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Question - Kano KANO needs some buffs?

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
So Coach Steve and Hippo are just winning because people don't know the matchup? Lol please.
I told myself I'd stop coming back to this thread, but I just remembered this part.

I hate this argument, because it ignores the player. A really good player can make mid tier(or even low tier) characters look really good, just like a really good character can make a good player look great.

(Note that this has nothing to do with whether or not Kano does/n't need buffs, just my $.02)
 
I facepalm at the argument that lack of representation at majors = bad character or only one good player of said characters. Frankly that's just ignorance. Lack of representation can come down to several things:

- The character doesn't fit the archetype/playstyle of character others want to play
- Most of the mains of that character don't go to many competitions
- People would rather play a braindead free win character and will pick the best and/or easiest character in the game instead
- People are loyal to a specific other character despite their playstyle, otherwise they might have ended up playing someone like said underrepresented character
- They tried the character and just didn't want to play them lol
That's very true. Also, there is a correlation between character tournament representation and placement on the tier list. People are going to do better in tournaments with better characters. Of course there is going to be outliers.

If players start blowing it up with kano, people will think kano isn't low-mid tier anymore. Which is silly, because nothing actually changed about the character - only hivemind perception.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Lack of representation does not necessarily mean the character is bad, occasionally (but not often) it can be that but there are other reasons as to why a character could be underrepresented. Let's look at some examples: Digit and Indecisive played Shazam in Injustice who was relatively low tier, Insuperable and Dink played Quan Chi who was relatively low tier in MK9. There were rarely many Kenshis in competition, and Batgirls, but that doesn't mean the character was bad nor does it mean there were no other mains for that character.

Well, I'm pretty sure xSmokex and Max have been playing Shinnok since the start, and there aren't many Kano mains that enter competitions besides maybe Decay, Hippo and Coach Steve (at least right now), none of which have been at majors recently as far as I'm aware. Lets not be too hasty here...

We don't need him to be easy, we just want all his tools to work properly.
I agree and disagree. I think it somewhat is preference, but also because of the character. There are specialist and loyalist in every game true, but if he was as good as the "he's perfectly fine, Top 10 character who needs no buffs" believe him to be then there's no way in hell you wouldn't see him more. As much as people like you and I love our character we main, there are many manyyyy more people who look for the "Top 10 character that fits their play". Which is why so many people who started with Kano have either dropped him now or picked up Top 10 secondaries.

A perfect example of "player loyalty" vs "tier whoring" is Bojutsu Kung Jin. EVERY tournament and many locals where bombarded with Kung Jin's the first few weeks of release. At my local the 2nd week there were 3 Kung Jin's in Top 8. At the tournaments pools were filled with Kung Jin matches followed by more Kung Jin matches. Why? Because everyone thought he was the best in the game. The same character that was universally bashed, laughed at during the Kombat Kast variation reveal, had by far more representation than any other character. Fast forward to today and a still Top 10 Kung Jin is seen half as much as he was before. Why? Because he was slightly nerfed while also people seeing he wasn't the best.

Also, Kenshi kind of goes against that argument. A year and a half into MK9 I think 75% of the player base had pocket Kenshi's lol. After a while you couldn't watch a Top 8 anymore without someone losing and pulling out their pocket Kenshi in game 2 lol. I doubt all those players with pocket Kenshi's even liked the character, as his player pool in MKX is much smaller, but they jumped on what they thought would win.

The people who will go with their character out of "liking them for the character" is few and far between. Like, you know Pig will play Kenshi and Bit will play Kitana, but many other people pick up the game and look for who they can win with that compliments their style. They try out characters and end up playing Raiden, QC, Cage Fam, The Kung's, The Brigg's, D'Vorah, The Ninja's, Erron, etc. Then they look at Kano and say "Who? Yea right. I got a tournament next week". That's the main reason why I think we don't see him used much.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
I believe Hippo primarily uses Cutthroat
I think he posted footage of him playing Cybernetic somewhere, there was a Twitch archive I was watching. He might play Cutthroat now He plays Kitana he says.
I told myself I'd stop coming back to this thread, but I just remembered this part.

I hate this argument, because it ignores the player. A really good player can make mid tier(or even low tier) characters look really good, just like a really good character can make a good player look great.

