Match-up Discussion Joker Matchup Discussion

[Glass Sword]

I really need to play a good Joker off line or get better Internet.
I can give one piece of advice in the match up however. You can parry venom. If you see a full screen venom parry it, the Doomsday would have to meter burn at the last second to armor through it (which I don't think is possible).
Secondly 99.9% of the time Doomsday is going to check you with d1 after a frame trap the first time one is blocked to make you respect it you can parry that. After you establish you will do that you have a few more options since most will sweep or throw you or they could just earth shaker, but you can at least poke out of that.
You got options, but Quark summarized it quite nicely.

 

[Nasdi]

Hello everyone,
Reading this forum post makes me regret giving up on joker. he's the only one i like but i hate the fact that i have to spam teeth to have a chance....i like playing smart and setting up combos which is something i find in joker but unfortunately i find his attacks are very slow on startup and almost everyone i play against has faster attacks. i did win a fair ammount of games but i can barely get combos off, it's usually teeth setup, grab, JI3. i gave up on joker and decided to learn superman but it's really not my style

If anyone wants to practice with me and help get my joker better, add me on XBL : nasdi2 i have a pretty awesome connection, i swear

 

[SquirtMcGirt]

I am really struggling against the flash. I just picked up the character about three days ago and feel in love. Love that joker. But it seems like flash gas some crazy good options to approach. Then when he's in he has a really good 50/50 he can abuse. Any one have any tips on this fight I am lost lol.

 

[SquirtMcGirt]

Does joker have any wake up options? I can't seem to find one

 

[Octakel]

Acid Flower is a pretty good wakeup move. Also backdash is pretty viable.
But let's face it. Most characters have terrible wakeup options in this game.

 

[laudanum09]

Flower is actually pretty good. Test it in training. Record a dummy doing sweep and then a meaty.

Never train wakeups against a dummy set to wakeup because for now they are granted a few extra frames of invulnerability that human opponents are not so it's actually a terrible way to gauge whether a meaty will beat a specific wakeup.

 

[SunLord5]

What about fighting lex? Seems like I can't do much on lex

Who is this Lex that you fight I wanna vs him. I have not found a good Lex yet.

 

[JaredL]

How do you deal with HAwkgirl? Everything she does is safe.

 

[smileforme]

whats the deal of this topic i cant read anything.. all it says is spoiler ? and when i click on it its empty.......

 

[Chakk dizzle]

I honestly think hawkgirl may be one of his worst matchups. Could be a lack of experience as well, but I cant seem to find many options.

 

[Necrophia]

I honestly think hawkgirl may be one of his worst matchups. Could be a lack of experience as well, but I cant seem to find many options.

Most of Hawkgirl attacks are in the air or have a very quick response. Since is mostly in the air she can't be easily teethed like the rest of the cast.
The only reliable anti-air coming from Joker against her is d2. j3 is good but Hawkgirl game is mostly aerial and has a lot of tools against it. High gas tank is reliable in this match but she can counter it depending of the range.

Probably the best option is to keep some distance and watch out with her mace projectiles. Specially the one which MBs for get close.

 

[Jack White]

Here's something I found that's pretty interesting, b1 beats a lot of wake up attacks out outright. Even with all their invincibility. Kills DS's sword flip clean, and Batgirl's teleport doesn't work either... I think. It's weird, but when I'm in a match and she does the teleport on wake up and I hit her with the b1 combo beats her out for sure. In the lab though it does not work. Deathstroke's flip however will lose every time.

 

[laudanum09]

Here's something I found that's pretty interesting, b1 beats a lot of wake up attacks out outright. Even with all their invincibility. Kills DS's sword flip clean, and Batgirl's teleport doesn't work either... I think. It's weird, but when I'm in a match and she does the teleport on wake up and I hit her with the b1 combo beats her out for sure. In the lab though it does not work. Deathstroke's flip however will lose every time.

Like I said in my post above yours, it's a practice mode glitch. AI set to wakeup gains extra invincibility frames so it's best to set practice options to control player 2 (your opponent) and then record Joker as AI to do a sweep, then a meaty attack like b.1 and you can really test the true invincibility frames. DS Sword Flip has none, meaty crossups beat it too. Same with a lot of other moves. I need to go back and test flower again because the AI would stuff my meaty everytime so I need to find out if it's legit in a real match.

