Jade General Discussion Thread

[MK9]

Yes punish option suck, was same in beta. B3 is really the only option. I throw a lot, or end strings with bf2. Than throw out d2 if they counter with a high starter

 

[mercureXI]

You guys might be right and she is perfect.

Or I might be right and she has glaring issues (terrible flawless reversal, punish damage that feel like throwing toilet paper at their faces, very unsafe on most of her kit including nitro kick, neutral game where she is supposed to shine but most characters can poke better faster and safer than her, etc)

If you're right we'll have Jades shine during tourneys.
If I am, she will be stomped hard then disappear until she gets fixed a bit.

IMO she is not playing the same game as the rest of the cast. When you screw up bad against Jade, you dont care that much. Thats a huge problem to me, considering how weak she is up close (especially without good reversals).

For now you guys feel she is fine because nobody knows the matchup. I have been playing a friend non stop this week end, I began to lose a lot as soon as he realized most of my kit is zero threat up close (either too slow or having gaps).

He used Liu / Scorpion / Skarket / Noob ... same result every time ... it was especially hard vs Liu that can combo into restand, and Scorpion that can yolo port and only have to be right once while I need to be right twice or more to balance damage.

We'll see soon enough, lets agree to disagree for now. Have a nice week end guys !

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

You guys might be right and she is perfect.

Or I might be right and she has glaring issues (terrible flawless reversal, punish damage that feel like throwing toilet paper at their faces, very unsafe on most of her kit including nitro kick, neutral game where she is supposed to shine but most characters can poke better faster and safer than her, etc)

If you're right we'll have Jades shine during tourneys.
If I am, she will be stomped hard then disappear until she gets fixed a bit.

IMO she is not playing the same game as the rest of the cast. When you screw up bad against Jade, you dont care that much. Thats a huge problem to me, considering how weak she is up close (especially without good reversals).

For now you guys feel she is fine because nobody knows the matchup. I have been playing a friend non stop this week end, I began to lose a lot as soon as he realized most of my kit is zero threat up close (either too slow or having gaps).

He used Liu / Scorpion / Skarket / Noob ... same result every time ... it was especially hard vs Liu that can combo into restand, and Scorpion that can yolo port and only have to be right once while I need to be right twice or more to balance damage.

We'll see soon enough, lets agree to disagree for now. Have a nice week end guys !

There's def some truth to this. I've had multiple games with Jade where I feel like I'm kicking the other person's ass based on sheer number of time's I've punished and countered them, made half the mistakes they've made, and I still lose.
I think once/if they allow more than 3 slots, she'll be awesome.

 

[MK9]

She’s not named to fight up close, d3 has stupid reach. Yes if u d1 and it’s blocked most likely they will have adv. follow d1 with bf2. Train them not to be afraid to counter after d1. Than u can throw, f3, etc. her d1 May be weak but d1 into bf2 isn’t.

 

[MK9]

Any wiff you see amplified shadow kick. And create wiffes, backdash is key. 12 has range, know that range. Throw out 12 and have it fall short, back dash, if they hit a button, shadow kick. She’s all about baiting.

 

[Geoffmeister]

Alright, gonna be serious right now. I've bounced around the cast to check comparative strengths. It is really, really hard to consider Jade weak at this moment. I do not use her anti air glaive as a priority at all. It is just used to throw people off my scent, but she has way too many tools already to deal with jumps.

She has an
air to ground projectile that is safe or can be plus to add a homing one
low projectile to force blocks > jumping
a high projectile to throw off timing and can be amp to catch jumps
a reaction buff that makes her immune to all counter zoning
a fast horizontal move to punish long range jumps and other projectiles
a godlike D2 to remove a lot of air options
best walk back speed
ability to side switch at will when getting backed into the corner

I don't think she's full-blown bad, but issues that no competitive player in the right mind should be worrying about, when looking at the characters that do the same thing as she's attempting to do...

• Air projectiles are common now, "staggering" jumps is not that unique, adding a homing "plus" doesn't mean much, granted its good (as you won't get punished every time) it .. doesn't get you anything though lol (EDIT: actually it does.. )
• Same for low projectiles, no additional properties such as safety or low-profile... what happens when you play someone who does not jump unless needed to?
• throws off timing? both uprang or normal rang, amped, will whiff pretty much anything, I've had it whiff on Crouchblock, they are not viable tools... you seen how slow that second rang comes out? these moves may as well not exist.. and she has PLENTY of those
• I liked b2 a lot at first too, apparently though, many people have long-range highs like that, get more off of it.. some are even mids cause why not, it is nothing amazing
• yep the D2 is great, big whoop though when everyone else gets to combo off their AA's
• walk back speed is indeed nice to have... now with Jades moves being so slow, positioning-wise she'll have to overextend anyway.. so.. that cancels eachother out nicely.. she isn't doing anything other characters cant with b2 whiff punishing... no life-lead and this advantage goes out the window against competent players...