(Note that this has nothing to do with whether or not Kano does/n't need buffs, just my $.02)
Okay but your reasoning also ignores the opponent. It's not like he's playing scrubs all the time.
There are specialist and loyalist in every game true, but if he was as good as the "he's perfectly fine, Top 10 character who needs no buffs" believe him to be then there's no way in hell you wouldn't see him more.
Hmm it depends. We see more representatives of lower tier characters than some of the top 10 so I don't know about that. But we'll never really know since he's not top 10 lol. You're kind of proving my point here
Fast forward to today and a still Top 10 Kung Jin is seen half as much as he was before. Why? Because he was slightly nerfed while also people seeing he wasn't the best.
because people go for the best characters to pocket, not necessarily just top 10 characters. That's why there were so many pocket Aquamans but not so many pocket Banes.
The people who will go with their character out of "liking them for the character" is few and far between. Like, you know Pig will play Kenshi and Bit will play Kitana, but many other people pick up the game and look for who they can win with that compliments their style. They try out characters and end up playing Raiden, QC, Cage Fam, The Kung's, The Brigg's, D'Vorah, The Ninja's, Erron, etc. Then they look at Kano and say "Who? Yea right. I got a tournament next week". That's the main reason why I think we don't see him used much.
I mean I do that with Cybernetic Kano and decided to go with him when it came to competition time because I felt he was my best chance to win because I was comfortable with him and felt like I'd do well to zone out all the rushdown mixup characters. Kano wasn't really my first choice (but since Fujin wasn't in GODDAMNIT I went with him) but I liked how he played and I thought he was fine. Coach Steve mains Kano and tries to win tournaments with him, I think it's just more of a preference of style or everyone would just play the legit best character in the game but there's a wide variety. As I (think I) mentioned earlier most of the Kano community don't travel much (which seems to be a common theme with characters I play lololol) so that's also a factor.
 
I hear what you're saying, but it means nothing.

Being able to play "any style you want" sounds good on paper, but then what? If Hellfire Scorpion can simply body all 3 versions of Kano then it's irrelevant that he can "do it all but excels in none". He just gets bodied in all 3 variations by 1 characters 1 variation lol.
uninterruptable cancels need to go though
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
I mean, no it doesn't but okay.
Yes it does ignore the opponent. You're saying that anyone can make a mid tier character look good and if that were the case then they'd be playing bad/uninformed players, right? But that reasoning ignores the fact that their opponents aren't bad. Don't just say "no it doesn't" without reasoning -___-
 
Reactions: GAV

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
most of the community (some of which actually go to competitions and play offline with other people instead of caressing TYM with the soft touch of word vomit for most of the day) are saying the same as what I'm saying whereas you just have M2Dave agreeing with you.
LOL this is not only funny, but actually pretty accurate. Let's be realistic, if M2Dave says something, the safer bet would be that the opposite of what he says is closer to the truth. The guy has no concept of how this game works, has literally said himself that hates this game, and had the most outstanding track record for being wrong that I've ever seen. Having him in here arguing that Kano needs buffs and should be top tier is hurting that cause more than helping it.


I facepalm at the argument that lack of representation at majors = bad character or only one good player of said characters. Frankly that's just ignorance. Lack of representation can come down to several things:

- The character doesn't fit the archetype/playstyle of character others want to play
- Most of the mains of that character don't go to many competitions
- People would rather play a braindead free win character and will pick the best and/or easiest character in the game instead
- People are loyal to a specific other character despite their playstyle, otherwise they might have ended up playing someone like said underrepresented character
- They tried the character and just didn't want to play them lol

Lack of representation does not necessarily mean the character is bad, occasionally (but not often) it can be that but there are other reasons as to why a character could be underrepresented. Let's look at some examples: Digit and Indecisive played Shazam in Injustice who was relatively low tier, Insuperable and Dink played Quan Chi who was relatively low tier in MK9. There were rarely many Kenshis in competition, and Batgirls, but that doesn't mean the character was bad nor does it mean there were no other mains for that character.

Well, I'm pretty sure xSmokex and Max have been playing Shinnok since the start, and there aren't many Kano mains that enter competitions besides maybe Decay, Hippo and Coach Steve (at least right now), none of which have been at majors recently as far as I'm aware. Lets not be too hasty here...

