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Match-up Discussion Jax MU Chart December 2012

LEGEND

YES!
There really isn't a current Jax MU discussion or chart on here so i thought i'd Make one with the help of DaB. Also requested by TomlulsBrady
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Baraka: 6-4

Cyber Sub Zero: 6-4 taken from J360's post on the MU " When it comes to this match up CSZ can match the momentum of jax and force him to respect certain strings as well. But to be honest since jax does limit CSZ parry and dive kick opportunities that would make this match a jax favorable matchup. So it would only be fair to call this a 6-4 in jaxes favor if we arent using decimals. I base this off really only playing cd jr and @EGP_TYRANT at the last NY arena where we played for what seemed like hours lol"

Cyblax: 5-5

Cyrax: 5-5 personally feel its in cyrax's advantage (Slightly) because of his ability to evade the GP mix-up game, Punish wiffs with Death, And has some good Tools for dealing with Jax's wake-ups (including some option select mind games)

Ermac: 5-5 Jax can't zone Ermac, Mac's D4 both evades GP and can lead to a full combo against Jax's Dash punch. Jax is is forced to take risks to get in, risks that are greatly in Mac's favor. Equalizer here is Jax Rushdown against Mac's pokes and high hitbox n of course the Corner

Freddy: 3-7 Jax has nothing going for him in this MU, when you finally do get in Freddy has a slue of options to end your pressure. there are some GP and knockdown setups that can be used as guessing games so you do have a little something there and of course you can use armor to get on top of freddy at times but Meter is hard to come by in this MU.

Jade: 6-4

Johnny Cage: 4-6 i'd honestly mark this as 3.5-6.5 if i could. I don't feel as if its as manageable as other 4-6s but its not as bad as say Sonya or Freddy, 4-6 works i guess
P1 also makes a noticeable difference in the MU with 11F1 going from auto Pressure to guessing game against D1-gotcha and repeated F3's being much easier to interrupt with 123 or F41

Kabal: 4-6 Kuh-Bawl
Whatever

Kano: 7-3 could be better, could be worse. Kano's strings are interruptible by armor and his zoning only does so much. Kano's knockdown setups are also meh against Jax

Kenshi: 4-6 Could be even, Tag DaB if you want an in depth breakdown of the MU, He knows it better than i do. I mainly play it from Kenshi's perspective

Kitana: 5-5

Kung Lao: 3-7 Another MU where Jax has very little going for him, Can't zone, Can't Pressure. Can't reliably build meter or deal with Teleport mix-ups. Dumb

Liu Kang: 5-5 Could be seen in Liu's favor at the highest level, not there yet as more and more options and counters to those options are found. This MU is pretty deep and Depends greatly upon fighting the player and not the character. 5-5 for now but who knows

BtB F413s getting full combo punished by a P1 Liu 213 is annoying as hell

Mileena: 5-5

Nightwolf: 6-4 Changed this from 7-3 to 6-4, Nightwolf has all the tools to deal with Jax's zoning cause of his D4 and Shoulder for dealing with GPs and Reflect for countering Energy wave. Nightwolf still has a larger hitbox though that Jax can abuse and nightwolf's pokes and armor are not very good. the footsie game is somewhat even imo

Noob Saibot: 6-4 Noob's zoning can only do so much. . . once jax is Just outside Sweep distance Noob has to start taking risks to keep Jax out, Blocked clones at this distance Equal anything from a DP punish to a F4-EW or at very least a blockstring (depending on distance) and wiffing a Upknee or Portal in this situation will be met wiff a DP to the face, or noob could go ahead and jump but thats not really a good idea. While these aren't HUGE risks they all still help level out Noobs zoning ADV while Pushing noob to the corner at the same time.

Armor :)

Quan Chi: 6-4 Could be 5-5, Still think Quan's Pokes and footsies are way too ass for his low hitbox to matter

Raiden: 6-4 don't have alot of recent Raiden Experience but DaB says its in Jax's Favor so i'll stick with it

Rain: 5-5 Really don't know, haven't played the MU since the beginning of the year vs Brownie. And alot of new Jax Stuff has been developed since. leaving it at 5-5 for now

Reptile: 5-5 Strong footsie and zoning battle, neither character can really pressure the other, 5-5 possible slight jax favor

Scorpion: 7-3 No reliable way to deal with Jax's zoning. Big hitbox. Jax dominates the footsie game ect

Sektor: 4-6 Jax is somewhat forced to deal with Sektor's zoning and play a footsie game that is in Sektor's adv. Jax's rushdwon is hindered by Sektor's low hitbox but Sektor's lack of quick mid hitting pokes lets Jax maintain some offense while inside sweep distance

