Johnny Cage Living MU Discussion

[Dankster Morgan]

On the notes above, Subzero is also a 4-6 as he will ALWAYS get his KBs since he does them in combos so there is no escape.
It's practically free 90% in every match.

And he WILL get it, he just needs 5 mistakes from you.

And if you have to play each match without doing more than 4 mistakes, it's not a 5-5.

He doesn't even need his overhead string. If you take it away he still is a better cage in every way. Wins all zoning trades, huge damage, 6 frame d1 etc etc.

I’m not so sure this isn’t 5-5, Iv used both characters a lot. Not sure I agree with the huge damage statement, SZ will almost never break 30% midscreen, although he does have very practical and usable krushing blows, especially in thin ice. Cage can kind of abuse D4 on SZ a little bit, his D1 can be low profiled by a lot of stuff, so it’s hard for him to counter poke a character like Cage. He shares a weakness with Cage in that he doesn’t have a fast mid either. Somehow his mids are even worse than Johnny’s. SZ’s B14 is a good button and makes their footsies pretty comparable but I don’t think he edges him out. I honestly don’t see SZ as “a better Cage”, they’re not the same type of character. Start abusing his terrible pokes and end combos in shadow kick to cash out on damage and corner carry, it’s okay if he wakes up because his wakeups are abysmal, U3 gets low profiled even worse than D1, U2 gets fucked on by crossups all day. Even if he does delay wake up into a combo his fastest starter is a 9 frame jab. That being said Cage definitely doesn’t win either, I think it’s even

 

[DrFolmer]

I'm kind of in the middle here. I could see using Caged Rage build up once be powerful, like keep at lvl 2 so the next one is an unblockable mid, and then proceed to prioritize shimmy and grabs. I think having that lvl 3 unblockable ready is pretty scary and it's much less gimmicky than Ghost Ball or Kotals ground pound.

 

[Wigy]

I'm kind of in the middle here. I could see using Caged Rage build up once be powerful, like keep at lvl 2 so the next one is an unblockable mid, and then proceed to prioritize shimmy and grabs. I think having that lvl 3 unblockable ready is pretty scary and it's much less gimmicky than Ghost Ball or Kotals ground pound.

But who cares if it hits them, it's 12% into a a crappy knockdown.

This is the thing with it. The risk reward is ass after all the work you need to do to give it work.

 

[Name v.5.0]

But who cares if it hits them, it's 12% into a a crappy knockdown.

This is the thing with it. The risk reward is ass after all the work you need to do to give it work.

I definitely get what youre saying. It's just another tool, like I said. They may think you're going to F3 stagger, maybe go for a throw...instead they eat a level 3 CR. It's something different that you can sparingly use to maybe break up your opponents reads.

We'll have to agree to disagree on using it....It really fucking should have been stronger though. I'll give you that.

 

[DrFolmer]

But who cares if it hits them, it's 12% into a a crappy knockdown.

This is the thing with it. The risk reward is ass after all the work you need to do to give it work.

Pretty scary having guaranteed 12 % to close a round IMO. I'm not saying do it over and over again that's just suicide. But if you can stack it up twice? This shit is a bit scary in clutch I think. Haven't tested it myself. I never use it for the same reasons that you don't lol.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I use mime time occasionally, especially if they seem to love waking up. I stopped doing caged rage because I realized if I have them conditioned enough to sit there and let me get caged rage out I really could just walk up and throw them

 

[Wigy]

With tools you gotta put out. What are you giving up to use this instead. All the other options are just better imo. That's the point I'm making.

Characters regularly have specials and normals that should just be locked away in a dusty basement sadly. Which is basically all of his abilities and KBs lol.

Base cage is essentially the same character. Mime time is okay for very predictable opponents on oki but at that point you can make a safer play and still punish their wakeups. Probably for more damage as well.

Thank jesus his base toolkit is pretty good.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

That or a Krushing Blow. Land 2 CR's, second one KB's for like 25%. I would love that.

The problem is that I don’t think they are going to go through the trouble of animating new kbs for preexisting characters.

You are more likely to get new requirements for nut punch and mime time.

I find the mime time one really effective against some characters actually, like most Barakas start off with f4.

 

[Wigy]

The problem is that I don’t think they are going to go through the trouble of animating new kbs for preexisting characters.

You are more likely to get new requirements for nut punch and mime time.

I find the mime time one really effective against some characters actually, like most Barakas start off with f4.

