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Match-up Discussion Joker Matchup Discussion

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
jokers dash is slower than black adams

we recently learned black adams dash is 18f

so if jokers is 20 approx then

20 - 4 = 16

fear blast 9f + 5 top travel time = hit.
Step 1: Go into training.
Step 2: Set Sinestro to reversal Fear Blast.
Step 3: Shoot him with your gun, then dash and hold down.
Step 4: Never stop slapping yourself in the face.
Works everywhere outside of starting positions, though doesn't always duck it, sometimes just blocks.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Step 1: Go into training.
Step 2: Set Sinestro to reversal Fear Blast.
Step 3: Shoot him with your gun, then dash and hold down.
Step 4: Never stop slapping yourself in the face.
Works everywhere outside of starting positions, though doesn't always duck it, sometimes just blocks.
never knew that, nice
 

Neariak

LF New Main PST
Bend over. For real. Sinestro is ridiculously good vs Joker.

Stop trait charges with gunshot, unfortunately it's only 8% but it's something.

After Sinestro does B12 he will do 2 things, block or backdash, most will backdash. If they don't do anything throw them or pressure them, if they backdash do a forward jump into J3 D2 MB RLB B3 J2 D3 it costs 1 bar and is 12% more than the normal j3 b1 flower you'd get but vs sinestro youd rather be meterless in the corner rather than not maximise your damage everytime

lots of patience and poking with sweep and crowbar

dont jump deep right onto him, he has a great AA uppercut

pick a stage with a background interaction so you can hit him with the unblockable for 60% meterless, fortress of solitude has 3 such interactions in the lab area.

dash meteors on reactions and walk forward at all times, duck fear blasts on reaction from full and 3/4 screen, duck in anticipation any closer.

Up close fear blasts are a high so uppercut into combo the whiff or sweep him.

will write more later


Thanks for the info, I just recently picked the game up again due to 1.06.

This match up caused me a lot of rage back when the game first launched lol.
 

Zino

Noob
hey what do you guys know about the ares mu cause i was gettin whooped in that online tournament by ares resets. Share your knowledge plz.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
tech roll the resets

bait teleport and punish for full combo

occasionaly check ares with a gunshot when you have the lifelead

duck all fireballs and dash after

block all fireballs high when up close

counterpoke his D1 with d1 flower and when you got meter and are about to kill with d1 super
 

