Match-up Discussion Jax MU Chart December 2012

[Axel_Redd]

Jax could easily blow up laos teleport anytime imo with just 1 or d1. You could also air grab depending on your reaction time.

only if lao teleports like an idiot...

 

[LEGEND]

what u mean p1 wins trades? trades on what? projectiles? im confused

Player 1 wins all physical trades. If both players hit each other on the same frame than Player one wins. Lao's spin and X-ray are the only exception beating out all trades on the same frame regardless of player 1 or 2

Projectiles are not effected by this

 

[Axel_Redd]

Player 1 wins all physical trades. If both players hit each other on the same frame than Player one wins. Lao's spin and X-ray are the only exception beating out all trades on the same frame regardless of player 1 or 2

Projectiles are not effected by this

....oh well thats dumb.....why can't it just be like DBZ Budokai.....when u hit eachother at the same time, u both gotta rapidly rotate the analog and the person who rotates it the fastest wins an gets bonus damage!!!

 

[Hitbox_Tyrant]

There really isn't a current Jax MU discussion or chart on here so i thought i'd Make one with the help of DaB. Also requested by TomlulsBrady
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Baraka: 6-4

Cyber Sub Zero: 6-4 Could be worse for Cyber, would like to hear J360 s thought on it

Cyblax: 5-5

Cyrax: 5-5 personally feel its in cyrax's advantage (Slightly) because of his ability to evade the GP mix-up game, Punish wiffs with Death, And has some good Tools for dealing with Jax's wake-ups (including some option select mind games)

Ermac: 5-5 Jax can't zone Ermac, Mac's D4 both evades GP and can lead to a full combo against Jax's Dash punch. Jax is is forced to take risks to get in, risks that are greatly in Mac's favor. Equalizer here is Jax Rushdown against Mac's pokes and high hitbox n of course the Corner

Freddy: 3-7 Jax has nothing going for him in this MU, when you finally do get in Freddy has a slue of options to end your pressure. there are some GP and knockdown setups that can be used as guessing games so you do have a little something there and of course you can use armor to get on top of freddy at times but Meter is hard to come by in this MU.

Jade: 6-4

Johnny Cage: 4-6 i'd honestly mark this as 3.5-6.5 if i could. I don't feel as if its as manageable as other 4-6s but its not as bad as say Sonya or Freddy, 4-6 works i guess
P1 also makes a noticeable difference in the MU with 11F1 going from auto Pressure to guessing game against D1-gotcha and repeated F3's being much easier to interrupt with 123 or F41

Kabal: 4-6 Kuh-Bawl
Whatever

Kano: 7-3 could be better, could be worse. Kano's strings are interruptible by armor and his zoning only does so much. Kano's knockdown setups are also meh against Jax

Kenshi: 4-6 Could be even, Tag DaB if you want an in depth breakdown of the MU, He knows it better than i do. I mainly play it from Kenshi's perspective

Kitana: 5-5

Kung Lao: 3-7 Another MU where Jax has very little going for him, Can't zone, Can't Pressure. Can't reliably build meter or deal with Teleport mix-ups. Dumb

Liu Kang: 5-5 Could be seen in Liu's favor at the highest level, not there yet as more and more options and counters to those options are found. This MU is pretty deep and Depends greatly upon fighting the player and not the character. 5-5 for now but who knows

BtB F413s getting full combo punished by a P1 Liu 213 is annoying as hell

Mileena: 5-5

Nightwolf: 7-3 Fish

Noob Saibot: 6-4

Quan Chi: 6-4

Raiden: 6-4 don't have alot of recent Raiden Experience but DaB says its in Jax's Favor so i'll stick with it

Rain: 6-4 Really don't know, haven't played the MU since the beginning of the year vs Brownie. And alot of new Jax Stuff has been developed since. DaB agrees with this being a 6-4.

Reptile: 5-5

Scorpion: 7-3

Sektor: 4-6

Shang Tsung: 5-5

Sheeva: 7-3

Sonya: 3-7

Sindel: 6-4

Skarlet: 4-6

Smoke: 6-4

Stryker: 6-4

Sub Zero: 6-4
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I will be updating the OP with details whenever i have the time (or motivation : )) to do so
EGP_TYRANT

Does this MU chart really describe a top 10 character?
Discuss

Seems legit. Jax is still top 10 but on the bottom 5 for sure.

 

[SatsuiYesHadou]

only if lao teleports like an idiot...

Only if you know how to fight lao. Jax does lose this match but its not like its laos birthday or anything

 

[SatsuiYesHadou]

Seems legit. Jax is still top 10 but on the bottom 5 for sure.