Shang Tsung: 6-4 This MU is pretty bad for Shang, I don't think there is anywhere on the screen where shang has advantage. Even when Shang has Jax in pressure the guessing game is in Jax's favor. If not for shangs ability to build meter and SS, i'd say its would be 7-3 Jax ADV

Also another MU where P1 comes into play, as Jax's F4 and 123 string beats out repeated F4-GS Pressure

Sheeva: 7-3

Sonya: 3-7

Sindel: 6-4

Skarlet: 4-6

Smoke: 6-4

Stryker: 6-4

Sub Zero: 6-4
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I will be updating the OP with details whenever i have the time (or motivation : )) to do so
EGP_TYRANT

Does this MU chart really describe a top 10 character?
Discuss
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Not sure about Scorp, nothing hits him in crouch block that wasn't designed to and has it easier than most avoiding the corner, not to mention relatively undesirable punishes for right guesses in the vortex. Honestly the only thing that annoys me about the matchup is dash punch making hellfire whiff.

On paper it's even but I can agree with 4-6.
 

LEGEND

YES!
I like this, be prepared for the A F0xy Grampa discussion about the rain and kano MU being incorrect.
i am, open to opinions on the Rain MU cause i really don't know. Kano has issues though, i don't think its a simple 6-4

Can you explain Sonya vs Jax being 3-7?
I went into NEC thinking it was around 5-5, and had everyone tell me it was actually a bad match-up, so I'm actually very interested in this MU
What is there to explain?
Even the safest of pressure continuing options (D1-Ex ohs) can be full comboed with or without meter. Her hitbox lowers herself under F4(1) so she can full combo the gap with 114. Using D1-gotcha or F4-Gotcha has the same 114 punish scenario. Wiff any ohs and you get DKed, iADK evades GPs. Sonya out footsies him, out damages him, out zones him, builds more meter than him and out armors him

wat cyrax option selects do u speak of?
Something with F2-Air grab, i think there were a few different ones. I've seen them somewhere else and killa_solid did something like that to me before
i don't think they're a big deal but its something
 

Hellion_96

xX_Hellion96_Xx
There is no way in hell Jax loses to Kung Lao 3-7 but only losses to cage 4-6. Jax's low hitbox, faster pokes, and armor that actually hits you makes the matchup better than 3-7. And even tho KL can blow up Jax's best string every time atleast it hits mid and is 8 frames.
 
I am interested in the quan chi MU. I remember CDjr stating that jax loses to him, so what makes the quan chi MU 6-4 instead of 5-5? He doesn't have to break midscreen cause of jax damage being to low which would allow quan chi to hold on to his meter, and he can stop jax from pressuring with f41.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Maan... I think Shang definitely loses to Jax. If he gets in ONCE Shang is dead because he absolutely rapes that large hitbox. You have one frame to poke out with D+3 and landing a D+1 doesn't really matter because Jax's normals are still faster. You can ask Dab about this one. It is flat out dumb how easy it is to win with Jax in this MU.
 

LEGEND

YES!
There is no way in hell Jax loses to Kung Lao 3-7 but only losses to cage 4-6. Jax's low hitbox, faster pokes, and armor that actually hits you makes the matchup better than 3-7. And even tho KL can blow up Jax's best string every time atleast it hits mid and is 8 frames.
Cage has to get close to Jax to win, Lao doesn't

and like i said, i don't believe Jax/Cage is a simple clear cut 4-6
 

LEGEND

YES!
Maan... I think Shang definitely loses to Jax. If he gets in ONCE Shang is dead because he absolutely rapes that large hitbox. You have one frame to poke out with D+3 and landing a D+1 doesn't really matter because Jax's normals are still faster. You can ask Dab about this one. It is flat out dumb how easy it is to win with Jax in this MU.
Blades hits 1 frame gaps all the time, i don't think that the difficulty of poking out of a pressure string should make that big of an impact on a MU

Hell, i get 213 punished for doing repeated F4-GS against his liu if he's P1. Difficulty should not effect a MU chart
 

NKZero

Noob
LETHAL LEGEND I have a question. I heard that if Cage can time his D4 correctly the ground pound will not hit him. Is that true? If so, does it only apply to him?

