BF3 after that unless you're close enough for B1. I'll mess about with the idea of walking forward and pressuring with knives but it's just that there are a bunch of characters with fast advancing normals that kind of prevents us from getting to do that kind of thing as much as we want.

I personally don't think he goes to shit when they get in it's just that when they're close enough we have a 11 frame advancing F4 which is safe and leads to a full combo rather than an unsafe (although at a distance safe) knife that doesn't really lead to much if anything at all. You're right in that he doesn't have flaws, he's one of the most well-balanced characters if not the most well-balanced character in the game, if he actually "needs" anything it's fixes. I don't have trouble using Up Ball and in fact I use it more as a wakeup than an anti-air but some are finding the hitbox/priority a little underwhelming.

 

[KingHippo]

Yeah I'm definitely aggressive with knives, I use them more as a baiting tool than a zoning tool. I start off relentless making them jump thinking it's ok to since I'm going to throw another knife then I either use the next one to anti-air them if they're far away or anti-air them with B1 if they're closer or if they have big jump attacks then I walk back/backdash and try to trip guard. I get more head-on if I'm nearing the corner and need to keep my space at which point they're stuck with the mindgame of "should I anti-air him or will he Kano Ball?" if I decide to jump in at them, or even better over them, and start either B3ing, D3/D4ing, knifing or throwing. Laser is risky since it's a high and full combo punishable and ex knives is ok but it's pretty much B23~BF3 after that unless you're close enough for B1. I'll mess about with the idea of walking forward and pressuring with knives but it's just that there are a bunch of characters with fast advancing normals that kind of prevents us from getting to do that kind of thing as much as we want.

I personally don't think he goes to shit when they get in it's just that when they're close enough we have a 11 frame advancing F4 which is safe and leads to a full combo rather than an unsafe (although at a distance safe) knife that doesn't really lead to much if anything at all. You're right in that he doesn't have flaws, he's one of the most well-balanced characters if not the most well-balanced character in the game, if he actually "needs" anything it's fixes. I don't have trouble using Up Ball and in fact I use it more as a wakeup than an anti-air but some are finding the hitbox/priority a little underwhelming.

Laser is not gonna get full combo punished IMO when it's done at its max range, especially since low blocking is default against Cyber with no overheads. It's not a bad counterpoke option if you've got the opponent respecting a d4 followup. You basically have the longest ranged pokes in the game with one of the better walk speeds, and if there's one thing I've learned about fgs after years, it's that the illusion of a counter attack coming is when people get hurt the worst. Making someone believe they can just throw out this crazy normal after a knife barrage is probably going to be key to getting damage, and regardless of the char, I believe you can make it happen. It's all about conditioning.

Between jab, b1, uppercut, upball and his backwalk, anti air is probably not one of his major issues, I agree.

 

[Rude]

Either way, you're in the minority.

That's racist.

 

[Youphemism]

Laser is not gonna get full combo punished IMO when it's done at its max range, especially since low blocking is default against Cyber with no overheads. It's not a bad counterpoke option if you've got the opponent respecting a d4 followup. You basically have the longest ranged pokes in the game with one of the better walk speeds, and if there's one thing I've learned about fgs after years, it's that the illusion of a counter attack coming is when people get hurt the worst. Making someone believe they can just throw out this crazy normal after a knife barrage is probably going to be key to getting damage, and regardless of the char, I believe you can make it happen. It's all about conditioning.

Between jab, b1, uppercut, upball and his backwalk, anti air is probably not one of his major issues, I agree.

Perhaps, but I've had it whiff a million times after normals like F4 for no apparent reason (which pisses me off) which gets me full combo punished every time that happens. It is good as an armoured move since it's a combo starter but it just means having to use another bar to get to the big boy damage. I really like Kano's walkspeed actually, I've whiff punished Cassies, D'Vorahs, you name it. Feels good to get to whiff punish characters with huge range normals. I mean conditioning is all well and good but you've got to shampoo before you condition, and I feel that shampooing is going to come from making the opponent respect Kano and feel like they have no options because knives are going to get them whatever they do. I'm interested not only in seeing how Kano develops as a character but if he receives anything as a bonus in the next patches, that'd be fun.