He's S+ when you use him (._. )

 

[LEGEND]

Seems legit. Jax is still top 10 but on the bottom 5 for sure.

i love that 16bit liked this post

 

[Jivan Karapetian]

I agree with most of your list except the Lao and Sub-Zero numbers. At the highest level of play, Jax completely obliterates Sub-Zero to the point that's its painful to watch. F4 shenanigans connect, GP him to no end, out-zone him. I'd say that's a 7-3 or even 8-2, but that's just personal. Kung Lao matchup isn't really that bad, 4-6 will do it. You just have to be more cautious and force the Lao to take risks. You can still keep him slightly in check with your zoning if you're on point, your hitbox is still going to not make you free. But that's debatable I guess.

I went O.O on the Noob MU number, why do you think its in Jax's advantage and not even a 5-5? I come to this MU thinks its a 4-6/3-7.

 

[NYCj360]

Cyber Sub Zero: 6-4 Could be worse for Cyber, would like to hear J360 s thought on it

To be honest at first after jax got all his buffs and CSZ received the universal parry nerf i thought this match was 7-3 when me and jr played it out. But after adapting to the new meta game of this fight (and just getting better as a player) i didn't see this that bad any more. I believe that when played correctly and by correctly i mean not parry happy, this match can be a 5-5. When it comes to this match up CSZ can match the momentum of jax and force him to respect certain strings as well. But to be honest since jax does limit CSZ parry and dive kick opportunities that would make this match a jax favorable matchup. So it would only be fair to call this a 6-4 in jaxes favor if we arent using decimals. I base this off really only playing cd jr and EGP_TYRANT at the last NY arena where we played for what seemed like hours lol. What are your thoughts on it tyrant?

 

[NYCj360]

I would like to comment on the Kano matchup though, i dont see it as a 7-3, but as a strong and i mean strong 6-4. The only two options jax limits are upball and the corner lol. As far as knives ,they are way too fast to grant jax the opportunity to ground pound or projectile properly, up close kano does rather well at spacing himself and can make his strings un-interruptable by simply choking instead of finishing the string, and once you realize that you have to respect that he regains the option of over head or choke, if you try to duck the choke he over heads you, if you try to armor out of the last over head and he chokes you get caught. Choke on block is -1 and has pushback so it basically resets a neutral position. Kano footsies can be hard to deal with especially with a b1 like his that leads to mixups. Once kano knocks jax down his entire goal is to regain space and start the neutral game over which is hard for a lot of characters to deal with. Kanos big hitbox is his major downfall in this matchup against jax, f413 owns his blocked up ball and the corner. But Jaxes damage potential midscreen isnt enough to warrant this a 7-3, if he had better damage i think this matchup would plummet for kano. But kano doesnt have to deal with that and he has ways to escape jaxs corner pressure in certain situations so its not like its a complete shit storm once hes cornered. Just think of Kano as noob once he gets across screen, with less recovery on shadows.

 

[Flagg]

No way is the match that bad for Kano, but it's popular round here for people to say "7-3 Kano even though I havent played any Kano's".

I've been playing around with Kano's options after a knock down or jik air grab. You can up ball safely over nearly all of Jax's wake ups. People seem to think Armour is the be all and end all in this game "Jax can armour through Kano's strings", newsflash, most characters with super armour can armour through everyones strings.

Jax is one of CSZ's harder matches. Some of Jax's strings start low, nullifying parry, you cant parry dash punch, he can armour out of CSZ pressure and dash punch any launched bombs on reaction.

 

[BillStickers]

Thank you for making the descriptions impossible to read.

 

[LEGEND]

Thank you for making the descriptions impossible to read.

are you using the red/black background? i see it fine on the original format

thought i'd go with the Jax Purple

 

[Hitbox_Tyrant]

To be honest at first after jax got all his buffs and CSZ received the universal parry nerf i thought this match was 7-3 when me and jr played it out. But after adapting to the new meta game of this fight (and just getting better as a player) i didn't see this that bad any more. I believe that when played correctly and by correctly i mean not parry happy, this match can be a 5-5. When it comes to this match up CSZ can match the momentum of jax and force him to respect certain strings as well. But to be honest since jax does limit CSZ parry and dive kick opportunities that would make this match a jax favorable matchup. So it would only be fair to call this a 6-4 in jaxes favor if we arent using decimals. I base this off really only playing cd jr and EGP_TYRANT at the last NY arena where we played for what seemed like hours lol. What are your thoughts on it tyrant?

I agree. 6-4 definitely. People just gotta play smarter with CSZ like J360.

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

There is no way that jax beats quan. Quan can interupt f421 anywhere on the screen to jax has no pressure on quan.

 

[LEGEND]

There is no way that jax beats quan. Quan can interupt f421 anywhere on the screen to jax has no pressure on quan.

Ya, cause F413 is all Jax has. . . Thanks

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Ya, cause F413 is all Jax has. . . Thanks

It kinda is lol (I didn't feel like thinking what the string actually was). He has no reason to beat quan. He is a rushdown character with no pressure on quan. They tie in the zoning. It would easily be in quan's favor if it wasn't for quan's awful wakeups making otg ground pounds really good.

