Jade General Discussion Thread

[John_NX]

This character is very strange. She's an anti-zoning zoner but she doesn't really do anything at long range. Unlike MKX, you won't gain meter if your opponent just wants to crouch forever. Her low projectile seems mandatory for this reason. She isn't very good up close either, so it's like the only thing she really does is whiff punish and try to catch you pressing buttons with her range. F21 is too slow and unsafe.

About her abilities, there are 2 that feel mandatory and a lot that feel like garbage. Low projectile gives her a couple mixups and something to stop the opponent from just crouching every projectile. The additional/improved normals offer a great sweep and her B2 string looks promising even with the gaps. All of her other specials seem either "eh" or "why would I ever want this?". Pole vault and up/air glaive seem like the only meaningful choices.

Shadow kick being so much worse than mk9 feels bad. Where's my staff slam at? Finally, her uppercut is godlike.

I completely agree with everything you said. Her d2 is godlike but overall she is OK, not the best or the worst. Thing is that when a good player figures out the MU, life becomes hell and teleports are a nightmare for her.
By the way, what is the best way to punish people? So far I'm doing 21 into shadow kick or butterfly but the damage is low

 

[Geoffmeister]

I know its early to be talking about this but I feel some questionable (???) decisions were made for ED?

Some redeeming qualities:
Good space control, whiff punishers and oki. Ive had only Frost or teleport-chars deal with her zoning effectively. Great AA with d2.

In general, she's very unsafe.. on everything.
B2 wiggle stick -13
B12 mid-overhead -19
F41 midmid -14
F21 28fr overhead-overhead -18
Any specials are -15 at best so.. she dies using any of these moves. She can mix with a low-special but she's looking at launch punish either way. I guess the idea is to get her to special cancel into a parry (which works against throws) to mitigate the risk a bit, I dont think thats a solid strategy though.

Cant really dish out any damage either, with 185ish for one bar but thats still tolerable.

Fast (short) 11fr mid-string that leads to plus with a gap in it, shes pretty much restricted to just this move and her safe low option (f343).

Because of her versatility I get she cant be excelling in all these areas but I still wanna bring up

• b12, mid-overhead has a gap in it and ends in knockdown. Starts at 15fr
• f21 is a 28fr overhead launcher, also a gap

I mention theres a gap not because I expect people to deal with this situation by flawless blocking but because the mix can be entirely evaded by jumping forward (into a full launch combo lol). Putting it simple: you guess between JiP or block high to win a full launch versus losing a knockdown.
Both UpRang or RazorRang will either whiff or leave a gap for a d2 counter, unusable.
Am I missing something or is this lowkey the worst mixup in the history of mixups? And if its not supposed to even be a mixup.. why is it so damn slow?

Also on a side note 2 more things:
Her Shadow Kick recovers too slowly for what it is.. she cant use it as a distance closer. Its a high on top of being -22 (-18 amped). Just.. why?

And... her flawless block u2 will whiff on common moves it's actually a joke.

Tl;dr: shes basically a weaker Kabal/Liu

 

[Arqwart]

This character is very strange. She's an anti-zoning zoner but she doesn't really do anything at long range. Unlike MKX, you won't gain meter if your opponent just wants to crouch forever. Her low projectile seems mandatory for this reason. She isn't very good up close either, so it's like the only thing she really does is whiff punish and try to catch you pressing buttons with her range. F21 is too slow and unsafe.

She's a midrange character. Glow isn't meant to put her into a zoning war, but instead to allow her safer progression from full screen to her comfortable area at midscreen. As for her close range power, it varies depending on the matchup because, again, she's meant to be played at midrange in neutral. Much of her close range gameplan depends on B343, F343, D4, D1, Parry, Butterfly, and grabs. Her range can be extremely oppressive in the corner so it's in your best interest to manage the neutral midrange to keep the opponent backing up, throw in some close pressure that walks them even further, and begin locking them down from ALL wakeup options by utilizing your range once they get to the corner. D2, D4, B2, Parry, B343, F21, B12, low projectile, F343, string staggers, Butterfly combos, jump attacks, empty airs, grab -- Jade has a ton of options to completely shut out the opponent's entire gameplan once they're locked in the corner. With her walk speed as fast as it is, you get to just sit and wait at range until you see their wakeup choice then respond accordingly with your desired option.