 

[Zatoichi]

Kano just needs some tweaks, he is very solid all around as he is right now but IMO I do think he should maybe have the following:

Commando:

• Choke safe on block
• Choke + on hit
• Slight damage buff to command grabs, maybe %2 or %3 damage increase for all command grabs.

Cutthroat:

• Armor to MB db1
• Hitbox adjustment to b1(Slightly farther reach)

Cybernetic:

• Some type of change to his MB up laser, not sure what though.

Unlikely but one can wish.

 

[Youphemism]

Kano just needs some tweaks, he is very solid all around as he is right now but IMO I do think he should maybe have the following:

Commando:

• Choke safe on block
• Choke + on hit
• Slight damage buff to command grabs, maybe %2 or %3 damage increase for all command grabs.

Cutthroat:

• Armor to MB db1
• Hitbox adjustment to b1(Slightly farther reach)

Cybernetic:

• Some type of change to his MB up laser, not sure what though.

Unlikely but one can wish.

The choke changes are fine but a damage increase to the command grabs? They already do 20% lmao. Just give him more tick throw setups, it's more than fair considering Erron Black has about twice the amount and he's not a command grab character...

I don't agree that DB1EX needs armour, he already has armour on EX Buff and that gives him enough damage output. He can then launch meterlessly with F212 so that's not a needed change, plus it's already his best variation, so instead I'd just stick to increasing the hitbox or reducing the backward movement on B1.

Up Laser is pretty useless besides the Brutality and he already has better anti-airs with D2 and B1. I'd give it a startup reduction and a damage boost if it's ever going to be used or even considered useful. I think a slight damage increase is also warranted considering he barely reaches 30% meterless and his midscreen bnb is 35% for a bar. I mean he's no Cassie or Shinnok in the meterless damage department but it wouldn't make him top tier by any means it'd just help him be more competitive in matchups like D'Vorah or Raiden where he arguably only loses because of the damage difference.

 

[DFC]

Yo, command grabs don't need damage. they need to not trade or whiff. Or if you're going to allow it to whiff on certain attacks, you should get a good tick throw setup. I know F33 is one, but I'll be honest. Everyone gets hit with the second 3 against me

 

[Zatoichi]

The choke changes are fine but a damage increase to the command grabs? They already do 20% lmao. Just give him more tick throw setups, it's more than fair considering Erron Black has about twice the amount and he's not a command grab character...

I don't agree that DB1EX needs armour, he already has armour on EX Buff and that gives him enough damage output. He can then launch meterlessly with F212 so that's not a needed change, plus it's already his best variation, so instead I'd just stick to increasing the hitbox or reducing the backward movement on B1.

Up Laser is pretty useless besides the Brutality and he already has better anti-airs with D2 and B1. I'd give it a startup reduction and a damage boost if it's ever going to be used or even considered useful. I think a slight damage increase is also warranted considering he barely reaches 30% meterless and his midscreen bnb is 35% for a bar. I mean he's no Cassie or Shinnok in the meterless damage department but it wouldn't make him top tier by any means it'd just help him be more competitive in matchups like D'Vorah or Raiden where he arguably only loses because of the damage difference.

As long as NRS doesn't need to make his moves unsafe(Which would affect all of his variations) to create tick throws then I'm all for it. I suppose his command grab damage is fine as it is too considering what the other character's command grab damage is.

I guess Kano doesn't NEED MBdb1 armor but it would be nice to have so he has a wake up option. Didn't even know that his MB power up had armor though, that is just hilarious. Is it a viable wake up option? Also, I agree that Cybernetic could revive a damage buff on some of his Variation specific moves so he can do a tad more damage.

 

[Error]

To give Kano more tick throw set-ups NRS would have to adjust blockstun and cancel advantage of normals, I'm not sure if they've ever done anything like that.

@DougDFC if opponents keep getting hit by f33 don't cancel into grab instead uss the hit advantage to grab them or go for another string until they start blocking the low.

