Match-Up Discussion - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage Matchup Thread

[1man3letters]

yeah this is known, nutpunch is active for awhile and sometimes if you were to trade with f3, he can recover and hit another f3 for it to combo.

trying the f3 to f3 there and tremor recovers before cage even if i do the f3 as late as i can so there might be a oddity where does work sometimes off a certain string but off the f121 cancel its doesnt seem to be working

 

[zaccbarias]

got bodied so mucchhh by a full auto jackie. help? is sd better than alist in this mu?

 

[Name v.5.0]

got bodied so mucchhh by a full auto jackie. help? is sd better than alist in this mu?

Are you getting hit with the machine guns/rockets? What's the problem your having?

 

[IrishMantis]

For Stunt Double I am almost convinced Cybernetic Kano and Flamefist (maybe Dragonfire too) are bad match ups for stunt double, along with my most hated Kobu Tanya

 

[Name v.5.0]

For Stunt Double I am almost convinced Cybernetic Kano and Flamefist (maybe Dragonfire too) are bad match ups for stunt double, along with my most hated Kobu Tanya

Curious as to why you think Cyber Kano is bad.

for the record, I agree with Flame Fist and Kobu Jutsu.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Fuck SDJC vs Kotal. You cant keep him out, and it's never your turn to push buttons. It's unreal how easily Kotal can bully SD. My favorite part is how Blood God chips you out until you finally go for a move, then get stuffed by B1 into a 71% combo. Good times.

 

[Dja_Homies]

For Stunt Double I am almost convinced Cybernetic Kano and Flamefist (maybe Dragonfire too) are bad match ups for stunt double, along with my most hated Kobu Tanya

Cybernetic is definitely not a bad mu for stunt double at all. After running the mu offline with @bdizzle2700 and coach steve the mu is extremely even and is one of my most favorite mus in the game

 

[IrishMantis]

Cybernetic is definitely not a bad mu for stunt double at all. After running the mu offline with @bdizzle2700 and coach steve the mu is extremely even and is one of my most favorite mus in the game

Prolly not maybe I need more mu Exp

I actually think SD does fine against Kotal personally and I played a few good ones

I haven't play too many Cassies to speak on the mu but it felt fine from the little I played

 

[Dja_Homies]

Prolly not maybe I need more mu Exp

I actually think SD does fine against Kotal personally and I played a few good ones

I haven't play too many Cassies to speak on the mu but it felt fine from the little I played

I agree with you so far I don't see kotal being bad but I'm going to run the mu more to be certain of it.
Cassie is a tough one due to her hitbox and all. Her reversal flip kick can punish f244 iirc. She also has the same range as Johnny so you can't really outspace her with f3. Crazysteady went cassie on me first before sonya might be because she might actually beat Johnny but so far I think its 5-5. A tough one at that though.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Isn't A-List almost universally considered better than SD? I always thought SD was there only for a few matchups it's better in, similar to how buzz saw lao covers bad tempest matchups.

 

[IrishMantis]

I agree with you so far I don't see kotal being bad but I'm going to run the mu more to be certain of it.
Cassie is a tough one due to her hitbox and all. Her reversal flip kick can punish f244 iirc. She also has the same range as Johnny so you can't really outspace her with f3. Crazysteady went cassie on me first before sonya might be because she might actually beat Johnny but so far I think its 5-5. A tough one at that though.

From the little I played against I found zoning her was pretty easy as her projectile is shit, I should ask if there is any good EU Cassies to play against.
Can't speak on Sonya either because lack of knowledge lol

 

[Dja_Homies]

From the little I played against I found zoning her was pretty easy as her projectile is shit, I should ask if there is any good EU Cassies to play against.
Can't speak on Sonya either because lack of knowledge lol

I had some of the best sonyas in my path such as showtime,crazysteady,and scar. I think the mu is honestly 5-5 after talking to death for tips. I play guamos cassie and for now I think its 5-5 as well but who knows I may be upplaying haha

 

[IrishMantis]

I had some of the best sonyas in my path such as showtime,crazysteady,and scar. I think the mu is honestly 5-5 after talking to death for tips. I play guamos cassie and for now I think its 5-5 as well but who knows I may be upplaying haha

Haha I up play a lot too

Gonna ask the Cassie community for good Cassie and stream a bit

Btw I'm glad I'm not the only 1 who uses D4 mimic cancel, it's so good.
On paper it sounds crazy but in a match nobody blocks low when they do, congratulations you did your job well, OH city

 

[Dja_Homies]

Haha I up play a lot too

Gonna ask the Cassie community for good Cassie and stream a bit

Btw I'm glad I'm not the only 1 who uses D4 mimic cancel, it's so good.
On paper it sounds crazy but in a match nobody blocks low when they do, congratulations you did your job well, OH city

D4 reload is pretty good if it hits its sort of a mind game as wel. After a nut punch if they start blocking low I crouch for 1/4 of a second and go overhead. Stunt doubles reload mind games are so good but no one knows all the options except a few like me. I'll pm you them if you're interested

 

[Name v.5.0]

I agree with you so far I don't see kotal being bad but I'm going to run the mu more to be certain of it.
Cassie is a tough one due to her hitbox and all. Her reversal flip kick can punish f244 iirc. She also has the same range as Johnny so you can't really outspace her with f3. Crazysteady went cassie on me first before sonya might be because she might actually beat Johnny but so far I think its 5-5. A tough one at that though.

