Breakthrough Joker is Viable, Top 10 at it. Tech videos by SonicFox

[The PantyChrist]

Again people are missing that this is not a tech thread

Look at the op again. You literally call 2 of the vids tech

 

[The PantyChrist]

THE NAME OF THE THREAD IS TECH VIDEOS!

 

[SonicFox5000]

Look at the op again. You literally call 2 of the vids tech

No i didnt. Storms did. It was edited.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Lol you really, really, REALLY don't know.

He was getting games off Theo. He could be on to something.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

He was getting games off Theo. He could be on to something.

The neutral game against Aquaman is tough, especially with the pushblock stuff getting nerfed.
It's very true that if you can establish an offense against him twice in a pretty short time frame (trait) without getting lamed out until recharge, he has to respect joker on wakeup since Aquaman can't wakeup (still no mixup though, just don't try to wakeup, block low, and react to his 25f overheads). Open him up in the corner or near a BGB, and he dies. Period.
HOWEVER, I said what I said there because there are far more than just a few characters that Joker does this to. There are only a few characters that CAN escape Joker's corner stuff reliably. The rest are dead.
You just assumed I'm downplaying because apparently that all we do around here... Nope, this character kicks ass. He's just very difficult to play.

 

[SonicFox5000]

The neutral game against Aquaman is tough, especially with the pushblock stuff getting nerfed.
It's very true that if you can establish an offense against him twice in a pretty short time frame (trait) without getting lamed out until recharge, he has to respect joker on wakeup since Aquaman can't wakeup (still no mixup though, just don't try to wakeup, block low, and react to his 25f overheads). Open him up in the corner or near a BGB, and he dies. Period.
HOWEVER, I said what I said there because there are far more than just a few characters that Joker does this to. There are only a few characters that CAN escape Joker's corner stuff reliably. The rest are dead.
You just assumed I'm downplaying because apparently that all we do around here... Nope, this character kicks ass. He's just very difficult to play.

I understand his neutral extremely well.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I understand his neutral extremely well.

Then you should do fine in that fight. I used to struggle with it a lot, but I think it's more like an honest 4-6.
I hated it for a long time, until I kinda figured it out mid match against Rico at the Break last week lol. I was kinda relying on the pushblock setups to open him up though, so I'm curious what you think works in the neutral game now?

 

[SonicFox5000]

Then you should do fine in that fight. I used to struggle with it a lot, but I think it's more like an honest 4-6.
I hated it for a long time, until I kinda figured it out mid match against Rico at the Break last week lol. I was kinda relying on the pushblock setups to open him up though, so I'm curious what you think works in the neutral game now?

Crowbar attacks and teeth save you from AM

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Crowbar attacks and teeth save you from AM

Yeah, we slightly out range his footsies with d2, and teeth are an incredible important footsie tool to try and make him open himself up.
I haven't really explored this matchup thoroughly, but after a few tournament sets against Rico, I think it's more managable than I gave it credit.
Can't rely on the air game because of his d2 and can't dash in freely because he can just react and full combo punish, both of which lead to around 40%.
Gotta throw teeth at him if he's turtling you and try to make him make mistakes. This matchup is an awesome example of how you need to change Joker's playstyle in every matchup. His jump normals are amazing, but Aquaman's d2 forces you to rely on other stuff until you can train him to jump alot.
God I love this character. You better make him look good you little bastard.

 

[Fromundaman]

I am really intrigued. I want to see your Joker play, especially since you seem to be the only one to share similar matchup views to me, meaning there's a chance I actually know what I'm talking about.

 

[Notez4]

See ya at final round then. I most likely wont be switching off from joker.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

See ya at final round then. I most likely wont be switching off from joker.

Like a man

 

[Dr. Handsome]

Im not using joker the entire tournament. Thats insane. I said he was viable and top 10 just like 20 other characters in this game. Ill use BG whenever I feel like using her, and ill use Joker whenever I want to.

Feel like....you just exposed yourself.

 

[Cage Redfield]

@SonicFox5000 Hey, is the block infinite 212 xx teeth?

 

[StevoSuprem0]

@SonicFox5000 Hey, is the block infinite 212 xx teeth?

Whatever he's talking about pretty much has to involve that... but it's not a block infinite at all and is actually slightly negative. Used to setup a pretty sweet pushblock setup if they tried to punish. But no, standing 2 has 13f of startup and the block string cancelled into teeth leaves Joker slightly negative, so you'll be eating a punish if you do that. Maybe he has something else involved though. Or maybe he's just being a troll like he has been for large portions of this thread lol. Who knows...

 

[rev0lver]

"If Sonic picks Joker in the team tournament I'm kicking him off the team" - Rico Suave 2014

 

[Cage Redfield]

Whatever he's talking about pretty much has to involve that... but it's not a block infinite at all and is actually slightly negative. Used to setup a pretty sweet pushblock setup if they tried to punish. But no, standing 2 has 13f of startup and the block string cancelled into teeth leaves Joker slightly negative, so you'll be eating a punish if you do that. Maybe he has something else involved though. Or maybe he's just being a troll like he has been for large portions of this thread lol. Who knows...

