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Match-up Discussion Juicy VIII.c: My Final(ized) MU chart

ForeverKing

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
rev0lver said:
Pretty much every game (other than 3D i guess?) has strong zoners and strong zoning matchups. I wouldn't say this game is really dominated by it at all though, there's only a few characters/mu's where it's really a game-changing thing that can't just be normally dealt with
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Yeah I would say zoning doesn't dominate Injustice. But I wouldn't say zoning is unviable.

That's two totally different things.
 
cR WoundCowboy

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
FOREVER KING said:
But it's still zoning nonetheless. You can't say zoning is unviable in Injustice if it happens, even if only some matchups it still happens. You could say zoning doesn't dominate injustice, or zoning doesn't happen that often.... But zoning unviable? Nah
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It's unviable in the sense that characters not named Martian or Zod have a very low chance of winning a tournament. Raven in particular is in trouble when she runs into a character that deals with her zoning because she doesn't really have anything to fall back on if her zoning is nullified.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
cR WoundCowboy said:
It's unviable in the sense that characters not named Martian or Zod have a very low chance of winning a tournament. Raven in particular is in trouble when she runs into a character that deals with her zoning because she doesn't really have anything to fall back on if her zoning is nullified.
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Raven has excellent footsies and whiff punishing, plus a great backwalk speed.

She doesn't have to sit there and literally throw out dark energy after dark energy after soul crush to win. If she thinks they'll hit a button, she soul crushes. Or if she's traited up, she'll use the grab and go into a big combo.

Ducky doesn't just sit there and zone. He plays footsies from max range and whiff punishes, which is apart of zonining. She's fine.

Zoning isn't just throwing shit. It's space controlling, using the threat of your projectiles to make them hesitate, punishing their attempts to get in(Blowing up forward Dashes is something Raven excels at), whiff punishing, and using your normals/strings from their max range so that they respect your space which allows you to continue to zone.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Here's another example:

One of the things that makes Harley such a huge pain to fight, and part of what makes her good, is her zoning.

She uses guns to frustrate you into moving at inopportune times. Her guns are +, so it makes dashing in toward her difficult. Then, once you're in her "sweet spot" on the screen, she has the threat of blowing up your jump-ins with her ridiculously good air attacks that have a lot of priority, blowing up forward dashes with d1 into tantrum stance/b22, etc, etc. Also, her cupcakes are HEAVILY + on block so if you move after that, she can definitely blow you up. So you have to stand still for respect of the next gunshot/cupcake/etc. Once you're standing there, waiting for her to mess up so you can move in, she starts jumping and going into pressure/mix-ups.

She's just an example, and she zones fine. I don't even...I don't understand how these concepts are so hard to grasp, and I'm an intermediate player at best.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Eldriken said:
If everyone in this thread got an infraction for every single post that was off-topic (not discussing Doomsday!), there'd be a whole lot of banned people. lolol
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I've been meaning to say that I sympathize with Doomsday mains. It must be extremely frustrating when lesser players constantly attack your community for playing a "simple" and "braindead" character that "doesn't play footsies". You know, basically anything that peckapowa has ever said about the character.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
Rude said:
I've been meaning to say that I sympathize with Doomsday mains. It must be extremely frustrating when lesser players constantly attack your community for playing a "simple" and "braindead" character that "doesn't play footsies". You know, basically anything that peckapowa has ever said about the character.
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I have fun going back and forth with Pecka. Him and I talk about it a lot. He seems pretty adamant when he says I'm going to be free in MKX. But I think he's merely joking.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Eldriken said:
I have fun going back and forth with Pecka. Him and I talk about it a lot. He seems pretty adamant when he says I'm going to be free in MKX. But I think he's merely joking.
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Generally speaking, I'm pretty against the idea of any character in any fighting game being, "braindead," especially at higher levels of play. Even a character with a simple toolset has to be creative in how to use that toolset because of how small it is. Am I making sense?

I mean...it's just such a poor talking point that does a huge disservice to anyone who mains the supposed, "braindead" characters.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
Rude said:
Generally speaking, I'm pretty against the idea of any character in any fighting game being, "braindead," especially at higher levels of play. Even a character with a simple toolset has to be creative in how to use that toolset because of how small it is. Am I making sense?

I mean...it's just such a poor talking point that does a huge disservice to anyone who mains the supposed, "braindead" characters.
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Yeah, you're making perfect sense. People think that Doomsday is braindead because he gets in for "free" with MB Venom and then he has ridiculous oki and pressure due to Earth Shake.

Yeah, well, if he's that braindead, anyone could pick him up and win with him, which isn't happening, obviously.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
There is so much cuntiness going on in this thread. @cR WoundCowboy please just stop. It's getting embarrassing. You're making yourself look so dumb. Also revolver is dead on with the Raven thingy. @Rude how does Raven excel at stuffing dash ins? Any character in the game can do it. All you do is just throw out a normal randomly or special randomly. I wouldn't say any character is more equipped to do it than any other character.