Have you ever played a guy on PSN called SharkSkin_Kisame? He says he is a lurker on TYM...The guy is maybe the best Kotal I've ever played against.

Once he adjusted to me, I lost something like 15 in a row to his Blood God. Some were, close. Others were not.

Edit: Kotal is currently my alt. I understand the block strings, and when he is plus and what to do about it. The real problem is Kotal's normals seem to stuff Johnny's all fucking day long. And as he stuffs you with a B1 combo, you then proceed to get hit with a 50%-70% combo.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

any advice for goro Tigrar Fury as A-List? I played my first good goro the other day and he did stuff I literally haven't seen.

 

[zaccbarias]

Are you getting hit with the machine guns/rockets? What's the problem your having?

yeah, thought there was no way past those guns and rockets, till i went to the lab and learned that you can low profile the ex rocket. hehehe

 

[zaccbarias]

with d4 i meant

 

[LeftOverShark]

any advice for goro Tigrar Fury as A-List? I played my first good goro the other day and he did stuff I literally haven't seen.

Watch his mix ups he has a low normal that can be punished on block and whiff (b3) and an overhead starter (2). Most tigrar fury players will mix try to mix you up with 2 ex low fireball or 21 ex low fireball be on the lookouts for these. Hope this helps!

 

[crosstalk]

Which MUs do you guys think Johnny has a harder time in?

I mostly play A-List and I think KJ Tanya, Cassie, Summoner Quan, BS Shinnok, and HQT Predator can be annoying for Johnny. Kotal and Tremor are probably up there too.

I think every other MU is pretty manageable for Johnny.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Which MUs do you guys think Johnny has a harder time in?

I mostly play A-List and I think KJ Tanya, Cassie, Summoner Quan, BS Shinnok, and HQT Predator can be annoying for Johnny. Kotal and Tremor are probably up there too.

I think every other MU is pretty manageable for Johnny.

Anyone who Cage can't really play neutral with is a bad matchup IMO

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Watch his mix ups he has a low normal that can be punished on block and whiff (b3) and an overhead starter (2). Most tigrar fury players will mix try to mix you up with 2 ex low fireball or 21 ex low fireball be on the lookouts for these. Hope this helps!

Thanks

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Which MUs do you guys think Johnny has a harder time in?

I mostly play A-List and I think KJ Tanya, Cassie, Summoner Quan, BS Shinnok, and HQT Predator can be annoying for Johnny. Kotal and Tremor are probably up there too.

I think every other MU is pretty manageable for Johnny.

For A-List I'd say he actually bests a Kung Jin. Shinnok is hard for me. I have trouble with grandmaster also, but if u save meter for eclipse kick, then he will be reluctant to Klone.

 

[Dizzy]

Which MUs do you guys think Johnny has a harder time in?

I mostly play A-List and I think KJ Tanya, Cassie, Summoner Quan, BS Shinnok, and HQT Predator can be annoying for Johnny. Kotal and Tremor are probably up there too.

I think every other MU is pretty manageable for Johnny.

I think these are all contenders for possible bad MUs. I think MUs where JC gets outclassed in footsies can get pretty rough and should at least be considered as possible disadvantage MUs.

To your point, I think d'vorah is likely a bad matchup due to her just straight up beating JC in footsies while also having stronger mixups. Cage can't really hit her with any of his jump attacks besides j3 in most situations, making jumping on read in neutral situations pretty useless. The only noteworthy advantage JC has in this MU is better armored attacks.

People who say JCs jump arc and jump attacks being shitty don't affect him are wrong, IMO. There is several MUs where he loses the footsies game. For most characters the recourse to this is being able to get big combos by jumping a whiffed footsies tool for huge damage. JC just doesn't have this option most of the time, potentially making the MUs where he is at a disadvantage in the footsies game an even worse handicap than many other characters in a similar situation.

That said, there probably isn't TOO many characters where he has this problem. At least that's what I hope! Lol

 

[crosstalk]

I think these are all contenders for possible bad MUs. I think MUs where JC gets outclassed in footsies can get pretty rough and should at least be considered as possible disadvantage MUs.

To your point, I think d'vorah is likely a bad matchup due to her just straight up beating JC in footsies while also having stronger mixups. Cage can't really hit her with any of his jump attacks besides j3 in most situations, making jumping on read in neutral situations pretty useless. The only noteworthy advantage JC has in this MU is better armored attacks.

People who say JCs jump arc and jump attacks being shitty don't affect him are wrong, IMO. There is several MUs where he loses the footsies game. For most characters the recourse to this is being able to get big combos by jumping a whiffed footsies tool for huge damage. JC just doesn't have this option most of the time, potentially making the MUs where he is at a disadvantage in the footsies game an even worse handicap than many other characters in a similar situation.

That said, there probably isn't TOO many characters where he has this problem. At least that's what I hope! Lol

Definitely forgot about D'vorah. I agree. It was even worse pre-patch with all the hitbox issues against her.

What do you think of the Kitana MU (namely Royal Storm and Mournful)? I could see that being a slight disadvantage but I'm not sure.

GM Sub probably has a small advantage over A-List but Stunt Double definitely helps in that regard. I feel like SD won't help in the other bad MUs though. Universally, he just seems to have some issues in those MUs due to those character's footsies tools or zoning capability.