We don't need him to be easy, we just want all his tools to work properly.
You pretty much nailed it dude, there is a lot of one sided reasoning going on in here ("Kano doesn't have a huge competitive playerbase? Must need some buffs!") their that it's good to see a bit of sensible reasoning in here.

We aren't asking for him to be top tier because we're not stupid
I'd just like to point out that the overwhelming majority of people still in this thread actually are asking for this, have literally said it word for word, and will admit it right now in response to this post, so it's not a secret that this is being requested at all.

I mean, no it doesn't but okay.
Well actually, yes it does, it seemed like you were making the statement that a good player can make a bad character seem good, but in reality they can't do this at all even against an opponent of equal skill using a good character, because he will make make the good character seem even better.
 
Reactions: GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
LOL this is not only funny, but actually pretty accurate. Let's be realistic, if M2Dave says something, the safer bet would be that the opposite of what he says is closer to the truth. The guy has no concept of how this game works, has literally said himself that hates this game, and had the most outstanding track record for being wrong that I've ever seen. Having him in here arguing that Kano needs buffs and should be top tier is hurting that cause more than helping it.




You pretty much nailed it dude, there is a lot of one sided reasoning going on in here ("Kano doesn't have a huge competitive playerbase? Must need some buffs!") their that it's good to see a bit of sensible reasoning in here.


I'd just like to point out that the overwhelming majority of people still in this thread actually are asking for this, have literally said it word for word, and will admit it right now in response to this post, so it's not a secret that this is being requested at all.



Well actually, yes it does, it seemed like you were making the statement that a good player can make a bad character seem good, but in reality they can't do this at all even against an opponent of equal skill using a good character, because he will make make the good character seem even better.
You can't win a pillow-fight with logic. :p
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
if he was as good as the "he's perfectly fine, Top 10 character who needs no buffs" believe him to be then there's no way in hell you wouldn't see him more.
I'm sorry but I think right here your entire argument in that posts falls apart. He isn't top 10 and I haven't seen anyone say otherwise, so I don't think this crowd exists, however he is fine in the sense that he does not need to be buffed.

It feels a little like you are attaching a ridiculous statement that nobody has said to the argument of people who disagree that Kano needs buffs, and using that to discredit them.

Yes, if Kano was top tier he would get a lot more "win whoring" with players looking to abuse his OP'ness in regards to the rest of the crowd, but the fact that this doesn't happen is no supporting logic to the statement that he needs buffs, and certainly no justification to add him to the pool of characters that are OP in regards to the majority of the cast. Kano is in a real good place.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Observing PPJ's tier list thread, the vast majority of people list Kano as a low mid tier character.

Edit: And I am sure they all suck.
 
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I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
You say that like being mid tier is not where we want all characters as close to as possible.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I'm sorry but I think right here your entire argument in that posts falls apart. He isn't top 10 and I haven't seen anyone say otherwise, so I don't think this crowd exists, however he is fine in the sense that he does not need to be buffed.

It feels a little like you are attaching a ridiculous statement that nobody has said to the argument of people who disagree that Kano needs buffs, and using that to discredit them.

Yes, if Kano was top tier he would get a lot more "win whoring" with players looking to abuse his OP'ness in regards to the rest of the crowd, but the fact that this doesn't happen is no supporting logic to the statement that he needs buffs, and certainly no justification to add him to the pool of characters that are OP in regards to the majority of the cast. Kano is in a real good place.
There must be some posts you missed along the way, because a couple of people called him "Top 10" and "needs no buffs in anything at all". -.-
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Ok fair enough I've missed them but if that's the case they are silly people, because he is not top 10 and could use hitbox fix
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Ok fair enough I've missed them but if that's the case they are silly people, because he is not top 10 and could use hitbox fix
Those were Kano main's too which sparked some of the divide lol. I made some bold claims myself but I'm realistic enough to know where he stands and the minimal tweaks he needs.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Haha you need buffs too. Even though technically you don't for your incredibly, criminally underrated character, but technically you do. :DOGE
I'm just a vocal minority. The community is the one who says so. With a representative like Drilledbutt, you guys shouldn't need anything but a swift sodomizing with a nerf bat