Zino

Noob
thanx. that was the best ares ive played and i didnt have a solid gameplan. but out of the lobby mercenaryzeros black adam and my joker gave him the most trouble.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
hey what do you guys know about the ares mu cause i was gettin whooped in that online tournament by ares resets. Share your knowledge plz.
Jumping as you wakeup is somewhat viable against Ares' that abuse the jumping pound move, since jumping is the only way to get out of it. You gotta know that he's probably going to teleport when you get him in a setup, so instead of following up with an overhead (in the corner), jump back and catch him as he comes out of the teleport for a full combo. One other thing to note is the MB fireball is an overhead, so you need to either try to jump it or take the chip, but you can't duck it. He has a 6f d1, so just be aware that he can throw his out as fast as you can, but his is -4 on guard and +9 on hit, while ours is +1 on guard and +16 on hit, so alot more advantage once you start catching him in the poke game. I like to check them with a d1 then either go into a crossup j2 or b1 flower/crowbar. Teleporters are inherently more of a pain in the ass because they get out of setups for free, so when recognize that situation and make the read, dealing with it becomes alot easier. And just FYI, I'm not sure about his strings, but his trait stuff and specials are not parry-able.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
This is going to sound weird, but what the hell do you do against Lobo? AlucarD hit me with Lobo today and I had no idea what to do and found myself having to counterpick to take a match.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
This is going to sound weird, but what the hell do you do against Lobo? AlucarD hit me with Lobo today and I had no idea what to do and found myself having to counterpick to take a match.
Not weird at all. Lobo is pretty insane now post patch. He can do 40-50% unclashable damage, has a 50/50 situation when you are half screen-sweep distance with the low hook or overhead charge, his trait lets him zone Joker out kinda easily now, and he can get in crazy fast and easily by rolling under projectiles with his dash. I haven't played against Lobo so much, but I have been playing as him alot more. If they load the nuke shells outside of a combo string, it's going to be unsafe, so punish it with a gunshot (they'll still load them, but you get 8% out of it). His anti-air is kinda average, so jumping around on him is relatively safe (he has an air grab, but it's startup is slower than the others and its hitbox is crappy). His oki game is pretty insane and always has been, so you need to respect that. His charge is now a shitload better on wakeup, so teeth setups are tough to get on him- best bet is probably pushblocking him back into them or mb f3. String-wise, if he's close to you he has a low starter with b1 2 that pops you up, and can be followed with a d1 into command grab (though the timing is insanely tough), he has huge range on the second hit of the 2 1 string which is an overhead, and the b2 u1 string is slow as hell but insanely powerful. His crossup j2 is solid too, so watch for that (it's actually very similar to Joker's). Command grab is always a threat, try to see it coming and neutral jump for a full combo punish. It actually whiffs when cancelled from alot of his strings on hit, but on guard if he does it he will catch you, so keep that in mind and if you see him doing that, jump his strings after 2 hits. The OTG stuff is useful against him (and everyone) because Lobo's are extremely wakeup happy now with that buff, so make good use of the crowbar now that it has a purpose and teach him to start blocking on wakeup- that will expose him to teeth setups. Full screen you're safe to zone him out with the gun, but he can just duck or dash under it, so use it sparingly. Once he's at 3/4 screen, if he's traited, he can punish you on whiff for 28% with a MB pump shot, so you have to start ducking. With his new range, there really isn't anywhere we want him expect full screen, and there's nothing for us to do there but whiff gunshots, so he isn't an easy matchup because he has better mixup up close and can dish out huge damage with pump shots anywhere else on the screen. When he has you on block, start blocking low, then go high. He can mix in a low pump shot traited to pop you us at any time, so you have to try to read that and go back to blowing low. The only overhead starter he has is the b2u1 string, which is slow enough to react to and you can probably even d1 him out of it. Make good use of pokes when you're up close then switch to b1 crowbar to get some OTG going. His d1 is also 6f but has less advantage than ours. Mixup that and crossups and you should do alright up close. This is mostly information on Lobo with a little bit of strategy, so sorry about that, but I hope this helps!
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Not weird at all. Lobo is pretty insane now post patch. He can do 40-50% unclashable damage, has a 50/50 situation when you are half screen-sweep distance with the low hook or overhead charge, his trait lets him zone Joker out kinda easily now, and he can get in crazy fast and easily by rolling under projectiles with his dash. I haven't played against Lobo so much, but I have been playing as him alot more. If they load the nuke shells outside of a combo string, it's going to be unsafe, so punish it with a gunshot (they'll still load them, but you get 8% out of it). His anti-air is kinda average, so jumping around on him is relatively safe (he has an air grab, but it's startup is slower than the others and its hitbox is crappy). His oki game is pretty insane and always has been, so you need to respect that. His charge is now a shitload better on wakeup, so teeth setups are tough to get on him- best bet is probably pushblocking him back into them or mb f3. String-wise, if he's close to you he has a low starter with b1 2 that pops you up, and can be followed with a d1 into command grab (though the timing is insanely tough), he has huge range on the second hit of the 2 1 string which is an overhead, and the b2 u1 string is slow as hell but insanely powerful. His crossup j2 is solid too, so watch for that (it's actually very similar to Joker's). Command grab is always a threat, try to see it coming and neutral jump for a full combo punish. It actually whiffs when cancelled from alot of his strings on hit, but on guard if he does it he will catch you, so keep that in mind and if you see him doing that, jump his strings after 2 hits. The OTG stuff is useful against him (and everyone) because Lobo's are extremely wakeup happy now with that buff, so make good use of the crowbar now that it has a purpose and teach him to start blocking on wakeup- that will expose him to teeth setups. Full screen you're safe to zone him out with the gun, but he can just duck or dash under it, so use it sparingly. Once he's at 3/4 screen, if he's traited, he can punish you on whiff for 28% with a MB pump shot, so you have to start ducking. With his new range, there really isn't anywhere we want him expect full screen, and there's nothing for us to do there but whiff gunshots, so he isn't an easy matchup because he has better mixup up close and can dish out huge damage with pump shots anywhere else on the screen. When he has you on block, start blocking low, then go high. He can mix in a low pump shot traited to pop you us at any time, so you have to try to read that and go back to blowing low. The only overhead starter he has is the b2u1 string, which is slow enough to react to and you can probably even d1 him out of it. Make good use of pokes when you're up close then switch to b1 crowbar to get some OTG going. His d1 is also 6f but has less advantage than ours. Mixup that and crossups and you should do alright up close. This is mostly information on Lobo with a little bit of strategy, so sorry about that, but I hope this helps!
trying to decide what lvl that wall of text is
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Not weird at all. Lobo is pretty insane now post patch. He can do 40-50% unclashable damage, has a 50/50 situation when you are half screen-sweep distance with the low hook or overhead charge, his trait lets him zone Joker out kinda easily now, and he can get in crazy fast and easily by rolling under projectiles with his dash. I haven't played against Lobo so much, but I have been playing as him alot more. If they load the nuke shells outside of a combo string, it's going to be unsafe, so punish it with a gunshot (they'll still load them, but you get 8% out of it). His anti-air is kinda average, so jumping around on him is relatively safe (he has an air grab, but it's startup is slower than the others and its hitbox is crappy). His oki game is pretty insane and always has been, so you need to respect that. His charge is now a shitload better on wakeup, so teeth setups are tough to get on him- best bet is probably pushblocking him back into them or mb f3. String-wise, if he's close to you he has a low starter with b1 2 that pops you up, and can be followed with a d1 into command grab (though the timing is insanely tough), he has huge range on the second hit of the 2 1 string which is an overhead, and the b2 u1 string is slow as hell but insanely powerful. His crossup j2 is solid too, so watch for that (it's actually very similar to Joker's). Command grab is always a threat, try to see it coming and neutral jump for a full combo punish. It actually whiffs when cancelled from alot of his strings on hit, but on guard if he does it he will catch you, so keep that in mind and if you see him doing that, jump his strings after 2 hits. The OTG stuff is useful against him (and everyone) because Lobo's are extremely wakeup happy now with that buff, so make good use of the crowbar now that it has a purpose and teach him to start blocking on wakeup- that will expose him to teeth setups. Full screen you're safe to zone him out with the gun, but he can just duck or dash under it, so use it sparingly. Once he's at 3/4 screen, if he's traited, he can punish you on whiff for 28% with a MB pump shot, so you have to start ducking. With his new range, there really isn't anywhere we want him expect full screen, and there's nothing for us to do there but whiff gunshots, so he isn't an easy matchup because he has better mixup up close and can dish out huge damage with pump shots anywhere else on the screen. When he has you on block, start blocking low, then go high. He can mix in a low pump shot traited to pop you us at any time, so you have to try to read that and go back to blowing low. The only overhead starter he has is the b2u1 string, which is slow enough to react to and you can probably even d1 him out of it. Make good use of pokes when you're up close then switch to b1 crowbar to get some OTG going. His d1 is also 6f but has less advantage than ours. Mixup that and crossups and you should do alright up close. This is mostly information on Lobo with a little bit of strategy, so sorry about that, but I hope this helps!
Thanks for the help!