About her abilities, there are 2 that feel mandatory and a lot that feel like garbage. Low projectile gives her a couple mixups and something to stop the opponent from just crouching every projectile. The additional/improved normals offer a great sweep and her B2 string looks promising even with the gaps. All of her other specials seem either "eh" or "why would I ever want this?". Pole vault and up/air glaive seem like the only meaningful choices.

Shadow kick being so much worse than mk9 feels bad. Where's my staff slam at? Finally, her uppercut is godlike.

Now this I can't offer much argument against as I keep coming back to her ranked variations being so subpar. This ties back to my post in the "Day 1 hot take" thread where I noted that each character feels like they're somewhat incomplete, desperately needing one more base move from their variation skills. Jade NEEDS her Pole Vault, Air Glaive, or Up Glaive as part of her base kit (preferably Pole Vault).

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

She's a midrange character. Glow isn't meant to put her into a zoning war, but instead to allow her safer progression from full screen to her comfortable area at midscreen. As for her close range power, it varies depending on the matchup because, again, she's meant to be played at midrange in neutral. Much of her close range gameplan depends on B343, F343, D4, D1, Parry, Butterfly, and grabs. Her range can be extremely oppressive in the corner so it's in your best interest to manage the neutral midrange to keep the opponent backing up, throw in some close pressure that walks them even further, and begin locking them down from ALL wakeup options by utilizing your range once they get to the corner. D2, D4, B2, Parry, B343, F21, B12, low projectile, F343, string staggers, Butterfly combos, jump attacks, empty airs, grab -- Jade has a ton of options to completely shut out the opponent's entire gameplan once they're locked in the corner. With her walk speed as fast as it is, you get to just sit and wait at range until you see their wakeup choice then respond accordingly with your desired option.


Now this I can't offer much argument against as I keep coming back to her ranked variations being so subpar. This ties back to my post in the "Day 1 hot take" thread where I noted that each character feels like they're somewhat incomplete, desperately needing one more base move from their variation skills. Jade NEEDS her Pole Vault, Air Glaive, or Up Glaive as part of her base kit (preferably Pole Vault).

The air gave amplify, together with well timed jumps and spacing can make life hell for people. Its like kitanas float where it throws people's muscle memory off. Haven't had much exp with teleporters yet tho.

 

[Arqwart]

The air gave amplify, together with well timed jumps and spacing can make life hell for people. Its like kitanas float where it throws people's muscle memory off. Haven't had much exp with teleporters yet tho.

Air Glaive is extremely potent, especially since its amplified shot's curve goes full screen. Also, her glaives float people much more on hit against airborne than they did in the beta which allows for Jade to easily follow up glaives on jumping opponents with a nice nitro kick.

As for teleporters, your mileage may vary. Attack teleports that are full combo punishable (Scorpion, Noob, etc.) are simple to bait and deal with. Movement teleports like Raiden, however, can be a nightmare. They drastically change up your gameplan as you can't risk glaives / low projectile very often anymore. Also, the slow roll to the corner is much more difficult to manage. These matchups tend to become almost exclusively neutral focused and avoiding being cornered.

 

[Parasurama]

Air Glaive is extremely potent, especially since its amplified shot's curve goes full screen. Also, her glaives float people much more on hit against airborne than they did in the beta which allows for Jade to easily follow up glaives on jumping opponents with a nice nitro kick.

As for teleporters, your mileage may vary. Attack teleports that are full combo punishable (Scorpion, Noob, etc.) are simple to bait and deal with. Movement teleports like Raiden, however, can be a nightmare. They drastically change up your gameplan as you can't risk glaives / low projectile very often anymore. Also, the slow roll to the corner is much more difficult to manage. These matchups tend to become almost exclusively neutral focused and avoiding being cornered.

I play her like this. What is your go to punish?

 

[Kitana Fan]

I love Jade in this game (besides her outfits). This is coming from someone who didn't use her much in previous games.