 

[LEGEND]

OP Updated with some MU notes and # changes

also, if anyone else has a problem with the purple lettering in the OP let me know so i can do something about it

 

[CrimsonShadow]

There is no way that jax beats quan. Quan can interupt f421 anywhere on the screen to jax has no pressure on quan.

Jax blows up almost everything that Quan does. He can't skydrop (neither the direct version, nor the one the lands behind you is safe from jax pressure), he has to be extremely careful with trance because of the DP retaliation-range, and he's a sucker for armor when he tries to pressure you.

As soon as you block anything he does close-medium range, it's open season.

He might win that 1 salty round once he builds meter and has the rune trap.. And then it's back to jax domination after that.

 

[OZZYGUITAR]

OP Updated with some MU notes and # changes

also, if anyone else has a problem with the purple lettering in the OP let me know so i can do something about it

jax scorpion 6-4, its probly his toughest 6-4, his corner damage is dangerous, but avoidable, scorps hellfire is very reliable in zoning, jax cant throw a wave or risk taking 14 for a free double hellfire, gp cancels can be interrupted with hellfire, although footsies and pressure game do beat scorpion, if he gains momentum he can still take the match, i would not go as far as 7-3 MITDJT i think you mentioned feeling the same way?

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Jax blows up almost everything that Quan does. He can't skydrop (neither the direct version, nor the one the lands behind you is safe from jax pressure), he has to be extremely careful with trance because of the DP retaliation-range, and he's a sucker for armor when he tries to pressure you.

As soon as you block anything he does close-medium range, it's open season.

He might win that 1 salty round once he builds meter and has the rune trap.. And then it's back to jax domination after that.

1. Jax doens't blow up everything quan can do he does just fine
2. Quan should never sky drop outside of combo against any character
3. I don't have to be very careful with trances, because if I'm just risking a DP the risk reward is way in my flavor. Characters like kitana who get huge damage from far range I have to worry about with trances not a silly like 10% of even right next to me about 20%
4. How the hell is quan a sucker for armor? Just like the rest of the cast he can punish it on read
5. Jax never has open season on quan, because of quan's low hitbox. The low hitbox makes the matchup a 5-5 as you can't really pressure as every f4 is punished with a uppercut at least. If quan didn't have a super low hitbox trust me I wouldn't be arguing. The characters honestly destroy each other so it's a 55. Jax with otg ground pounds and quan with making it very hard for jax to pressure.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

1. Jax doens't blow up everything quan can do he does just fine
2. Quan should never sky drop outside of combo against any character
3. I don't have to be very careful with trances, because if I'm just risking a DP the risk reward is way in my flavor. Characters like kitana who get huge damage from far range I have to worry about with trances not a silly like 10% of even right next to me about 20%
4. How the hell is quan a sucker for armor? Just like the rest of the cast he can punish it on read
5. Jax never has open season on quan, because of quan's low hitbox. The low hitbox makes the matchup a 5-5 as you can't really pressure as every f4 is punished with a uppercut at least. If quan didn't have a super low hitbox trust me I wouldn't be arguing. The characters honestly destroy each other so it's a 55. Jax with otg ground pounds and quan with making it very hard for jax to pressure.

Jax players have been learning to fight low hitbox characters for a long time now.. Anyone that's decent isn't just going to f413 on block all day long. And literally everything Quan does, Jax has the counter for. Quan's slow speed makes him a target for jax's fast starters.

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Jax players have been learning to fight low hitbox characters for years.. Anyone that's had it isn't just going to f413 all day long. And literally everything Quan does, Jax has the counter for. Quan's slow speed makes him a target for jax's fast starters.

What's your counter for all I have to do it touch you to take over half your health? You seriously don't get it that you cant just be like "jax has an answer for everything quan has" supply no details and expect to win the argument. Are you on xbox so I can show you

 

[CrimsonShadow]

What's your counter for all I have to do it touch you to take over half your health? You seriously don't get it that you cant just be like "jax has an answer for everything quan has" supply no details and expect to win the argument. Are you on xbox so I can show you

If that was the defining characteristic of winning a matchup, then Smoke and Cyrax would win every matchup. It's a lot eaiser for Jax to 'touch' Quan, and breakers exist in this game for a reason. Also should you end up close to the corner, your options aren't too great for getting out. Jax has armor + corner damage + faster normals and more overall tools.

Eating a DP might not seem like a big deal, but what are you going to do on wakeup?

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

If that was the defining characteristic of winning a matchup, then Smoke and Cyrax would win every matchup. It's a lot eaiser for Jax to 'touch' Quan, and breakers exist in this game for a reason.

There you go again. How is it easier for jax to "touch" quan. Quan has more mobility and a better advancing string and an acrose screen move to make sure that you don't go barging in.