Who specifically shuts down Jade's zoning with a teleport? The range Jade wants to play is within the reach of her normals. She is not a fullscreen zoner, where teleports will eat her alive if she tries to vs those specific characters. You can't just throw a teleport out and all is well.

Up close, she doesn't have to play unsafe, if her goal is to get back to what she does best. Understanding where you can use her 9f d4 during the poke game, make use of her great backwalk to get some space, take your throws where you can, and so on definitely helps with using her up close. Again, she's not meant to be strong there, so why not play to get out of the situation?

I have been forced to use d4 as her ONLY poking tool... she gets nothing off of it. b1 is non-existant, F2 is too slow and will get whiff punished, there's obviously no time to go in for a b3/throw.. So what's the plan? 3% into back away?

As in regards to Liu, (both variations) he actually outzones Jade. Any and all projectiles she might whip out are REACTABLE with a dragon kick (good thing Liu also gets a teleport-mixup... different topic), and that hits full-screen anyway, effectively making Jades signature move look like a cruel joke lol... Liu lacking range to whiff-punish is ... simply not true... he does fine. All of this applies to the teleporter characters as well.. except Jade loses even more tools there.

I'm seriously dumbfounded here, a launch-punishable mid-poke and every single special she gets to confirm INTO DEATH every time.. but at a specific range she gets to use moves? Which would those be because nothing is better than -13? This character is fundamentally screwed. (I know I'll get called a downplayer for this) her moveset is trash, for stated reasons and more that I've covered already.. what a damn shame too. Playing all defense with that lacking punishment ... gimme something to so I can understand that? ..

Agree to disagree, no offense (no pun intended) and all that.. but this fustrating as all hell

 

[Crimea]

It's funny how Kitana mournful had literally all the better versions of Jade's moves.

 

[TaserFace007]

I took her zoning variation and switched out the up glaive for the pole vault and the combination works really well.
I never got much use out of the up glaive and the pole vault seems to fill a hole in her move set.

 

[mercureXI]

Problem is : you cant use custom variations in ranked or tourneys

 

[TaserFace007]

Problem is : you cant use custom variations in ranked or tourneys

Not an actual problem and I don’t think that decision is going to last long anyways.

 

[Geoffmeister]

I MAY have underestimated how plus you can get with her AirRang. I MAY have.

On Block Jade pretty much gets a free B1... That's it. B1 is preeetty bad but it'll stuff anything (parries, 11frame reversals, 7fr pokes), except Fatal Blows. After a JiK, AirRang will also jail, and if hit can combo into a good 25%. Same goes for the corner, but even better; she can use her b343 and confirm or pressure from there.

Instant AirRang gets +10 to +14
Jump-in Kick into AirRang gets +17

Additionally... Her JiP2 (can only hit on standing opponents) is +17 on Block, +35 on hit

 

[ShadyHeart]

Whenever I win, I feel like it's because my opponent let me get away with shit that they really shouldn't. She has some strong moves but I feel like they don't compliment each other well enough. I can see her only getting worse as time goes on honestly. She doesn't really have any tech to find...

I've noticed certain moves (some custom) shut down her ranged game completely and she just feels neutered in those matchups.

 

[THTB]

I MAY have underestimated how plus you can get with her AirRang. I MAY have.

On Block Jade pretty much gets a free B1... That's it. B1 is preeetty bad but it'll stuff anything (parries, 11frame reversals, 7fr pokes), except Fatal Blows. After a JiK, AirRang will also jail, and if hit can combo into a good 25%. Same goes for the corner, but even better; she can use her b343 and confirm or pressure from there.

Instant AirRang gets +10 to +14
Jump-in Kick into AirRang gets +17

Additionally... Her JiP2 (can only hit on standing opponents) is +17 on Block, +35 on hit

And that's just factoring in what the move does on block and hit. Other positives include that it's a downward air projectile and that her momentum is completely stopped. AAing her is not as easy as scout the jump and react. This opens up a lot of approaching from her, and greatly improves her screen control.

For what it does for her kit, it's effective.

 

[GLoRToR]

I MAY have underestimated how plus you can get with her AirRang. I MAY have.

On Block Jade pretty much gets a free B1... That's it. B1 is preeetty bad but it'll stuff anything (parries, 11frame reversals, 7fr pokes), except Fatal Blows. After a JiK, AirRang will also jail, and if hit can combo into a good 25%. Same goes for the corner, but even better; she can use her b343 and confirm or pressure from there.