That said, his anti-air grab is NOT lacking range. It was consistently beating out my j3 no matter how I timed it.

Good to know most of his stuff hits low. I'm going to need to go into the lab just to see what these strings look like, because I seriously had no idea what to do other than switch to Lex and put mines on the ground XD
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Thanks for the help!

That said, his anti-air grab is NOT lacking range. It was consistently beating out my j3 no matter how I timed it.

Good to know most of his stuff hits low. I'm going to need to go into the lab just to see what these strings look like, because I seriously had no idea what to do other than switch to Lex and put mines on the ground XD
vs all good AA characters you should do you jump before even max height
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
I wanna shift this portion of this conversation to where it should be... Qwark28, what were some of your findings with why the Zod MU is so tough? I have a little experience with it, but not on a high level and I wanna know what to look out for.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
I wanna shift this portion of this conversation to where it should be... Qwark28, what were some of your findings with why the Zod MU is so tough? I have a little experience with it, but not on a high level and I wanna know what to look out for.
I'm curious as to this myself. There are two Zod players in the local area, although none are top level, and it felt like we had the tools to compete.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
You cannot get past his zoning. That is basically what it boils down to. If Zod can zone then you won't get in, simple as that, you must make a read for every single projectile he throws.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
See, I figured gunshot would check his zoning relatively well... is that not the case? If so, why not?