 

[klabuster]

jade feels so unrewarding to play i feel like i only win because people suck dodging projectiles :/
all i do is the overhead f21 combo into the ex kick because there arent any other good ones? (if there are please post some good strings i can do regularly)
spam projectiles and zone them out with the staff b2, punish with the ex kick
and i win some games and i lose some games.

 

[Hellotit]

Pretty much the same I just got called noob and handicap not that long ago cuz I was “spamming”. While this guy was pulling off some insane combos. Lol what does he expect my character can’t pull off combos like that :/. I feel like jade is one of those high risk characters but she’s missing some things.

 

[AK Harold]

So Jade is strong hope that helps lol.
Really doing well with her against most the cast.
Quick questions
What characters have air to ground projectiles that are also plus? That move alone is about as good as any of the variations out there.

Why does she need pole vault base? I'm not sure what it adds that is so necessary.

Her walk speed is very good and she gets to use the screen always. She can side switch almost at will.

Her normals are damn good.

I don't try to land hits with her unless they jump or are walk happy. Even then I'm just trying to constantly make them block and reserve meter for flawless reversals once they do get in range.

She is fun but ultra lame which I love. Keep on swinging, I didn't plan to at her but after rolling through the cast I think she will stay on my roster

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Pretty much the same I just got called noob and handicap not that long ago cuz I was “spamming”. While this guy was pulling off some insane combos. Lol what does he expect my character can’t pull off combos like that :/. I feel like jade is one of those high risk characters but she’s missing some things.

I don't mind being called a spammer, I think it's hilarious and fun pegging people with low projectile, jump amplified projectile, then whacking them with the F2 when they try to close in. I'll keep playing her until it gets boring.


IOn another note I think one aspect of her game that will get developed with more playtime is using the taunt seamlessly as a string finisher.

 

[Arqwart]

Why does she need pole vault base? I'm not sure what it adds that is so necessary.

It's less a matter of "need" and more "this would help her across the board in every aspect."

1: It would help her projectile variation have a gap closer and another close range / combo option.
2: It would free up a slot on her second variation so that it would actually potentially be worth picking.
3: It would help literally all custom variations (and any future new tournament variations) by not having to waste a slot on it.

The general concepts here can be applied to just about every character because of how barebones many characters' base kits feel, especially in conjunction with the generally poorly-crafted tournament variations.

Anyway, popping in to say I'm still going strong with Jade. Been popping in and out of XBLive's ranked top 10 as her, though I feel that predominantly has to do with the lack of MU knowledge on other players' parts. Her simplicity is oddly exciting to take advantage of and feels super rewarding. I will say that the Cetrion matchup is NOT as in Jade's favor as everyone thinks.

 

[Geoffmeister]

Pole vault, air projectile and/or Ground spark/and or the strings would be a preferred combo.

100%
Pole Vault actually makes both b1 and f2 usable tools. Seems too vital to her moveset.

 

[mercureXI]

100% agree about Pole Vault being needed in her base kit unless they tweak her frame data.

I had to create like 4 or 5 variations for all characters to even fit all the custom moves ... at that point, it would be best to add moves to the base kit for most of them.

No one really wants to play a character stripped of its moveset and have it split into 5 versions. Not to mention the matchup nightmare that starts from here (you dont even have the variation used by your opponent showing up during loading screens, so better not blink on the character select screen lol)

 

[THTB]

I don't think pole vault is a necessity. Not in the zoning variation. My impression is that the intent of that variation is to up her screen control presence as a whole, while the pole vault variation is designed to be more about being generally better up close. That's not a problem, IMO.

Also, on the subject of her safety, I've been looking through who is punishing her unsafe options when spaced. b1 stuff is generally the least safe, since the range isn't much to work with for the frames, and I've found that b12 at the max range of the second hit is the best way to use that string. Possibly a decent check to advancing characters. f2 is very slow, but the options off of it with spacing have a lot of room for being very pretty safe vs most characters if they block the whole thing. There's definitely holes in each option for both normals, such as jumping out of them in-between or being interrupt/flawless block fodder. But the answers are generally different, and there's no guarantee that a specific character can even punish certain options because of spacing. b2 is a high and -13, but it is not meant to be used anytime, anyway. It's generally a -11 ranged punisher, as well as a whiff punish on standing normals and far-range anti air. Maybe the occasional block check.

