No lol. It's a guessing game. If you just block high, then you are standing in a teeth/mb f3 if Joker guesses that you're not going to teleport, and the teeth will catch you if the overhead/low is timed right.
No... i'm saying after the teleport, Shazam blocks high. I get that a jump back 2 or 3 can catch Shazam out of the recovery frames of teleport.
I don't get what we're talking about anymore, so I'm just going to outline the entire situation.
Cyrax could have more than one bomb at a time. Unfortunately the joker can only have one set of teeth at a time.
Yeah, that's fine.
Honestly, jump back 2 is what I would usually do in this situation (Well, actually I avoid this situation and always go with OTG resets against Shazam, but yeah...). If you read the teleport, then free full combo. If you guessed wrong and he does another wakeup, then the teeth punish the command grab and you land fast enough to punish the torpedo (Although he does get out of the corner). If he decides not to wake up, then he has to block teeth, leaving you at massive frame advantage and allowing you to pressure him in the corner again. If he wakes up with a jump, land and do a D2.
Yup. I guess I just wasn't getting that across lol.
I don't get it then, it's not a 50/50?
It's a 50/50 in that you have to guess on how to get out of the reset. The jump back option still leaves you sitting in the corner at a disadvantage even if you guess correctly. Just sit in the teeth blocking low, then react to what Joker does to use that advantage. It becomes a frame trap, but better than eating another 30-40% and having to guess on another reset. Not saying it's ideal or easy, but that's what makes a Joker with good matchup knowledge so dangerous in the corner.
Like I said, you're free to play him. He requires the most MU xp than anyone in the game.
No, you can MB F3 through it all of DS's wakeups.
Teeth are like clones and potential bombs, clones at first, possibly bombs. People try to jump away from the bombs while not thinking of backdash and you clip em with J3.
Killer Frost does better things anywhere on the screen.
I think Arrow and Ares require quite a bit of match up experience. Like knowing when to load arrows, when you kan safely shoot them. Ranges. etc.
That is still nothing compared to what Joker requires but to each his own.
Now I'm starting to have a feeling we're both underestimating the amount of work we have to put in. I wrote it the simplest way I thought in order to ease the conversation, but it doesn't mean it's that simple to practice and figure it out.
I know exactly how much work my character needs not to underestimate others's.
I know my own too.. But I meant that we both don't understand each other's..
My point being that I know how much matchup, hitbox and individual hitbox properties I need to know with Joker that it reaches a ridiculous lvl compared to other characters who might also be considered technical in this came but not come close to how Joker is.
Same with Arrow. He's simple at first glance but the fact that Arrow's don't kome out so fast and he has to find ways to load them makes him more match up specific. Pushback changes on opponents, depending on whether they are krouching or standing, and because of their hitboxes in general. In a lot of instances it gets overwhelming because there's a lot of characters that just happen to be exceptions to the rule.
