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Johnny Cage Living MU Discussion

Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
Yo this flash parry shit is pretty good.

NP I just started doing it and going into f344.
 
Raise-Your-Sword

Raise-Your-Sword

Noob
Here’s some tech against Liu Kang. You can create a gap by switching to low block after the first 2 hits of f43. This is super reliable and shuts down Liu’s entire mix off f43 since he can’t special cancel on whiff. This only works with 4 characters in the entire game. It guarantees a full combo punish as long as you are stand blocking the first hit of f43.


I didn’t discover the whiff issues Vs Liu but I’ve labbed this string against every Kharacter. Hope it helps.
 
Cobainevermind87

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Johnny BEATS 'KBs for Days' Geras? And Erron? Yeah I dunno man, I must be missing something lol

I read what Kombat had to say. I still think Johnny loses to Erron, what with the f344 whiffing issues, but I'll allow even I guess. Really disagree with him as far as Cassie goes, I think Mantis had that right.
 
heildan

heildan

NANI?!
Tundra81 said:
I'm not much of a Twitter guy so I'd rather bring the discussion here even though this place is going down the shitter. What do you guys thing of Mantis' Johnny MU chart.....
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1152154951499599873

If you read the comments I'd agree with what Kombat has to say a little more with the exception of the Cassie MU but I'm trash.
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That's exactly what I tought too when I was checking his tier list!
I was wondering why he did put Jax, Liu and Erron on winning mu when they look pretty much even to me. Also Kombat believing Cassie is an even mu is beyond me, but oh well, she controls the entire pacing of the match with her mids, specially b2 which shuts down Johnny's b34 and sometimes trade in her favor against f3, which it whiffs her anyway, and low gunshots, you gotta always be ready to block that low projectile.
 
T

Tundra81

Kombatant
Yeah Jade for me feels like a definite losing MU. I get so tilted over that "everything wrong with Jade" thread, lol. I get that she struggles in certain MU's but the down play in that thread is fucking disgusting.

I feel Johnny handles Liu, Jax and Baraka well but I wouldn't considerate them winning MU's due to the KB's. It's an even playing field for the most part until they inevitably land their KB's. I'd say these 3 are even.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Cobainevermind87 said:
Johnny BEATS 'KBs for Days' Geras? And Erron? Yeah I dunno man, I must be missing something lol

I read what Kombat had to say. I still think Johnny loses to Erron, what with the f344 whiffing issues, but I'll allow even I guess. Really disagree with him as far as Cassie goes, I think Mantis had that right.
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Johnny definitely beats Geras (Infinite Warden, New Era is a different story). Let's break it down.

F212 - Geras' best string. Completely beat thanks to the gap that Johnny gets by neutral ducking the 1. He can still do F22, or attempt a shitty F2 stagger, but neither amount to much. He's forced to attack in a different way. A Geras player has to completely change the way they play against Johnny, and that's not something many people do very well.

Sand Trap - Shadow Kick punishable on block all the way out to DB1F range. He has no other moves at range so he has to come in, where he's not all that effective against Cage thanks to the F212 gap. If you happen to block the 111~sand trap mixup, you get a free KB, or combo punish. You also get to throw out random Forceballs at closer range because he can't punish them.

Throw loop/mid setups - This trick is almost completely ineffective against Cage, also because of the F212 gap. He can't get the combo, and you can always tech a grab. If the Geras is very aware of the gap, he may go for throws more often, allowing you to duck the grab and punish. It's safer because if he goes for the F2, he may just be trained to do F22, which if it hits, is not the end of the world for you.

Frog Splash - If you're setup correctly he's going to get this on you. You may eat a KB...big deal. It happens to everyone, but he's not going to beat you with a single KB when he has trouble comboing you.

D1 - Geras is one of the few characters without a low combo starter. This is a big deal because you can abuse Mime Time. Geras players dont tend to counter poke with D4 or D3 because D1 is so fucking good. You can throw out Mime Time after staggers and strings and score combos against Geras unlike so many characters because of this and the fact that he CANNOT combo you if you throw it out. All he gets is a low poke. The Geras once again has to adjust his gameplay to counter it, breaking with his training and muscle memory.


What does Geras have left? Johnny takes away almost all of his best shit. This is a SHITTY MU for Geras.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Tundra81 said:
Yeah Jade for me feels like a definite losing MU. I get so tilted over that "everything wrong with Jade" thread, lol. I get that she struggles in certain MU's but the down play in that thread is fucking disgusting.