She's very much designed to be a midrange character, with how those normals work. Makes her pretty tough to play (not in the "she's bad" way, but moreso the "gotta think" way.

 

[Geoffmeister]

@THTB you know, you're making sense.. I just dont fully agree.

The drawback from having this zoning presence reflects in her pressure and that looks like a conscious thought-out decision. Id be happy with that as is, if it wasn't for the fact there's characters that DO get both. Not to be discussing tiers or tournament viability week 1 but the only reason to pick Jade over her similar and superior alternatives would be her Dodging Shadows. I don't think that tool outweighs tools that Liu, Kabal or even goddamn Subzero possess, but their options cover Jades', and do a better job at it.

Guess we'll have to roll with it but b12 stays an unusable tool.. you wanna space that move so only the second hit connects, you're looking at long whiff recovery that'll get launched by quite a few characters.

I like characters that make you "think", its just not gonna do competitive players any favors picking Jade .. but hey, would love to be proven wrong.

 

[mercureXI]

That's a lot of hoops to jump through for a character that has subpar overall damage and mixup options, and with zoning tools that aren't even that great (for example, Liu is a close range monster, his zoning tools are a lot better while having a teleport ... and KBs that he can reliably use during a match).

I dont think Jade is trash tier, but I dont understand the reason behind her low damage and her weak punish options.

1 teleport from Scorpion usually ends up doing 40%+ damage (and its not even safe to punish a non mb teleport in case the 2nd hit is coming), and I can only punish that for half that damage with Jade.

Either they improve the antiair glaive to justify her spot as a zoning character (right now its a move you throw randomly, you cant react to a jump) or they pump up the damage a bit by making 124 a real launcher.

I don't think being able to punish yolo BS for 30%+ would make her OP.

 

[AK Harold]

Alright, gonna be serious right now. I've bounced around the cast to check comparative strengths. It is really, really hard to consider Jade weak at this moment. I do not use her anti air glaive as a priority at all. It is just used to throw people off my scent, but she has way too many tools already to deal with jumps.

She has an
air to ground projectile that is safe or can be plus to add a homing one
low projectile to force blocks > jumping
a high projectile to throw off timing and can be amp to catch jumps
a reaction buff that makes her immune to all counter zoning
a fast horizontal move to punish long range jumps and other projectiles
a godlike D2 to remove a lot of air options
best walk back speed
ability to side switch at will when getting backed into the corner

WHO has better zoning? What more do you want here? If there is maybe 1 or 2 characters possibly better explain and how well does that character do vs Jade to discuss match ups. Are we even naming characters that can beat Jade? There is a known roster now, break it down. How many match ups do you think she wins/loses/tie so we can get a realistic view of her play?

The game itself relies heavily on player over character right now since it is quite new. I would not undersell anyone on the roster right now. It will only set you back later.

 

[THTB]

That's a lot of hoops to jump through for a character that has subpar overall damage and mixup options, and with zoning tools that aren't even that great (for example, Liu is a close range monster, his zoning tools are a lot better while having a teleport ... and KBs that he can reliably use during a match).

I dont think Jade is trash tier, but I dont understand the reason behind her low damage and her weak punish options.

1 teleport from Scorpion usually ends up doing 40%+ damage (and its not even safe to punish a non mb teleport in case the 2nd hit is coming), and I can only punish that for half that damage with Jade.

Either they improve the antiair glaive to justify her spot as a zoning character (right now its a move you throw randomly, you cant react to a jump) or they pump up the damage a bit by making 124 a real launcher.

I don't think being able to punish yolo BS for 30%+ would make her OP.

There's way too much emphasis on her mixups. That is not at all where you should be focusing on this character. Does she have some? Yes. Are they going to win matches? Not at all.

I do not think Liu's zoning is better. More straightforward in application, yes, but not necessarily better. Liu does not have the option to jump and alter his trajectory with a downward projectile that can be made very plus. He does not have the luxury of buttons that have range like Jade does. He does not have a d2 on the level of Jade. He does not punish sweep range moves as well as she does, while also using said option to provide a secondary anti air. He does not render himself immune to projectiles.