Instant AirRang gets +10 to +14
Jump-in Kick into AirRang gets +17

Additionally... Her JiP2 (can only hit on standing opponents) is +17 on Block, +35 on hit

What's the combo for that?

 

[THTB]

What's the combo for that?

I'll test in a sec, but I'm sure you can get dash d1, b2 xx nitro.

 

[Geoffmeister]

@THTB @GLoRToR

Works on females, works if opponent is crouching:

MIDSCREEN:
JiK AirRangEX dash b2 nitro (278 / EX310)
WALL:
JiK AirRangEX 21 b2 nitro (303 / EX 330)
JiK AirRangEX 21 d1 d2 (311)
JiK AirRangEX b2 Fatal (440)

Cross-up JiK (opponent standing) she can get a little more damage or a Fatal Blow midscreen:

I found generally with Jade (conversions, longer range hits, female hitboxes) you wanna convert with b2. It's the only option here and won't work without proper spacing.

 

[TheGabStandard]

Hey guys,

So from looking into Jacqui/Jade MU I found that Jacqui can use d3 or d4 to low profile Jade's wakeup u3 and punish it despite it being a mid. You might already be aware of it or it may/may not be a big deal but I figure I should share it anyway incase you want to look at the potential of other characters doing the same thing.

 

[THTB]

Hey guys,

So from looking into Jacqui/Jade MU I found that Jacqui can use d3 or d4 to low profile Jade's wakeup u3 and punish it despite it being a mid. You might already be aware of it or it may/may not be a big deal but I figure I should share it anyway incase you want to look at the potential of other characters doing the same thing.

I think a few other gu3s are like that, with quite a few characters low profiling them. It's a good option.

 

[THTB]

Yeah, EX air glaive being plus is pretty good for Jade. Her approach gets really rough to deal with, and because whiff canceling air normals is still in, she can do a lot of baiting with it. Air glaive in general is just strong at space control. At the ranges f2 come into play, you can make them as low as -6 on block with good pushback. EX getting into double digits allows you to start checking whatever advances come your way. Feels like, for V1, about f2 range is the most ideal and gives her the most viable options to work with.

 

[THTB]

Here's 3 matches from my set with Ashenar. Just a bit of in-match application of some concepts. Do note this was Ashenar's first set vs a Jade, as was mine vs a Geras, so there's not a whole lot to take away from the matchup itself, on top of there being a large amount of player-specific conditioning at this point. I just wanted to get a small demo of some of my playstyle ideas for comparison and experimentation with the rest of you guys.

 

[AK Harold]

@THTB nice stuff. I play way lamer haha. But yeah that's basically it. He basically got his options stripped from him because of air glaives. I abuse d4 a lot more to enforce blocking. Also I noticed you don't use neutral jump very much. It gives you a slightly safer wall to whiff attack then glaive.

How scary is geras body splash? I notice you opted to block instead of anti air. Thanks for the vids.

Extra tidbit, you can shadow Jax ground pound lol.

 

[Geoffmeister]

Well damn, this changes everything I thought I knew about her... Having that reliable offensive tool really makes up for her risky normals. And plenty of ways for her to hurt / set-up wake-ups ... her Standing Rang (normal/amped) on range2-3 get some crazy plus-frames as well...

I am filing the Pole Vault agenda for now. Won't touch it for a few weeks.

@THTB Those wake-up AA 1's are awesome btw

 

[THTB]

@THTB nice stuff. I play way lamer haha. But yeah that's basically it. He basically got his options stripped from him because of air glaives. I abuse d4 a lot more to enforce blocking. Also I noticed you don't use neutral jump very much. It gives you a slightly safer wall to whiff attack then glaive.

How scary is geras body splash? I notice you opted to block instead of anti air. Thanks for the vids.

Extra tidbit, you can shadow Jax ground pound lol.

Yeah there's a few matches where I'm just playing the lame game just about all the way, but I also wanted to play more of a wall-off style the more I got used to some of the ideas I had. I labbed a lot of it afterwards, and the straight glaive stuff can be punished unless it's off of max range f2 by jumping over right after you block the normal (or in Geras's case, reversal sand trap). Time will tell if people catch on and begin reacting, but for now it's a complete read for the most part. Everything else definitely works well with conditioning.

I should definitely use neutral jump more. I use d4 a fair amount, usually, but I could always use more.

The splash isn't too bad...I'm just not great at AAs lol. That'll be worked on, though.

 

[GLoRToR]

the straight glaive stuff can be punished unless it's off of max range f2 by jumping over right after you block the normal

This is what I mean when I say she needs safety.

 

[THTB]

This is what I mean when I say she needs safety.

Yeah it's punishable, but you have to jump well before the glaive starts going straight, which is either a good read or young savage reactions. Off specific strings that are safe anyway, this is usable.