 

[Jack White]

Like I said in my post above yours, it's a practice mode glitch. AI set to wakeup gains extra invincibility frames so it's best to set practice options to control player 2 (your opponent) and then record Joker as AI to do a sweep, then a meaty attack like b.1 and you can really test the true invincibility frames. DS Sword Flip has none, meaty crossups beat it too. Same with a lot of other moves. I need to go back and test flower again because the AI would stuff my meaty everytime so I need to find out if it's legit in a real match.

Oh I see. My bad then, made a lot of assumptions with that one. And that sounds like an annoying glitch.

 

[laudanum09]

Oh I see. My bad then, made a lot of assumptions with that one. And that sounds like an annoying glitch.

No worries, it's actually a rather unpopular thread in the Game Topics sub forum and I'm surprised more people aren't on it. I don't think it applies to reversals though.

I wanna get into frame traps and some of that block advantage science on here more so I think I'll make a thread tomorrow at work.

 

[RIF]

Characters that kill me as Joker:

- Superman
- Batman
- Aquaman
- Killer Frost
- Cyborg
- Green Latern
- Deathstroke (Even post nerf)
- Ares
- Doomsday
- Black Adam
- Flash
- Nightwing

Pretty much every character.

I don't think there's a SINGLE match-up in his favor, OUTSIDE of Lex and even that one might be 5-5.

I love this character and I feel like he's "good", but I cannot get my offense started...like...ever. "Good" is relative. He has NOTHING that you can abuse. The priority on his normals seems TERRIBLE.

 

[CrazySlasher]

Characters that kill me as Joker:

- Superman
- Batman
- Aquaman
- Killer Frost
- Cyborg
- Green Latern
- Deathstroke (Even post nerf)
- Ares
- Doomsday
- Black Adam
- Flash
- Nightwing

Pretty much every character.

I don't think there's a SINGLE match-up in his favor, OUTSIDE of Lex and even that one might be 5-5.

I love this character and I feel like he's "good", but I cannot get my offense started...like...ever. "Good" is relative. He has NOTHING that you can abuse. The priority on his normals seems TERRIBLE.

I think Bane and Grundy are good match for Joker. Nightwing is such a pain in the ass. Once you get Doomsday down, he's really not that bad. I said earlier in the thread I thought Doomsday/Joker was 7-3, that was stupid as I didn't know what I was doing and playing a lot shitty Doomsdays. I think it's 6-4 or possibly 5-5.

 

[MetaSkipper]

I was watching a Grundy tutorial video, looking at some resets and oki setups. Can anyone figure out if we can mash parry out of some of them?

 

[Cat]

tournament match vs starchargers catwoman.

 

[Bolton]

tournament match vs starchargers catwoman.

i don't know much about catwoman so i'm just going to ask some questions...

i like ending the strings with 323 for a hard knockdown, but what are catwoman's wakeup options to counter your ji2 on wakeup? couldn't she use cat dash to at least get out, or up whip to just stuff it? does she really have no answer for it besides blocking and having to deal with 113 or b13?

the teeth acts as a sort of safety net for pistol/RLG to punish her fullscreen punish attempts, and this really does limit her options severely from far-range. mid-range catwoman likes to use the b3 to advance too, and even against that there is a chance for you to throw a preemptive set of chattering teeth and pushblock into it. what's the damage potential for a followup of that btw?

i'm pretty sure the catwoman is just really unfamiliar, if she would just lowblock your advances she could interrupt 113s, interrupt 213 because of her low hitbox, and at least try to block the b13s forcing you to use b2s as overheads wouldn't she? not sure about the viability of b2s, but i'm pretty sure it puts the opponent at a pretty good distance, so if it is viable, it'd put catwoman back into far-range or at least mid-range game which seems to be in favor of joker.

sorry if this doesn't really contribute to much, i'm not so familiar with the really deep mechanics of fighting games but i'm trying.

 

[Cat]

i don't know much about catwoman so i'm just going to ask some questions...

i like ending the strings with 323 for a hard knockdown, but what are catwoman's wakeup options to counter your ji2 on wakeup? couldn't she use cat dash to at least get out, or up whip to just stuff it? does she really have no answer for it besides blocking and having to deal with 113 or b13?

the teeth acts as a sort of safety net for pistol/RLG to punish her fullscreen punish attempts, and this really does limit her options severely from far-range. mid-range catwoman likes to use the b3 to advance too, and even against that there is a chance for you to throw a preemptive set of chattering teeth and pushblock into it. what's the damage potential for a followup of that btw?