F4 is faster than mime time. Also lord help you if they just back off or jump. That's a suicide read

 

[Rodney Quillz]

F4 is faster than mime time...

Maybe he paused or I backed up? I was able to catch it at the beginning of the round.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Maybe he paused or I backed up? I was able to catch it at the beginning of the round.

Both moves are 12 frames startup.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Baraka has to travel forward. So wouldn't that mean his F4 starts up in 12 frames, but still requires a few more frames to actually get to you? Whereas Mime Time just activates immediately. If that's the case, then Mime Time should beat it every time if both moves were activated on the very first available frame of the round....that and it's not exactly apparent when that first frame is available, so the input becomes inefficient.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

F4 is faster than mime time. Also lord help you if they just back off or jump. That's a suicide read

I main Johnny so I’m already living life on the edge, so fuck it right? Lol dude got caught by it two rounds in a row being hyper aggro anyways.

 

[Wigy]

I main Johnny so I’m already living life on the edge, so fuck it right? Lol dude got caught by it two rounds in a row being hyper aggro anyways.

I save my raggo for yolo shadow kicks.

Get the jumpy run away characters who I shadow kick straight after a grab lol. It's spaced and timed perfectly

 

[Rodney Quillz]

I save my raggo for yolo shadow kicks.

Get the jumpy run away characters who I shadow kick straight after a grab lol. It's spaced and timed perfectly

I always shadow kick after they tech my grab or vise verse and it works 90% of the time.

 

[Wigy]

I always shadow kick after they tech my grab or vise verse and it works 90% of the time.

I usually reserve grabs for scratching my nose and then quickly Scrabble for the block button when they tech it lol.

 

[DrFolmer]

Been using CAGED RAGE now after f344 (they expect forceballs). Having that unblockable to finish them off is really solid

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Been using bf4 now after f344 (they expect forceballs). Having that unblockable to finish them off is really solid

Bf4 is shadow kick.

 

[DrFolmer]

Bf4 is shadow kick.

You guys know what I mean LOL

 

[K03bIPb]

Jade 7-3
Cetrion 8-2 maybe
Shang Tsung 7-3 I swear

 

[Frank Reed]

Jade 7-3
Cetrion 8-2 maybe
Shang Tsung 7-3 I swear

No. These are crazy. Cetrion and Shang are 5-5. I think Jade is a 6-4 at worst.

 

[M.D.]

Cetrion 5-5 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAASfdhlijxcvoixcpizxcbvijzxcpboijzxpcoivjzpxocijvpozixcv

 

[DrFolmer]

Yeah I thought the same. Like, I lose a lot more games than I take from the top Cetrion players in ranked.

 

[Frank Reed]

Yeah I thought the same. Like, I lose a lot more games than I take from the top Cetrion players in ranked.

What are you finding troublesome about the matchup? I feel like our force balls negate her zoning pretty well and force her to come to us.

 

[Name v.5.0]

What are you finding troublesome about the matchup? I feel like our force balls negate her zoning pretty well and force her to come to us.

I agree that green balls interrupt her really well, but I NEVER feel like she comes to me.

Always chasing her down.

 

[DrFolmer]

What are you finding troublesome about the matchup? I feel like our force balls negate her zoning pretty well and force her to come to us.

It works one round, she just needs to block one forceball and she can do whatever into knockdown. She can react to forceballs with the fullscreen combo starter which will out damage us. She can also do the air blasts which will move her hurtbox above forceballs. We can still block but if you have success in sets by just completely zoning her out you're playing against someones day 1 Cetrion.

Zoning, and who has the advantage in exchanges are about hit advantage. Why does Sub-Zero win zoning wars? cause he gets a combo despite his projectile itself being pretty meh. Boulders are tricky to navigate. Yes if she just spams them in a predictable manner its easy to traverse but then you're not playing zoning right. Zoning is a mind game. If she just waits a few frames by throwing it out it's gonna catch the jump over. If you block a boulder you have to take the next puddle on block, but then she can just throw another boulder, thus resetting the mind game. She will win if she just looks to trade with forceballs. She also low profiles them on crouch block, making her closing in on Johnny a piece of cake granted you somehow get the lifelead.

Kompetitor unfortunately got completely shut down by a Cetrion at Combo Breaker. Any decent Cetrion will win the zoning. Skarlet is also super telegraphed if she just throws out the same shit constantly. When she mixes up slow moving blood balls with her other tools - THATS where it gets difficult, and it's the same for Cetrion