 

[Youphemism]

As long as NRS doesn't need to make his moves unsafe(Which would affect all of his variations) to create tick throws then I'm all for it. I suppose his command grab damage is fine as it is too considering what the other character's command grab damage is.

I guess Kano doesn't NEED MBdb1 armor but it would be nice to have so he has a wake up option. Didn't even know that his MB power up had armor though, that is just hilarious. Is it a viable wake up option? Also, I agree that Cybernetic could revive a damage buff on some of his Variation specific moves so he can do a tad more damage.

I dunno I haven't played Cutthroat much recently but I'd assume it's a decent wakeup option. I mean it has armour so it can absorb a hit then you get a damage buffed punish so you can't go wrong with something like that lol.

To give Kano more tick throw set-ups NRS would have to adjust blockstun and cancel advantage of normals, I'm not sure if they've ever done anything like that.

Not sure if sarcastic or...

 

[MsMiharo]

Fixes:
* Command throws whiffing all over the place is not so neat. Also if you MB it for the armor it should be able to grab the opponent out of the string -_-.
* b1 in CT to be able to hit stuff.

Luxury buffs:

* b1 to recover quicker, somewhere in between what it is now and what it was before.
* b2, air ball and up ball to have higher priority.
* Up Laser and Choke to be... Useable.
* MB buff in CT to not go away on hit.
* Kano Ball to be a true HKD

 

[Hitoshura]

I KNOW ALL YOUR MOVES, SONYA!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Buffs: Change the meta to a more footsie based game where one needs to open their opponent up by conditioning their opponent and Kano will be fine. He's solid a hell. You take Kano and place him in an actual fighting game and he'd be awesome. A tier guaranteed. MKX has it's own mechanics, meta, and gimmicks that keep Kano from shining.

 

[GAV]

I KNOW ALL YOUR MOVES, SONYA!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Buffs: Change the meta to a more footsie based game where one needs to open their opponent up by conditioning their opponent and Kano will be fine. He's solid a hell. You take Kano and place him in an actual fighting game and he'd be awesome. A tier guaranteed. MKX has it's own mechanics, meta, and gimmicks that keep Kano from shining.

I think he just fits into a niche that's different from how players are used to playing him. He's not a full screen giant anymore, but just outside sweep range - he's an absolute killer when played correctly.

I had a lot of success playing Commando Kano relative to my level of skill. I played very aggressively. I tossed knives after moving in a bit. Then, I played off my opponent's reactions. If they went airborne, I used Kano's Cannonballs. If they approached patiently, I'de catch them with a combo that would finish with his choke - or - if they were playing footsies, I would use his counter. The game wasn't complex, but it seemed to befuddle most players. Now, I don't really know much about the other variations - but Commando has tools to do work.

 

[Error]

Not sure if sarcastic or...

Have they ever adjusted normals to allow more tick throws? No sarcasm.

 

[Youphemism]

Have they ever adjusted normals to allow more tick throws? No sarcasm.

Oh well adjusting moves for more tick throws I don't know but they have changed the blockstun/cancel advantage of moves before I'm pretty sure. I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or not since they changed the properties on one of Kano's moves and you were posting in a Kano thread lol.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

what would you want to be a tick throw that isnt already? Here is what isn't:

B3
B31
B312
1
11
112
F4
B1
B13
2
2F4
32

thats just off the top fill in any I missed. I guess out of those if you really wanted one 32 would be ok because its range is pretty booty but that would give some incentive to use it. I feel like any of the others would be two strong when added to the options we already have. Imagining just 2 being able to tick throw even is pretty glorious though. The mixup would actually be quite insane. You could just alternate 2, D4 and the pressure would be would good if you converted the tick grabs off both the D4 and 2.

11 would be good too for the stagger since there's already a gap between 11 and 112 anyway.

 

[Error]

Kano is such a low damage character that thinking giving him ticks on one of his good strings would be too much is ridiculous, especially when 21122 exists. I'd say b31 should tick since the full string doesn't lead to anything outside of the corner, and 1 or 11.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

mmmmm b31 being a tick is a spicy meatball. I could get on board.

 

[MsMiharo]

If b13 was a tick it would be so godlike.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I dont even dare dream of it. I feel dirty.