Scorpion, IMO, is definitely a tougher matchup for her. He preys on one of her main weaknesses well, and is very strong against what she wants to do. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Upglaive has limited neutral use, but the only fix to that would be to make it way faster, or allow you to aim it. Not against that, but for now, it's pretty useful as filler for AA combos.

I don't think she'd be OP with more damage, either, and would make matchups that are largely difficult due to damage disparity much less of an issue. Right now, I'm not bothered by it, though, is all. It was the intent with her design, so I'm just trying to find ways to play around what she has and doesn't have, and see where she ends up. Who really knows. In the beta, she was considered the worst at first, until people got more acclimated to her. Just need more time to really form an opinion on what she needs.

 

[THTB]

Alright, gonna be serious right now. I've bounced around the cast to check comparative strengths. It is really, really hard to consider Jade weak at this moment. I do not use her anti air glaive as a priority at all. It is just used to throw people off my scent, but she has way too many tools already to deal with jumps.

She has an
air to ground projectile that is safe or can be plus to add a homing one
low projectile to force blocks > jumping
a high projectile to throw off timing and can be amp to catch jumps
a reaction buff that makes her immune to all counter zoning
a fast horizontal move to punish long range jumps and other projectiles
a godlike D2 to remove a lot of air options
best walk back speed
ability to side switch at will when getting backed into the corner

WHO has better zoning? What more do you want here? If there is maybe 1 or 2 characters possibly better explain and how well does that character do vs Jade to discuss match ups. Are we even naming characters that can beat Jade? There is a known roster now, break it down. How many match ups do you think she wins/loses/tie so we can get a realistic view of her play?

The game itself relies heavily on player over character right now since it is quite new. I would not undersell anyone on the roster right now. It will only set you back later.

Exactly my feelings.

 

[mercureXI]

Most of these strengths completely disappear as soon as you face someone that can use a teleport or can shutdown zoning. And thats most of the cast in mk11.

That's when her unsafe close range, lack of damage on punish options, her very bad flawless block reversal etc ... appear and you feel that "ok zoning" is not enough to compete in mk11.

Again : not terrible but theres room for a better Jade without breaking her at all. Thats my point here.

 

[THTB]

Most of these strengths completely disappear as soon as you face someone that can use a teleport or can shutdown zoning. And thats most of the cast in mk11.

That's when her unsafe close range, lack of damage on punish options, her very bad flawless block reversal etc ... appear and you feel that "ok zoning" is not enough to compete in mk11.

Again : not terrible but theres room for a better Jade without breaking her at all. Thats my point here.

Who specifically shuts down Jade's zoning with a teleport? The range Jade wants to play is within the reach of her normals. She is not a fullscreen zoner, where teleports will eat her alive if she tries to vs those specific characters. You can't just throw a teleport out and all is well.

Up close, she doesn't have to play unsafe, if her goal is to get back to what she does best. Understanding where you can use her 9f d4 during the poke game, make use of her great backwalk to get some space, take your throws where you can, and so on definitely helps with using her up close. Again, she's not meant to be strong there, so why not play to get out of the situation?

 

[AK Harold]

You are taking the situation the wrong way. They are forced to teleport or respect and walk. Scorpion is able to react vs most projectiles but is very unsafe. Liu Kang has to charge up first and you can react D1 all options. Lao has to preemptively port and can be hit out as well. Skarlet teleport is zero sum with chance to fail. Noob has to preemptively or have the jump version both are hard punished. Raidens is probably the best solid option with the meter mix up. Cetrion I have no idea how good hers is. Any other teleport to consider? Also many of these ports use a harder variation to play against Jade.

 

[MK9]

She is perfect, you can throw projectiles at her, she can check u out side sweep range, with 3 different moves. You can’t jump at here.

Where does she need to be better without making her over powered?

 

[Bronzefist]

My main complaint is that her punish options and krushing blows are trash. The Scorpion matchup is giving me fits, since his TP is so fast and he can meter burn it to catch my punish. Even if I punish it, the damage she puts out is ass, so it's not a deterrent to Scorp to keep teleporting.