The reason why I ask is because there are multiple things wrong with this blockstring. For starters, taking into consideration what you've said, it's a blockstring that leaves you slightly negative that uses a 13f normal to begin it. If after 212 teeth, he repeats it with 2, it's way too slow. All he can do is d1, and that loses to jumping forward. Another thing is that 212's last hit is duckable. It's the only string with enough cancel advantage (unless me, ducky and rampage just suck at testing this) that doesn't let him get reversal Corp Charge'd in the face before he recovers from teeth, or allows him to even act with anything other than block the reversal, and you can duck it (unless you are a big body). The only thing that's even remotely guaranteed afterwards is mixing up between d1 or d2, and it ends there. And again, it's duckable. No string other than this easily avoidable string allows him to continue pressure.

But we are just assuming it's either: A) 212 xx teeth looped into itself or B) 212 xx teeth, d1/d2, ???. We could potentially be wrong and SonicFox found a way to continue from this (according to you) disadvantageous situation for an infinite amount of time, with no escape for the opponent whatsoever. However, we've tested stuff and we've come to the conclusion that it's one of those two options.

 

[Fromundaman]

Another thing is that 212's last hit is duckable.

Only by some characters.

Also there are ways to loop this on some characters, but some reversals will beat those out, as do backdashes.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

The reason why I ask is because there are multiple things wrong with this blockstring. For starters, taking into consideration what you've said, it's a blockstring that leaves you slightly negative that uses a 13f normal to begin it. If after 212 teeth, he repeats it with 2, it's way too slow. All he can do is d1, and that loses to jumping forward. Another thing is that 212's last hit is duckable. It's the only string with enough cancel advantage (unless me, ducky and rampage just suck at testing this) that doesn't let him get reversal Corp Charge'd in the face before he recovers from teeth, or allows him to even act with anything other than block the reversal, and you can duck it (unless you are a big body). The only thing that's even remotely guaranteed afterwards is mixing up between d1 or d2, and it ends there. And again, it's duckable. No string other than this easily avoidable string allows him to continue pressure.

But we are just assuming it's either: A) 212 xx teeth looped into itself or B) 212 xx teeth, d1/d2, ???. We could potentially be wrong and SonicFox found a way to continue from this (according to you) disadvantageous situation for an infinite amount of time, with no escape for the opponent whatsoever. However, we've tested stuff and we've come to the conclusion that it's one of those two options.

It's not duckable against everyone, only certain cast members. And there is little or no reasoning behind who can duck it. The list includes the usual small-hitbox characters (Catwoman and KF, but not BG for some reason), Joker, Shazam, Deathstroke, and Grundy.... so yeah, no idea; Paulo on blast.
If by block infinite, he mean frame trap, then yeah, Joker has a few of those. And we've been doing them, and that can be seen on stream in several places.
Or he's trolling, which is by no means out of character.
Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing more Joker play at FR. Between @Notez4 and Sonic, hopefully this community will realize how good this character can be in the right hands.

 

[BanTheTesters]

Think again

 

[REDRUM]

baby teeth setups @SonicFox5000

rep joker my man

 

[REDRUM]

I got Joker winning FINAL ROUND

 

[SonicFox5000]

It's not duckable against everyone, only certain cast members. And there is little or no reasoning behind who can duck it. The list includes the usual small-hitbox characters (Catwoman and KF, but not BG for some reason), Joker, Shazam, Deathstroke, and Grundy.... so yeah, no idea; Paulo on blast.
If by block infinite, he mean frame trap, then yeah, Joker has a few of those. And we've been doing them, and that can be seen on stream in several places.
Or he's trolling, which is by no means out of character.
Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing more Joker play at FR. Between @Notez4 and Sonic, hopefully this community will realize how good this character can be in the right hands.

People need to understand in this thread weather i go 0-2 with joker of win the whole thing, its not enough to prove top 10. Joker mains need to do that. Joker to me is a fun back up. And no @Cage_Redfield I know 212 can be ducked. Thats not it. But your getting warmer.

 

[OG Mannimal]

People need to understand in this thread weather i go 0-2 with joker of win the whole thing, its not enough to prove top 10. Joker mains need to do that. Joker to me is a fun back up. And no @Cage_Redfield I know 212 can be ducked. Thats not it. But your getting warmer.

Why don't you just tell us what it is? So it doesn't get patched out before FR?

 

[Blind_Ducky]

People need to understand in this thread weather i go 0-2 with joker of win the whole thing, its not enough to prove top 10. Joker mains need to do that. Joker to me is a fun back up. And no @Cage_Redfield I know 212 can be ducked. Thats not it. But your getting warmer.

There's no other string with enough cancel advantage for a block infinite.