Also Cowboys right about the zoning thing. Like Sinestro & Raven mostly play footsies outside of a few mus where they can just go to town. Watch my matches from kit and tell me how many I won because of zoning compared to footsies.

Zoning- murk, Kings bill ass batman,

Footsies- pnut, cowboy, deg(didn't use trait once barely used fireballs either), Kings bill ass Grundy, honeybee.

And even if we are totally wrong about everything we know in fighting games. Who cares. Cowboy and I are better than almost all of you so who gives a fuck. Stay free fools.
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Eldriken said:
Yeah, you're making perfect sense. People think that Doomsday is braindead because he gets in for "free" with MB Venom and then he has ridiculous oki and pressure due to Earth Shake.

Yeah, well, if he's that braindead, anyone could pick him up and win with him, which isn't happening, obviously.
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I don't think being braindead means insta-win. It just means that Doomsday is very simple and mb venom is pretty anti-everything.

I don't think he is brain dead for the record, but I do understand where people are coming from when they say that, even if it is a bit overstated.
 
YOMI DJT

YOMI DJT

LIn Kuei Champion
gross said:
I don't know why people keep talking about DD vs GL I already said that is 6-4 GL favor so you like it or not I'm the best GL and nobody can beat me with DD the only one that can make the MU look even Is Noobe because we play each other all the time and he knows that the GL beat DD but now I'll say it again:

if you think that DD beat GL.well i believe that my next tournament will be Final Round so all you have to do is challenge me and put money on the table and I swear I'm going to show you how bad I'll beat you ass.
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You won't beat me
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Noob
cR WoundCowboy said:
Raven and Cyborg basically just have their zoning, which really hurts them in alot of MUS. How do they get their damage? It's basically a combination of chip and forcing mistakes in movement. They don't have good mixups. The other characters that I mentioned are deadly because they have decent zoning and good offense.
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That's how high level ''zoning'' should be. Characters winning matchups just because they can keep chucking fireballs are bad gamedesign imo.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
Blind_Ducky said:
There is so much cuntiness going on in this thread. @cR WoundCowboy please just stop. It's getting embarrassing. You're making yourself look so dumb. Also revolver is dead on with the Raven thingy. @Rude how does Raven excel at stuffing dash ins? Any character in the game can do it. All you do is just throw out a normal randomly or special randomly. I wouldn't say any character is more equipped to do it than any other character.

Also Cowboys right about the zoning thing. Like Sinestro & Raven mostly play footsies outside of a few mus where they can just go to town. Watch my matches from kit and tell me how many I won because of zoning compared to footsies.

Zoning- murk, Kings bill ass batman,

Footsies- pnut, cowboy, deg(didn't use trait once barely used fireballs either), Kings bill ass Grundy, honeybee.

And even if we are totally wrong about everything we know in fighting games. Who cares. Cowboy and I are better than almost all of you so who gives a fuck. Stay free fools.
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Thank u, cowboy is going way too crazy haha. Also MKX is a new game so everyone starts fresh :p, so now u have to be better than almost everyone in MKX (which tbh I am sure y'all will anyways)
 
ForeverKing

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Blind_Ducky said:
And even if we are totally wrong about everything we know in fighting games. Who cares. Cowboy and I are better than almost all of you so who gives a fuck. Stay free fools.
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You know ever since KiT you've became extremely cocky. You got your first 2nd place ever, congratulations lol. The level of your shit talk and cockiness would lead some people to believe you're like a 3 time Evo champion.

You've accomplished like 1/8 of what I've accomplished in fighting games, yet your more than twice as cocky as me. Being proud is one thing, but you go a little far. Calm down son lmao
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
FOREVER KING said:
You know ever since KiT you've became extremely cocky. You got your first 2nd place ever, congratulations lol. The level of your shit talk and cockiness would lead some people to believe you're like a 3 time Evo champion.

You've accomplished like 1/8 of what I've accomplished in fighting games, yet your more than twice as cocky as me. Being proud is one thing, but you go a little far. Calm down son lmao
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FOREVER KING said:
Then he must not be that hyped up as Cowboy makes him out to be of nobody can do well with him lol
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Lol ask anyone I talk to regularly. I've always been this cocky. Just haven't posted a lot on here till recently. All those accomplishments and I still bopped you free-0 lol.

No actually batmans good. Ryan may go a little over board but the character can still place or probably even win a tournament on his own. the problem is the people who use him aren't good enough to do that.
 
ForeverKing

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Batman has more top 8s than any character and it's because me, what are you talking about Batman can't make top 8 lol. I won last KiT with nothing but Batman....

I swear everything you and Cowboy say, you contradict yourselves
 
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