i'm pretty sure the catwoman is just really unfamiliar, if she would just lowblock your advances she could interrupt 113s, interrupt 213 because of her low hitbox, and at least try to block the b13s forcing you to use b2s as overheads wouldn't she? not sure about the viability of b2s, but i'm pretty sure it puts the opponent at a pretty good distance, so if it is viable, it'd put catwoman back into far-range or at least mid-range game which seems to be in favor of joker.

sorry if this doesn't really contribute to much, i'm not so familiar with the really deep mechanics of fighting games but i'm trying.

the timing on wake up cat dash can be tricky.. not to mention it does not have invisibiilty on start up like her trait does, so it gets stuffed out easily...
after a pushblock into teeth, you can dash up b3 into a combo..although i didnt get to do it in time..
b13 is tricky on catwoman because if you notice on the video the overhead part crosses up.. so she must block standing and on the opposide way.. if im a lil spaced out when i do it, it will hit in front instead. the 113 jails after a jump in attack so the high cannot be ducked.. she could duck 212, but since he was not, i made sure to use it.

we ran a ton of matches yesterday at my crib.. and i recorded them with my capture card.. its currently uploading but taking awhile since its in HD. the matches on the ft3 im uploading are way better, since we both understood the match up more after playing a long bit..

ill post it here when its done.. but if you have youtube, just subscribe so you can see it as soon as it goes up

 

[Bolton]

the timing on wake up cat dash can be tricky.. not to mention it does not have invisibiilty on start up like her trait does, so it gets stuffed out easily...
after a pushblock into teeth, you can dash up b3 into a combo..although i didnt get to do it in time..
b13 is tricky on catwoman because if you notice on the video the overhead part crosses up.. so she must block standing and on the opposide way.. if im a lil spaced out when i do it, it will hit in front instead. the 113 jails after a jump in attack so the high cannot be ducked.. she could duck 212, but since he was not, i made sure to use it.

we ran a ton of matches yesterday at my crib.. and i recorded them with my capture card.. its currently uploading but taking awhile since its in HD. the matches on the ft3 im uploading are way better, since we both understood the match up more after playing a long bit..

ill post it here when its done.. but if you have youtube, just subscribe so you can see it as soon as it goes up

could she use high feline evade or is the recovery on that too long and will be full combo punished? i totally forgot about b13 crossing up, i actually usually use it to check after two d1s, instead of one or none at all, which doesn't cross up.

so for jump ins.. if ji2 lands, you full combo. if ji2 blocks, you use 113, and they have to block or take the hits. is there any reason you don't use laughing gas at the end of successful 113 (besides forgetting about it which is totally understandable)? maybe with catwoman she could wakeup MB catdash to punish but for other matchups i find this extremely useful to cover throwing a set of teeth and start zoning. if 113 is blocked, it is a cancelable string so you could throw a set of teeth for safety, right? almost seems like catwoman is locked down, i'm not sure if she has any advantage. far game, midgame, and infight seems really bad for her.

seems like a losing matchup for catwoman... but i'm looking forward to seeing how he adjusts in your next set of (w00t HD!!) videos.

 

[Cat]

Updated second post with a FT3 set vs Catwoman

 

[Cat]

could she use high feline evade or is the recovery on that too long and will be full combo punished? i totally forgot about b13 crossing up, i actually usually use it to check after two d1s, instead of one or none at all, which doesn't cross up.

so for jump ins.. if ji2 lands, you full combo. if ji2 blocks, you use 113, and they have to block or take the hits. is there any reason you don't use laughing gas at the end of successful 113 (besides forgetting about it which is totally understandable)? maybe with catwoman she could wakeup MB catdash to punish but for other matchups i find this extremely useful to cover throwing a set of teeth and start zoning. if 113 is blocked, it is a cancelable string so you could throw a set of teeth for safety, right? almost seems like catwoman is locked down, i'm not sure if she has any advantage. far game, midgame, and infight seems really bad for her.

seems like a losing matchup for catwoman... but i'm looking forward to seeing how he adjusts in your next set of (w00t HD!!) videos.

Cat evade has no invisibility. Will get beat out every time as well as its bad recovery.
113 gun shit jails and leaves at advantage. Doing gas tank or teeth is not safe and will get punished. Only true block string for teeth and low tank which are safe is 212 into those specials.
I think catwoman probably wins the match. Unless joker is outplaying her with mix ups. Frame traps, etc.

Video is now up on second post.

 

[Neariak]

Sinestro Match,

Need some ideas.

His down 2 destroys any chances with jump ins.

His zoning can chip you down pretty fast.

I am going to assume this is one of the worst MU's for Joker? I am think 6-4? Maybe even 7-3?