For the record I agree with Sektor and Sub Zero.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Blades hits 1 frame gaps all the time, i don't think that the difficulty of poking out of a pressure string should make that big of an impact on a MU

Hell, i get 213 punished for doing repeated F4-GS against his liu if he's P1. Difficulty should not effect a MU chart
F+4, 1, 3 has random advantage, which changes the timing. Yes I know this is only supposed to make a difference when you jump out, but it definitely messes you up when you try to poke. I will be MASHING D+3 after I block the string and still get blown up. This isn't the only reason Jax wins either. Shang takes huge risks when he tries to play footsies and zone out Jax. SS? armor. GS's? armor D+4? armor or jump and combo Shang into the corner. Jax also limits Shang's pressure because of his 8 frame low starter and of course, the armor. The only thing that Shang can sort of limit is GP cancels due to the SS and EX GS's. Besides those things, Shang is walking on eggshells in this MU and is just one or two mistakes away from getting locked down and reset in the corner.
 

LEGEND

YES!
LETHAL LEGEND I have a question. I heard that if Cage can time his D4 correctly the ground pound will not hit him. Is that true? If so, does it only apply to him?

For the record I agree with Sektor and Sub Zero.
yes, many other characters can do this including Ermac, Cyrax, Scorpion and Jax himself

F+4, 1, 3 has random advantage, which changes the timing. Yes I know this is only supposed to make a difference when you jump out, but it definitely messes you up when you try to poke. I will be MASHING D+3 after I block the string and still get blown up. This isn't the only reason Jax wins either. Shang takes huge risks when he tries to play footsies and zone out Jax. SS? armor. GS's? armor D+4? armor or jump and combo Shang into the corner. Jax also limits Shang's pressure because of his 8 frame low starter and of course, the armor. The only thing that Shang can sort of limit is GP cancels due to the SS and EX GS's. Besides those things, Shang is walking on eggshells in this MU and is just one or two mistakes away from getting locked down and reset in the corner.
idk, i play more offensive with Shang and use SS more than usual since i play both characters very well.

i'll leave it as a question mark for now. We Will play this MU for sure
 

NKZero

Noob
yes, many other characters can do this including Ermac, Cyrax, Scorpion and Jax himself


idk, i play more offensive with Shang and use SS more than usual since i play both characters very well.

i'll leave it as a question mark for now. We Will play this MU for sure
So it's not every character? Just a select few. How does that impact these characters' MU's vs Jax? I would have thought Cage doing that plus the low hit-box plus having a counter for Jax's armour (EX nut punch) would make this MU worse than 4-6, no?
 

LEGEND

YES!
So it's not every character? Just a select few. How does that impact these characters' MU's vs Jax? I would have thought Cage doing that plus the low hit-box plus having a counter for Jax's armour (EX nut punch) would make this MU worse than 4-6, no?
IDK, Jax still has good options against Cages offense and there are still ways to pressure low hitbox characters. i don't feel absolutely comfortable saying its 3-7

characters that evade GPs do have a good tool there but i can still cancel it and wiff punish the D4 or space them out with Cancels ect. its a guesing game in their favor but a guessing game none the less. They don't completely negate Jax's zoning with just a D4
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
Blades hits 1 frame gaps all the time, i don't think that the difficulty of poking out of a pressure string should make that big of an impact on a MU

Hell, i get 213 punished for doing repeated F4-GS against his liu if he's P1. Difficulty should not effect a MU chart
what does being p1 have to do with that?
 

LEGEND

YES!
so how does Sonya blow up ex Elbow slam???
There is a slight recovery period on wiff that can be punished, i know DK can do it, or you can time a Ex Cartwheel and blow through it

as for D1-Ex OHS, any character with a good forward dash can Dash-Duck through to the other side during the Gap between D1 and OHS. Not sure who all can punish it at that point though
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
i am, open to opinions on the Rain MU cause i really don't know. Kano has issues though, i don't think its a simple 6-4


What is there to explain?
Even the safest of pressure continuing options (D1-Ex ohs) can be full comboed with or without meter. Her hitbox lowers herself under F4(1) so she can full combo the gap with 114. Using D1-gotcha or F4-Gotcha has the same 114 punish scenario. Wiff any ohs and you get DKed, iADK evades GPs. Sonya out footsies him, out damages him, out zones him, builds more meter than him and out armors him


Something with F2-Air grab, i think there were a few different ones. I've seen them somewhere else and killa_solid did something like that to me before
i don't think they're a big deal but its something
oh ok, i'll be sure to ask him about the option selects....then again maybe j360 will know
 

SatsuiYesHadou

Yung Kneecaps
Jax could easily blow up laos teleport anytime imo with just 1 or d1. You could also air grab depending on your reaction time.