I feel Johnny handles Liu, Jax and Baraka well but I wouldn't considerate them winning MU's due to the KB's. It's an even playing field for the most part until they inevitably land their KB's. I'd say these 3 are even.
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Yeah, this has to be one of the Jade player's favorite MUs. I feel like the only time I have a chance is if I can get her to the corner. Not only that, but online, the punishes are even harder. 100% a bad MU for Cage.
 
Cobainevermind87

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Name v.5.0 said:
F212 - Geras' best string. Completely beat thanks to the gap that Johnny gets by neutral ducking the 1. He can still do F22, of attempt a shitty F2 stagger, but neither amount to much. He's forced to attack in a different way. A Geras player has to completely change the way they play against Johnny, and that's not something many people do very well.
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Seems the main thing I'm missing in my gameplan is taking advantage of the gap in f212 then, didn't even know it was there tbh. Do you have to stand block the f2 first? Like you would if you were trying to blow up Liu's f43?

Edit: Received the answer to that.


Name v.5.0 said:
D1 - Geras is one of the few characters without a low combo starter. This is a big deal because you can abuse Mime Time. Geras players dont tend to counter poke with D4 or D3 because D1 is so fucking good. You can throw out Mime Time after staggers and strings and score combos against Geras unlike so many characters because of this and the fact that he CANNOT combo you if you throw it out. All he gets is a low poke. The Geras once again has to adjust his gameplay to counter it, breaking with his training and muscle memory.
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This I don't have much success with, maybe just bad luck or really good players. I'll usually throw out a f344~caged rage just to see if they d1 and interrupt. They do. Game on right? Next opportunity I get, I f344~mime time. They calmly take a step back, body splash, full combo. Seems I have more success cancelling a blocked d1 into nutpunch when it comes to punishing their d1 attempts, but that's also death if they see it coming.
 
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Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
Mikemetroid said:
Don't be a dick bro. It's hard to keep up with every single little thing, ya know? It's legit and even though we may of known about it, its very good to see people find tech. It means more is on the way, don't wanna de-motivate people.
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I literally just said known for a while.

Guna be equally unmotivating when everyone just flat out ignores his post cause it's a month late. It's good people see shit and I'm not trying to actively discourage. Man everyone so touchy feely like they're trying to read brail.

Hell I posted that NP tech and it went entirely ignored then like 3 weeks later mantis comes out with it and everyone is like holy shit. Not like most of the shit even gets noticed on here
 
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thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Fuck Sub Zero being even. Good luck playing footsies when you have to put up with his d4 outranging and low profiling all of your buttons.
You can't even f344 on block and then back dash.. you're still in range of his 5,000 meter long foot.
 
lionheart21

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
thlityoursloat said:
Fuck Sub Zero being even. Good luck playing footsies when you have to put up with his d4 outranging and low profiling all of your buttons.
You can't even f344 on block and then back dash.. you're still in range of his 5,000 meter long foot.
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I tend to do alright against Dead of Winter since I don't have to worry about that fucking slide. Thin Ice, though, that's a different story.
 
thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
lionheart21 said:
I tend to do alright against Dead of Winter since I don't have to worry about that fucking slide. Thin Ice, though, that's a different story.
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Slide is annoying but at least it doesn't launch. The other variation is just MKX. Dumb easy 50/50s and that god damned canned fatal blow EX iceball.
Seriously though, characters with overpowered d4s.. I can't see them being good for Johnny, at all.
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
thlityoursloat said:
Slide is annoying but at least it doesn't launch. The other variation is just MKX. Dumb easy 50/50s and that god damned canned fatal blow EX iceball.
Seriously though, characters with overpowered d4s.. I can't see them being good for Johnny, at all.
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Start jumping in when you get in the range of it, most scorpion players and sub players will just toss it out like crazy cause it literally stops everything in its tracks. I started jumping over them into full combo sometimes.
 
thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Rodney Quillz said:
Start jumping in when you get in the range of it, most scorpion players and sub players will just toss it out like crazy cause it literally stops everything in its tracks. I started jumping over them into full combo sometimes.
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Not easy to JP it at all with how Sub tries to lick the floor during the animation. Deep JK works but what's that going to give you? Hardly a deterrent.
 
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